Oxford History Professor given security guards after threats Watch

generallee
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...tures-threats/

I know someone who was at Hilda's who tells me she is the most woke, right on, academic imaginable.

But the revolution, that is wokiness, devours its own young.

I know I shouldn't laugh, but it is hard not to...
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the bear
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it is a complete joke.
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the bear
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the barbarians are at the gate.
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DiddyDec
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Seems a bit overkill but whatever floats their boat.
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generallee
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(Original post by the bear)
the barbarians are at the gate.
Do you think it is an intellectual fad that will eventually pass, or is it game over for the liberal arts at western universities?

It almost feels like the better the university, the worse the [email protected] wokiness...
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the bear
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(Original post by generallee)
Do you think it is an intellectual fad that will eventually pass, or is it game over for the liberal arts at western universities?

It almost feels like the better the university, the worse the [email protected] wokiness...
i guess the same thing happened when printed books were made available to every Thibault, Rufus and Hereward :rolleyes:
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generallee
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(Original post by the bear)
i guess the same thing happened when printed books were made available to every Thibault, Rufus and Hereward :rolleyes:
Dunno, I think it might be game over...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOi77MPlfn4
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Pinkisk
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This story is not what most people think it is.

This woman is a feminist and this story is an example of the current war going on inside feminism between pro-transgender and anti-transgender feminists. The anti-transgender feminists hate the idea that men can now change to women. This is the only reason why they oppose transgenderism.

Physical fights are common between the two sides. People reading these news articles think that this woman is probably conservative or right wing. You should not fall for this trap. She is not. This woman is a hardcore liberal and probably even a leftist extremist. The reasons that she opposes transgenderism is not because she believes transgenderism is wrong or she spouses free speech. It is because she hates men.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 3 weeks ago
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
This story is not what most people think it is.

This woman is a feminist and this story is an example of the current war going on inside feminism between pro-transgender and anti-transgender feminists. The anti-transgender feminists hate the idea that men can now change to women. This is the only reason why they oppose transgenderism.

Physical fights are common between the two sides. People reading these news articles think that this woman is probably conservative or right wing. You should not fall for this trap. She is not. This woman is a hardcore liberal and probably even a leftist extremist. The reasons that she opposes transgenderism is not because she believes transgenderism is wrong or she spouses free speech. It is because she hates men.
Please let me know it this thread actually gets tought.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
This story is not what most people think it is.

This woman is a feminist and this story is an example of the current war going on inside feminism between pro-transgender and anti-transgender feminists. The anti-transgender feminists hate the idea that men can now change to women. This is the only reason why they oppose transgenderism.

Physical fights are common between the two sides. People reading these news articles think that this woman is probably conservative or right wing. You should not fall for this trap. She is not. This woman is a hardcore liberal and probably even a leftist extremist. The reasons that she opposes transgenderism is not because she believes transgenderism is wrong or she spouses free speech. It is because she hates men.
She isn't opposed to transgenderism, she has said that herself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51248684
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Stiff Little Fingers
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There's something really strange going on here - the university decided the threats meant she needed a security detail for her own safety but there's been absolutely no police involvement or disciplinary action against those making the threats? They say threats and yet the only thing the article references is people challenging her teaching for being ahistorical and erasing historical trans people?

Obviously if there are threats, that can't be condoned, but from what's printed it sounds more like a bog-standard reactionary trying to shut down any criticism of academic ideas by pretending to be a victim despite the lack of a power structure behind it and reversing the actual flow of violence (which is near solely done to trans rights advocates)
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
There's something really strange going on here - the university decided the threats meant she needed a security detail for her own safety but there's been absolutely no police involvement or disciplinary action against those making the threats? They say threats and yet the only thing the article references is people challenging her teaching for being ahistorical and erasing historical trans people?

Obviously if there are threats, that can't be condoned, but from what's printed it sounds more like a bog-standard reactionary trying to shut down any criticism of academic ideas by pretending to be a victim despite the lack of a power structure behind it and reversing the actual flow of violence (which is near solely done to trans rights advocates)
There's definitely more to the story than is shown in the Telegraph article OP cites, which ignores for example the fact that Todd is a supporter of Women's Place UK.
https://cherwell.org/2019/11/01/univ...action-oxford/

WPUK is condemned by anti-transphobia groups, but it has a lot of support and personally I am on their 'side' in that I don't like the reflexive auto-hate from the trans community that seems to be their reaction to any critiques of proposed government policies towards the issue, like for example access to women's toilets, changing rooms, etc.

Selina Todd seems to be a good woman as far as I can tell from her published statements and this is an important story, but we also need to have all the facts in newspaper stories about it and not only selected ones.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
There's definitely more to the story than is shown in the Telegraph article OP cites, which ignores for example the fact that Todd is a supporter of Women's Place UK.
https://cherwell.org/2019/11/01/univ...action-oxford/

WPUK is condemned by anti-transphobia groups, but it has a lot of support and personally I am on their 'side' in that I don't like the reflexive auto-hate from the trans community that seems to be their reaction to any critiques of proposed government policies towards the issue, like for example access to women's toilets, changing rooms, etc.

Selina Todd seems to be a good woman as far as I can tell from her published statements and this is an important story, but we also need to have all the facts in newspaper stories about it and not only selected ones.
I mean, that's fair though given access to gendered spaces has been granted through the equality act for a decade now without any real issue (rather than through the GRA which is constantly suggested in column inches by people who want to sow division). Unsurprisingly people are tired of takes with absolutely no factual information in them being used as an attack
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Greywolftwo
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
There's something really strange going on here - the university decided the threats meant she needed a security detail for her own safety but there's been absolutely no police involvement or disciplinary action against those making the threats? They say threats and yet the only thing the article references is people challenging her teaching for being ahistorical and erasing historical trans people?

Obviously if there are threats, that can't be condoned, but from what's printed it sounds more like a bog-standard reactionary trying to shut down any criticism of academic ideas by pretending to be a victim despite the lack of a power structure behind it and reversing the actual flow of violence (which is near solely done to trans rights advocates)
Well said, the most woke thing anyone’s said
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
I mean, that's fair though given access to gendered spaces has been granted through the equality act for a decade now without any real issue (rather than through the GRA which is constantly suggested in column inches by people who want to sow division). Unsurprisingly people are tired of takes with absolutely no factual information in them being used as an attack
It says 'sex', not 'gender' in the EA - that's the whole issue.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It says 'sex', not 'gender' in the EA - that's the whole issue.
No, that's completely false. The equality act 2010 includes gender reassignment as a protected characteristic in the provision of single sex services, with an exception for exceptional circumstances. In practice that protects access of single sex services by trans people should someone complain, since all access in practice is done on self identification anyway. The current discussion is on the gender recognition act, which allows trans people to acquire a gender recognition certificate, meaning their gender is legally recognised - typically this affects, or rather affected marriage and civil partnerships given the lack of same sex marriage when the act was originally passed in 2004 - meaning that legally a straight trans person couldn't marry, or at the very least it was terms for an annulment, because in the eyes of the law said straight trans person would actually be in a same sex relationship. The proposed reform is to allow trans people to acquire a gender recognition certificate without the current bureaucracy of having to demonstrate having "lived as their acquired gender for two years" (how exactly does one live as a woman/man? In practice it just means a panel judging whether you conform enough to be legally recognised). Access to single sex spaces and services would still remain solely under the coverage of the equality act 2010 - groups like WPUK who pretend GRA reform impacts same sex spaces are deliberately disseminating misinformation in an attempt to block a reform that does nothing but afford trans people a little more dignity - because WPUK are a hate group and nothing more and as such do not want to see the minority they've chosen to demonise being afforded basic human dignity.
Last edited by Stiff Little Fingers; 3 weeks ago
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Napp
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
because WPUK are a hate group and nothing more and as such do not want to see the minority they've chosen to demonise being afforded basic human dignity.
You do know that just because they don't agree with your view that doesnt make them a 'hate group' right?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Napp)
You do know that just because they don't agree with your view that doesnt make them a 'hate group' right?
Of course it doesn't. The fact that they're a group organised entirely around bigotry and the proliferation of it is what makes them a hate group.
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Napp
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Of course it doesn't. The fact that they're a group organised entirely around bigotry and the proliferation of it is what makes them a hate group.
Oh hardly, again just because you dont like their position doesnt mean you get to brand them with those delightfully, err, tasteful terms.
If anything, doesnt your resolute hatred for them and their politics make you guilty of the aforementioned?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Napp)
Oh hardly, again just because you dont like their position doesnt mean you get to brand them with those delightfully, err, tasteful terms.
If anything, doesnt your resolute hatred for them and their politics make you guilty of the aforementioned?
Again, it's nothing to do with whether I disagree with them, and everything to do with them promoting bigotry. They actively promote hatred towards trans people. That is the sole purpose of them as a group. So, group that exists solely to promote hate = hate group. Really not a difficult equation.

Since nothing I'm saying against them is an attack on any protected characteristic, no.
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