An Alternate History To F1

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I like to think what would happen if “x” didn’t happen.

So, had Pironi not had his accident would he have won in 1982?

What if Turbos were never a thing?

Toyota winning a race? Etc.

Reply 2

first suggestion I have is how the driver's championships would look if none of the existing world champions were in F1. Here is my list:

1950: 1) Luigi Fagioli, 2) Lous Rosier, 3) Johnnie Parsons
1951: 1) Jose Froilan Gonzalez, 2) Luigi Villoresi, 3) Piero Taruffi
1952: 1) Pierro Taruffi, 2) Rudi Fischer, 3) Robert Manzon
1953: 1) Luigi Villoresi, 2) Jose Froilian Gonzalez, 3) Bill Vukovich
1954: 1) Maurice Trintignant, 2) Karl Kling, 3) Bill Vukovich
1955: 1) Stirling Moss, 2) Eugenio Castellotti, 3) Maurice Trintignant
1956: 1) Stirling Moss, 2) Peter Collins, 3) John Behra
1957: 1) Stirling Moss, 2) Luigi Musso, 3) Tony Brooks
1958: 1) Stirling Moss, 2) Tony Brooks, 3) Roy Salvadori
1959: 1) Tony Brooks, 2) Stirling Moss, 3)Maurice Trintignant
1960: 1) Bruce Mclaren, 2) Stirling Moss, 3) Innes Ireland
1961: 1) Wolfgang von Trips, 2) Stirling Moss, 3) Dan Gurney
1962: 1) Bruce Mclaren, 2) Dan Gurney, 3) Tony Maggs
1963: 1) Richie Ginther, 2) Dan Gurney, 3) Bruce Mclaren
1964: 1) Lorenzo Bandini, 2) Richie Ginther, 3) Dan Gurney
1965: 1) Dan Gurney, 2) Lorenzo Bandini, 3) Richie Ginther
1966: 1) Mike Parkes, 2) Lorenzo Bandini 3) Ludovico Scariotti
1967: 1) Chris Amon, 2) Pedro Rodriguez, 3) Dan Gurney
1968: 1) Jacky Ickx, 2) Bruce Mclaren, 3) Pedro Rodriguez
1969: 1) Jacky Ickx, 2) Bruce Mclaren, 3) Jean-Pierre Beltoise
1970: 1) Jacky Ickx, 2) Clay Regazzoni, 3) Pedro Rodriguez
1971: 1) Ronnie Peterson, 2) Francois Cevert, 3) Jacky Ickx
1972: 1) Jacky Ickx, 2) Peter Revson, 3) Francois Cevert
1973: 1) Ronnie Peterson, 2) Francois Cevert, 3) Peter Revson
1974: 1) Clay Regazzoni, 2) Ronnie Peterson, 3) Carlos Reutemann
1975: 1) Carlos Reutemann, 2) Clay Regazzoni, 3) Carlos Pace
1976: 1) Patrick Depaillier, 2) Clay Regazzoni, 3) John Watson
1977: 1) Carlos Reutemann, 2) Jochen Mass, 3) Gunnar Nilsson
1978: 1) Ronnie Peterson, 2) Carlos Reutemman, 3) Patrick Depailler,
1979: 1) Gilles Villenueve, 2) Jacques Lafitte, 3) Clay Regazzoni
1980: 1) Carlos Reutemann, 2) Jacques Lafitte, 3) Didier Pironi
1981: 1) Carlos Reutemann, 2) Jacques Lafitte, 3) John Watson
1982: 1) Didier Pironi, 2) John Watson, 3) Rene Arnoux
1983: 1) Rene Arnoux, 2) Patrick Tambay, 3) John Watson
1984: 1) Elio de Angelis, 2) Michelle Alboreto, 3) Rene Arnoux
1985: 1) Michele Alboreto, 2) Elio de Angelis, 3) Stefan Johansson
1986: 1) Stefan Johansson, 2) Gerhard Berger, 3) Jacques Lafitte
1987: 1) Gerhard Berger, 2) Stefan Johansson, 3) Michele Alboreto
1988: 1) Gerhard Berger, 2) Thierry Boutsen, 3) Michelle Alboreto
1989: 1) Riccardo Patrese, 2) Thierry Boutsen, 3) Alessandro Nannini
1990: 1) Gerhard Berger, 2) Thierry Boutsen, 3) Riccardo Patrese
1991: 1) Riccardo Patrese, 2) Gerhard Berger, 3) Jean Alesi
1992: 1) Riccardo Patrese, 2) Gerhard Berger, 3) Martin Brundle
1993: 1) Riccardo Patrese, 2) Jean Alesi, 3) Martin Brundle
1994: 1) Gerhard Berger, 2) Jean Alesi, 3) Rubens Barrichello
1995: 1) David Coulthard, 2) Johnny Herbert, 3) Jean Alesi
1996: 1) Jean Alesi, 2) Gerhard Berger, 3) David Coulthard
1997: 1) Heinz-Harald Frentzen, 2) David Coulthard, 3) Jean Alesi
1998: 1) David Coulthard, 2) Eddie Irvine, 3) Heinz-Harald Frentzen
1999: 1) Eddie Irvine, 2) Heinz-Harald Frentzen, 2) David Coulthard
2000: 1) David Coulthard, 2) Rubens Barichello, 3) Ralf Schumacher
2001: 1) David Coulthard, 2) Rubens Barichello, 3) Ralf Schumacher
2002: 1) Rubens Barrichello, 2) Juan Pablo Montoya, 3) Ralf Schumacher
2003: 1) Juan Pablo Montoya, 2) Rubens Barichello, 3) Ralf Schumacher
2004: 1) Rubens Barichello, 2) Juan Pablo Montoya, 3) Jarno Trulli
2005: 1) Juan Pablo Montoya, 2) Giancarlo Fisichella, 3) Ralf Schumacher
2006: 1) Felipe Massa, 2) Giancarlo Fisichella, 3) Rubens Barichello
2007: 1) Felipe Massa, 2) Nick Heidfeld, 3) Robert Kubica
2008: 1) Felipe Massa, 2) Robert Kubica, 3) Nick Heidfeld
2009: 1) Rubens Barichello, 2) Mark Webber, 3) Jarno Trulli
2010: 1) Mark Webber, 2) Felipe Massa, 3) Robert Kubica
2011: 1) Mark Webber, 2) Felipe Massa, 3) Adrian Sutil
2012: 1) Mark Webber, 2) Felipe Massa, 3) Romain Grosjean
2013: 1) Mark Webber, 2) Romain Grosjean, 3) Felipe Massa
2014: 1) Daniel Ricciardo, 2) Felipe Massa, 3) Nico Hulkenberg
2015: 1) Valtteri Bottas, 2) Felipe Massa, 3) Daniil Kvyat
2016: 1) Daniel Ricciardo, 2) Max Verstappen, 3) Sergio Perez
2017: 1) Valtteri Bottas, 2) Daniel Ricciardo, 3) Max Verstappen
2018: 1) Max Verstappen, 2) Valterri Bottas, 3) Daniel Ricciardo
2019: 1) Valtteri Bottas, 2) Max Verstappen, 3) Charles Leclerc

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 3

Original post by Andrew97

I like to think what would happen if “x” didn’t happen.

So, had Pironi not had his accident would he have won in 1982?

What if Turbos were never a thing?

Toyota winning a race? Etc.

yup, so i did an example above: what if the world champions never existed. I found it pretty interesting to see how some drivers (e.g. dan gurney) could have accomplished a lot more with better machinery, whereas others just lucked int ohaving a good car

Based on my crude analysis: Moss would be a 4 time champion, Bruce Mclaren would be a 2 time champ, Jacky Ickx would be a 4 time champ (in addition to his 6 le mans wins)ronnie peterson would be a 3 time champ, Wolfgang von tripps would be the 1st of 2 posthumous champs (alongside peterson). Carlos Reutemann would be a 4 time champ, Berger and Patrese would be 4 time champs, Coulthard would be a 4 time champ, Frentzen would be a 2 time champ, Barrichello and Massa would be 3 time champs, Montoya a 2 time champ, Webber a 4 time champ, Ricciardo a 2 time champ, Bottas a 3 time champ and Verstappen would be the youngest ever drivers champion at 20 years old.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 4

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Original post by quasa

That’s interesting. But how does Ralf beat Irvine in 1999? Moss is the big gainer there, as you would expect, along with Rubens. A tad surpsied Massa didn’t sneak one in a Williams.

Reply 5

Original post by Andrew97

That’s interesting. But how does Ralf beat Irvine in 1999? Moss is the big gainer there, as you would expect, along with Rubens. A tad surpsied Massa didn’t sneak one in a Williams.

irvine was runner up in the championship, Ralf was far lower in 99 EDIT - spotted the error and changed it

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 6

Original post by Andrew97

That’s interesting. But how does Ralf beat Irvine in 1999? Moss is the big gainer there, as you would expect, along with Rubens. A tad surpsied Massa didn’t sneak one in a Williams.

whats also interesting to not is that vukovic and the guy who finished 3rd in 1950 only did the indy 500 and no other championship races. Also having a look at the history, it shows why Dan Gurney was considered by Jim Clark to be his greatest rival: the guy was in so many bad cars but kept getting results (imagine if he was in a good team). Its also amazing how many potential Italian and US champions we could have had

Reply 7

With all the talk of the Mercedes works team pulling out of F1, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss how F1 would be without Mercedes. For this post, Ill ignore the pre-ww2 era grand prix racing as it would be an auto-union (Audi) whitewash. With this in mind, here is how history would look:

Part 1 - pre hybrid era
1954 - Ferrari would dominate the championship, with Jose Froilan Gonzalex winning from Mike Hawthorne and Maurice Trintignant in 3rd, The highest non-mercedes car would be Bill Vukovich, by virtue of winning the Indy 500, with Luigi Musso in 5th with a sole 2nd place for Maserati.

1955 - Lancia would win their sole driver's championship, with Eugenio Castellotti winning from Maurice Trintignant and Nino Farina.

Mercedes' reintroduction in the Mid 90s would not really affect much in 95 and 96, however in 97 would have won the championship (even without the bash at Jerez), before dominating the 98 championship. 99 would be interesting as Irvine would be champion (due to Schumacher's accident), however Schumacher would have finished 2nd (due to the absence of Mclaren + ferrari not needing to implement team orders to use Schumi as a rear gunner).

2000,2001,2002,2004 would all be Ferrari 1-2s, with Montoya being runner up by 7 points.

2005 would be a Renault 1-2 in the drivers, with Toyota 2nd in the constructors.

2007 would see Raikkonen winning from Massa, with Massa winning in the rain at the Nurburgring + in Brazil and Massa winning his sole title in 2008.

2009 is an interesting situation as it all depends on how Brawn would have performed with Ferrari Engines. The general knowledge is that both Ferrari and Merc offered Braw Engines, however the Mercedes was chosen as it was easier to install (and as we found out later in the season ,more fuel efficient). Depending on what way you look at it, Brawn could have won the championships, or Red Bull and Vettel would have dominated, with Webber 2nd and raikkonen 3rd. What is interesting to note however is that glock ould have scored Toyota's maiden win in F1 at Singapore.

2010: the absence of the Mercedes powered cars would see Alonso win the championship before reaching Abu Dhabi, with Vettel 2nd and Webber 3rd.

2012: despite Alonso being a better driver, Vettl would have finished further ahead in terms of points than they did in 2012, likewise 2013.

Reply 8

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I’m currently working through a system where we award points for fastest lap rather than finishing position.

One thing I’ve noticed is how this system benefits certain drivers. Notably Bottas who wins the 2018 title. also lance stroll seems to be a huge benificary and Hulkenburg finally gets a podium!

Reply 9

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Original post by Andrew97

I’m going to say this slowly. Nico Hulkenburg is a race winner under this system..... Fernando Alonso wins in a McLaren Honda and Kmag has two race wins....

I can’t stop laughing. Add Gutierrez, Sutil, Kobayashi and Bruno Senna and Glock to thr list.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 10

Original post by Andrew97

My life without mercedes part 2 list has some rather intriguing results far. 2014 there is a 3 way title battle, 2015 is 1 sided domination from 1 driver, 2016 raises some interesting what if moments. Still to do 17, 18 and 19.

Reply 11