16 year old receives death and rape threat after criticising Islam Watch

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ArtmisKco
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#41
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#41
(Original post by londonmyst)
Not funny. :whip:
A vicious pervert on instagram who couldn't handle a girl turning him down and tried to involve religion into his creepy bull****.
Probably the type of guy that demands nudes from random girls online.
Is the guy being sarcastic or genuinely mean the ‘religion of peace thing’?
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MiaNova
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#42
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#42
(Original post by londonmyst)
All religions have bad apples- vicious liars, thugs and idiots.
Only real questions are: how many and how badly do they behave.
Agreed ^
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londonmyst
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#43
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(Original post by ArtmisKco)
Is the guy being sarcastic or genuinely mean the ‘religion of peace thing’?
Sounds like a sarcastic joke to me.
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tdpr_
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#44
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Ok.

I think you may have misunderstood my question.
It wasn't about what the media writes, it was about all religions with their own written religious book of scripture and official leadership traditions/teachings.
All religions have bad apples- vicious liars, thugs and idiots.
Only real questions are: how many and how badly do they behave.
I meant what you said I just worded it really badly. What I was trying to say is that these books were written a long time ago and to cherry pick a verse that suits your agenda, without consulting an expert, or at least someone who has the slightest knowledge regarding the context, is a really good way to show ignorance. Hence, I would make the same claim (your initial question) for all the scriptures.
Last edited by tdpr_; 1 month ago
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_gcx
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#45
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(Original post by MiaNova)
I think Atheists always 'pick out' & focus on the more traditional / extremist groups when it comes to religion in general (not just Islam).

Had she said such things about the church of England, the priest or the Bible... She would have got the same response.

There are"extreme" individuals in all religions, not just Islam. It's just that I've noticed people (here on TSR anyway), focus on Islam a lot, which I find a little disturbing given there's a young audience here.

Yes, I completely agree it has gone way too far for her to be advised to go into hiding.
No one should be scared for their life.
I hope she's okay

But she has to understand that not everyone will understand/support her "opinions".
That's just the way life is :rolleyes:
Kind of? While the activities of these groups may reflect certain parts of the ideology (some are up to interpretation, I suppose) I don't think anyone would claim that they reflect on followers of Islam. Most Muslims wouldn't stand for such atrocities.

I dunno - I don't think people get death threats for pointing out that the Catholic church had (has? I'm really not up to date on it) a pedophilia issue.

The only real reason is that it's a contemporary issue. The fight against Islamic extremism is ongoing, while say the IRA aren't too lively anymore. Were these terrorist groups not as active and an ongoing threat, I think discussion of Islam would die down. This is unfair on Muslims who do not associate with these groups, but it's just how it is.

There is a pretty substantial difference between respectively disagreeing or criticising your opinion, and outright threatening to take your life over it. I don't think any excuse at all can be made for this, so I would be hesitant to concede at all to it. Saying the Qur'an is full of hate is ultimately not the worst thing she could've said. She did not attack Muslims, just voiced her distaste for Islam. Had her comments been Islamophobic, I'd more expect (but obviously not excuse) the response.
Last edited by _gcx; 1 month ago
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Amiimle
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#46
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#46
it’s clear what the agenda for this thread is, fellow Muslims don’t even waste your time, the same way that that mans actions doesn’t represent Islam is the same the kkk don’t represent all Christians, good day
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MiaNova
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#47
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(Original post by _gcx)
Kind of? While the activities of these groups may reflect certain parts of the ideology (some are up to interpretation, I suppose) I don't think anyone would claim that they reflect on followers of Islam. Most Muslims wouldn't stand for such atrocities.

I dunno - I don't think people get death threats for pointing out that the Catholic church had (has? I'm really not up to date on it) a pedophilia issue.

The only real reason is that it's a contemporary issue. The fight against Islamic extremism is ongoing, while say the IRA aren't too lively anymore. Were these terrorist groups not as active and an ongoing threat, I think discussion of Islam would die down. This is unfair on Muslims who do not associate with these groups, but it's just how it is.

There is a pretty substantial difference between respectively disagreeing or criticising your opinion, and outright threatening to take your life over it. I don't think any excuse at all can be made for this, so I would be hesitant to concede at all to it. Saying the Qur'an is full of hate is ultimately not the worst thing she could've said. She did not attack Muslims, just voiced her distaste for Islam. Had her comments been Islamophobic, I'd more expect (but obviously not excuse) the response.
Fair enough.
You don't think she was being islamaphobic?
I don't think (for Muslims anyway), she could have done any worse at that point, than bashing the religion, it's holy book and followers.

Also to say "it's just how it is" implies it cannot be changed, which is wrong. You can't just "accept" something wrong as normal -- it can be changed if individuals learn more about the religion rather than nitpicking certain verses. This goes for all religions.

Also, not surprised that this occurred in France, from what's gone on in the past there, she's probably got the same views on Islam as many others there.

I don't think any religion should be bashed.
You're frankly stupid if you think you'll get off lightly for saying something horrible towards someone's faith. It's wrong both ethically and morally.

It's not all atheists either. It's the "extreme" ones who come out with the verbal abuse online. It's sad. But yeah that's "just how it is", what does it matter
Last edited by MiaNova; 1 month ago
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_gcx
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#48
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#48
(Original post by MiaNova)
Fair enough.
You don't think she was being islamaphobic?
I don't think (for Muslims anyway), she could have done any worse at that point, than bashing the religion, it's holy book and followers.

Also to say "it's just how it is" implies it cannot be changed, which is wrong. You can't just "accept" something wrong as normal -- it can be changed if individuals learn more about the religion rather than nitpicking certain verses. This goes for all religions.

Also, not surprised that this occurred in France, from what's gone on in the past there, she's probably got the same views on Islam as many others there.

I don't think any religion should be bashed.
You're frankly stupid if you think you'll get off lightly for saying something horrible towards someone's faith. It's wrong both ethically and morally.

It's not all atheists either. It's the "extreme" ones who come out with the verbal abuse online. It's sad. But yeah that's "just how it is", what does it matter
No I don't think she was. She did not really exhibit direct prejudice towards Muslims. In fact, the way I read it, the attacker was the one that made religion an issue?

I mean, she only attacked the holy book which is very distinct from attacking the followers. I guess you could argue the context she bought it up as attacking the followers.

Aside from neglecting to cover Islamic extremism - it can't be changed. Religiously motivated attacks will always result in discussions of the relevant holy text, that's natural. It does often cross the line, but it's a healthy discussion to be had. Will help understand the motivation for the attacks. I think it's a bit unfair to blame these views on a lack of knowledge of Islam, I think this is fairly dismissive. There are critics of Islam that have probably studied the Qur'an in far more depth than many Muslims and have drawn negative conclusions.

I don't see the issue in criticising these religions. There is nothing wrong with criticising say ideologies or worldviews, so religion should not be that different. Criticising someone's religion is not the same as criticising them as a person. Frankly, if someone decides to take such a criticism personally then that is on them. Some criticisms do cross the line and verge on attacking members of a religion sure, but taken in isolation her quote only refers to the Qur'an. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect to feel safe criticising a religion. No-one should expect death threats for criticising anything, that's rather dystopian lol.
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MiaNova
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(Original post by _gcx)
No I don't think she was. She did not really exhibit direct prejudice towards Muslims. In fact, the way I read it, the attacker was the one that made religion an issue?

I mean, she only attacked the holy book which is very distinct from attacking the followers. I guess you could argue the context she bought it up as attacking the followers.

Aside from neglecting to cover Islamic extremism - it can't be changed. Religiously motivated attacks will always result in discussions of the relevant holy text, that's natural. It does often cross the line, but it's a healthy discussion to be had. Will help understand the motivation for the attacks. I think it's a bit unfair to blame these views on a lack of knowledge of Islam, I think this is fairly dismissive. There are critics of Islam that have probably studied the Qur'an in far more depth than many Muslims and have drawn negative conclusions.

I don't see the issue in criticising these religions. There is nothing wrong with criticising say ideologies or worldviews, so religion should not be that different. Criticising someone's religion is not the same as criticising them as a person. Frankly, if someone decides to take such a criticism personally then that is on them. Some criticisms do cross the line and verge on attacking members of a religion sure, but taken in isolation her quote only refers to the Qur'an. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect to feel safe criticising a religion. No-one should expect death threats for criticising anything, that's rather dystopian lol.
True, I agree.
Thanks for your reply
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by ibby68)
The apostate rule is only in the context of war. And there are also a lot of pre requisites for this rule to be applied that you clearly fail to mention .This rule is explained clearly by people of knowledge.We cannot just kill people for leaving the religion, if thats what your trying to imply.
Killing people because they refuse to believe something is vile, in any context. It's also pretty stupid to accept what they say that they believe under duress. Religions aren't based on logic, and have issues with intelligence, IMO.

Islam, and specifically the Quran, clearly contains hate, as does the Bible. It, equally clearly, does not contain only hate. Many Muslims are decent people, so ignore the hateful passages. Too many accept them though. One disturbing example is that over 50% of British Muslims (who I'd expect to be on the moderate side of Islam) want homosexual acts to be illegal. This is something that has ZERO impact on them, but they are told offends their god.
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jeakiopre
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#51
(Original post by RogerOxon)
Killing people because they refuse to believe something is vile, in any context. It's also pretty stupid to accept what they say that they believe under duress. Religions aren't based on logic, and have issues with intelligence, IMO.

Islam, and specifically the Quran, clearly contains hate, as does the Bible. It, equally clearly, does not contain only hate. Many Muslims are decent people, so ignore the hateful passages. Too many accept them though. One disturbing example is that over 50% of British Muslims (who I'd expect to be on the moderate side of Islam) want homosexual acts to be illegal. This is something that has ZERO impact on them, but they are told offends their god.
And how many people think incest should be illegal when it is something that has ZERO impact on them, but they are told by a hypocritical society (that supports the abuse of billions of animals) that they should find incest offensive?
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generallee
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#52
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(Original post by tdpr_)
Sorry but there’s no way I can’t interrupt you here. All these so called “violent verses” have been taken out of context and misinterpreted. Just because some idiot, who has no clue about Islam, decides he has the authority to interpret a verse how he wishes and then carries out a violent act DOES NOT mean Islam is a violent religion.
You do know that Islam (like Christianity by the way) was spread by the sword?

With prisoners beheaded, from its earliest days, all down the centuries, to the ISIS of today?
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by MiaNova)
Fair enough.
I don't think (for Muslims anyway), she could have done any worse at that point, than bashing the religion, it's holy book and followers.
What did she say about its (no apostrophe ..) followers?
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Amiimle
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Islam is reasonable, always.
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MiaNova
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
What did she say about its (no apostrophe ..) followers?
In a clip she said: “I hate religion. The Koran is… full of hate, Islam is sh**, that’s what I think. I am not racist, not at all.

^ although not directly, the effect is the same. Bashing the religion = bashing the followers essentially.

But I do think it was unnecessary to bring religion into the conversation at all. She is very young (16), no one deserves to be threatened.

I agree with _gcx talking about religion and discussing it is good / fine, but the problem arises when the 'discussion' turns into a extreme debate
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by jeakiopre)
And how many people think incest should be illegal when it is something that has ZERO impact on them, but they are told by a hypocritical society (that supports the abuse of billions of animals) that they should find incest offensive?
I should have added "and harms no one". Incest is a difficult topic, which can I include grooming and birth defects - i.e. harm.
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generallee
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OK, I have a question for supporters of unlimited immigration and multiculturalism:

If this is what happens with Muslims consisting of 8.8% of the population of a country -

(https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-on-migration/)

will the situation become

1. Better

or

2. Worse

as the population grows? Which it is forecast to do, according to the respected, independent research body cited above, if we continue our immigration policies .

I put it to you, who support open borders, and uncontrolled migration into Europe, that we "ain't seen nothing yet." This is just the beginning...
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RogerOxon
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#58
(Original post by MiaNova)
In a clip she said: “I hate religion. The Koran is… full of hate, Islam is sh**, that’s what I think. I am not racist, not at all.

^ although not directly, the effect is the same.
No, it isn't.

(Original post by MiaNova)
Bashing the religion = bashing the followers essentially.
I strongly disagree. That is a very slipery slope. Criticism of ideas must always be allowed, likewise free speech.
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Fuego1
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#59
(Original post by MiaNova)
In a clip she said: “I hate religion. The Koran is… full of hate, Islam is sh**, that’s what I think. I am not racist, not at all.

^ although not directly, the effect is the same. Bashing the religion = bashing the followers essentially.

But I do think it was unnecessary to bring religion into the conversation at all. She is very young (16), no one deserves to be threatened.

I agree with _gcx talking about religion and discussing it is good / fine, but the problem arises when the 'discussion' turns into a extreme debate
criticism of a set of religious teachings DOES NOT equal bashing it's followers!

Muslims are a homogenous group OF PEOPLE, while islam is an ideology/ belief system. learn the difference between islam and Muslims.

Religions are sets of beliefs/ideas and any form of belief/idea is not immune to criticism, regardless of how close you hold the belief to your heart or live your life according to it - No one has a right not to be offended. Control your emotions and stop lashing out when your belief gets criticised...
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Fuego1
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(Original post by MiaNova)
In a clip she said: “I hate religion. The Koran is… full of hate, Islam is sh**, that’s what I think. I am not racist, not at all.

^ although not directly, the effect is the same. Bashing the religion = bashing the followers essentially.

But I do think it was unnecessary to bring religion into the conversation at all. She is very young (16), no one deserves to be threatened.

I agree with _gcx talking about religion and discussing it is good / fine, but the problem arises when the 'discussion' turns into a extreme debate
so where do we draw the line between 'discussion' and 'extreme debate'? If someone makes the claim that islam doesn't promote violence, someone can easy present evidence from scriptures that it does promote violence. it is then upto the person who made the initial claim to refute this. That isn't 'extreme debate'

Face it, you just cannot comprehend the idea of criticising religious belief because you're too scared to offend someone. If you have confidence in your beliefs, you should have no problems defending them - so why lash out?

You wouldn't have any problem if people spoke about all the pros of religion, so why can't you accept the cons?
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