Speaker Hoyle to lift ban on breastfeeding in the chamber. Watch

Occitanie
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#21
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#21
(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Recess: Sometimes it's just not convenient. This is a hungry baby we're talking about. You can't just ask them to wait.

Spend all day with mother: Not necessarily, but it's not unreasonable for a woman to want to spend at least some of her working day with her newborn baby.

Hire someone: Are we expecting the hireling to breastfeed the kid herself? Most mothers and most hirelings wouldn't be okay with that. Or are we suggesting nutritionally inferior formula milk? Why should MPs have to compromise on what their children are fed? I guess an MP could express milk with a breast pump and bottle it for a hireling to use, but that seems like a faff; what MP has time? Why divert time that could be used serving the country?

At the end of the day, if you have a problem with MPs who breastfeed, that would seem to be your problem to get over, not theirs. Grow thicker skin, avert your eyes, do whatever you need to.
Getting someone else other than the mother to breastfeed the child? Come on now, who do you take me as??!!

Can't the mother fill recipients of her own milk as supply? I'm pretty sure that exists.

And, tell me, why should the rest of us have to accommodate everything around one person in a place of work?
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princetonalec
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(Original post by Occitanie)
Completely?! Don’t be absurd.

I don’t think it should be allowed at the workplace.

I know there’s the whole “A baby sucking on her mum’s tit is good for its health” explanation, but there are many other ways of making sure your baby is fed properly.

I mean the mother could even be excused to go do it somewhere private if breastfeeding is what she wants. There’s no need to do it out in the open.

But I guess I should “shut up you ****ing straight white male REEEEEE!!!”
:/
Anyway a woman's nipples aren't inherently sexual and refusing her baby milk would be borderline abuse so I see breastfeeding within the workplace as a necessary "evil" so long as mothers who would like to breastfeed at home are unable to due to low wages.
If the babies hungry and has to be with the mother at work, why can't she feed? Plus the fact that milk doesn't just disappear, even if she couldn't feed there should be facilities where she can pump so she's not in constant pain and feeling sore for the whole day.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by londonmyst)
You have a lot of faith in Parliamentarians, their disciplinary procedures and willingness to deal with complaints.
Handling allegations of being an obvious pervert who does not touch, commits no crime or legal harassment but leers at women's chests and acts in a very creepy way- this would be a legal and ethical minefield.
Although exposing anyone idiotic enough to start leering during broadcasted debates to public ridicule could socially shame a few of the most obvious pervs.

According to the Independent Inquiry Report of July 2019, there are some pervs in Parliament who have been accused of sexual offences like groping or sexual harassment:
"unwelcome sexual advances, often accompanied by attempts at kissing.
Many involved some form of unwanted touching: for example breasts being grabbed, buttocks being slapped, thighs being stroked and crotches being pressed/rubbed against bodies".

MPs have also been accused of failing to effectively deal with complaints- "I heard of a number of cases, including reports of sexual harassment, in which the complaint was deliberately ignored or brushed aside by the MP and of others in which complaints were insufficiently rigorously dealt with. In one case an employer MP told a person complaining of sexual harassment that it was their responsibility to address the issues with their colleague."
https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...ly%202019_.pdf
Do you suggest that women should refrain from wearing revealing clothing to avoid being leered at in general?
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londonmyst
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Do you suggest that women should refrain from wearing revealing clothing to avoid being leered at in general?
No.

Friends who feed their babies discretely in Kensington & Chelsea cafes using covers complain that they get more pervy creeps when breastfeeding than they do when nude sunbathing alone.
The staff owe a legal duty of care but say that there is absolutely nothing they can do about the pervs unless direct physical contact or a criminal threat is made.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by londonmyst)
No.

Friends who feed their babies discretely in Kensington & Chelsea cafes using covers complain that they get more pervy creeps when breastfeeding than they do when nude sunbathing alone.
The staff owe a legal duty of care but say that there is absolutely nothing they can do about the pervs unless direct physical contact or a criminal threat is made.
Maybe it's worth considering that this ruling only allows MPs to breastfeed at work; it does not force them to. They are probably as aware as you that they may be leered at. If they don't wish to be leered at, they can still refrain from breastfeeding at work. The rule just frees MPs to make their own choices.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by Occitanie)
Getting someone else other than the mother to breastfeed the child? Come on now, who do you take me as??!!

Can't the mother fill recipients of her own milk as supply? I'm pretty sure that exists.

And, tell me, why should the rest of us have to accommodate everything around one person in a place of work?
My opinion of you isn't important; I was merely seeking clarification.

As I addressed in the post you quoted, not all MPs may have the time or inclination to express milk ahead of time. Why make things inconvenient for them when they could use that time to represent our interests?

IMO, a breastfeeding woman does not actually need much accommodation. All you need to do is let her do her own thing and refrain from leering at her. Are you really suggesting that's a challenge for you, or for Parliamentary staff?
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Leviathan1611
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I'm a bit confused, I'm assuming the commons chamber is where MPs are to debate and bring in new laws and stuff. what on earth is a baby doing in there in the first place?
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Occitanie
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
My opinion of you isn't important; I was merely seeking clarification.

As I addressed in the post you quoted, not all MPs may have the time or inclination to express milk ahead of time. Why make things inconvenient for them when they could use that time to represent our interests?

IMO, a breastfeeding woman does not actually need much accommodation. All you need to do is let her do her own thing and refrain from leering at her. Are you really suggesting that's a challenge for you, or for Parliamentary staff?
Ask them, not me lol
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by Occitanie)
Ask them, not me lol
Presumably Hoyle did ask them in reaching the decision he's made.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by londonmyst)
No.

Friends who feed their babies discretely in Kensington & Chelsea cafes using covers complain that they get more pervy creeps when breastfeeding than they do when nude sunbathing alone.
The staff owe a legal duty of care but say that there is absolutely nothing they can do about the pervs unless direct physical contact or a criminal threat is made.
From a male point of view, we are attracted to breasts, we notice breasts, most look as discreetly as we can what we see what we consider a nice pair. This is natural, however while I understand attractions are subjective to the individual, I just cannot see how breast feeding a baby is anything to get sexual about?

To be working class and crude about it, a woman (with no baby around) flashing her tits in a sexual way providing the man finds her attractive, is one for the [email protected]*k bank. A pregnant woman or a new mother with a crying baby in her arms doing the same, would be as attractive as my "nan on the bog"! So while I totally get why women feel men are any excuse to see a naked female nipple, I really dont think so in this instance.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 2 weeks ago
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Just my opinion
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(Original post by Leviathan1611)
I'm a bit confused, I'm assuming the commons chamber is where MPs are to debate and bring in new laws and stuff. what on earth is a baby doing in there in the first place?
I see nobody has jumped in to answer your perfectly reasonable question.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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(Original post by Just my opinion)
I see nobody has jumped in to answer your perfectly reasonable question.
I understand she is a mother, why can't they provide childcare for its MPs then instead of having to keep them on the benches, its more of a poliitical and symbolic move as we have seen in other legislatures...
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Leviathan1611)
I'm a bit confused, I'm assuming the commons chamber is where MPs are to debate and bring in new laws and stuff. what on earth is a baby doing in there in the first place?
There is now something of a social trend for mothers to bring their babies to work, either occasionally or on a regular basis.
Sometimes because they don't have childcare, agreed childcare arrangements have fallen through at the last minute or as a matter of habit.
Occasionally intersectional feminist men and women do this seeking to make a wordless statement.
Parliament, the modelling catwalk, the office.
I had three coworkers who brought their babies/toddlers into the office with them at least 4 times a week. :thumbdown:

Jo Swinson is believed to be the first MP to have her baby son with her during a parliamentary debate.
Her husband, Duncan Hames, was the first MP to carry a baby through the voting lobby of the House of Commons.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
From a male point of view, we are attracted to breasts, we notice breasts, most look as discreetly as we can what we see what we consider a nice pair. This is natural, however while I understand attractions are subjective to the individual, I just cannot see how breast feeding a baby is anything to get sexual about?

To be working class and crude about it, a woman (with no baby around) flashing her tits in a sexual way providing the man finds her attractive, is one for the [email protected]*k bank. A pregnant woman or a new mother with a crying baby in her arms doing the same, would be as attractive as my "nan on the bog"! So while I totally get why women feel men are any excuse to see a naked female nipple, I really dont think so in this instance.
Pervs will be pervs.
There will always be a few who would leer at "nan on the bog" or even nan changing her socks.
While reasonable guys have the self control and good manners to avoid acting like perverted creeps in the workplace/other public places.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Pervs will be pervs.
There will always be a few who would leer at "nan on the bog" or even nan changing her socks.
While reasonable guys have the self control and good manners to avoid acting like perverted creeps in the workplace/other public places.
I really dont think we should be legislating to the lowest of the low, or the tiny fraction 0.001% of the male population. I get you, I mean theres just about every type of porn available so someone must like some weird things.

The point is I dont think women should be forced into a feeding booth because of someone's weird fantasies. There are cameras all over the chambers, it would not be hard to gather evidence on those who deserve to act with better respect. I dont think we should assume every bloke is that sex crazed he cant see any flesh without perving and thus thrown women into "feeding booths" to protect the tiny fraction of weirdos.

Do you get me?
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adam271
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Just shows how out of touch Westminster is.
You shouldn't be raising your kid while working. You get paid to represent your constituency. So represent it. Mother's have maternity leave and I'm sure if there are issues they can take more time off.

Imagine if a mother tried bringing her child to work in a proper job to breastfeed.

The issue is not the breastfeeding imo it's the raising kid when you should be working.
By the same logic I should be entitled to take time off during work hours to look after my kid.
Also many mother's who work real jobs and raise kids use breast pumps and stick it in the fridge. What's wrong with that.



Just no.
If there is a issue with childcare services in Westminster than maybe that should be addressed but I highly doubt that is the case.

That being said. I don't care . it's one of those news stories designed to make more news. Shouldn't even be news.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I really dont think we should be legislating to the lowest of the low, or the tiny fraction 0.001% of the male population. I get you, I mean theres just about every type of porn available so someone must like some weird things.

The point is I dont think women should be forced into a feeding booth because of someone's weird fantasies. There are cameras all over the chambers, it would not be hard to gather evidence on those who deserve to act with better respect. I dont think we should assume every bloke is that sex crazed he cant see any flesh without perving and thus thrown women into "feeding booths" to protect the tiny fraction of weirdos.

Do you get me?
I understand your opinion.
I'm not keen on babies and the youngest of children even being brought to Parliament.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by adam271)
Just shows how out of touch Westminster is.
You shouldn't be raising your kid while working. You get paid to represent your constituency. So represent it. Mother's have maternity leave and I'm sure if there are issues they can take more time off.

Imagine if a mother tried bringing her child to work in a proper job to breastfeed.

The issue is not the breastfeeding imo it's the raising kid when you should be working.
By the same logic I should be entitled to take time off during work hours to look after my kid.
Also many mother's who work real jobs and raise kids use breast pumps and stick it in the fridge. What's wrong with that.



Just no.
If there is a issue with childcare services in Westminster than maybe that should be addressed but I highly doubt that is the case.

That being said. I don't care . it's one of those news stories designed to make more news. Shouldn't even be news.
(Original post by londonmyst)
I understand your opinion.
I'm not keen on babies and the youngest of children even being brought to Parliament.
It is also a question of setting the example that it is OK to breastfeed a baby in a public place, or your workplace if for some reason you are there with your baby.
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Leviathan1611
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(Original post by londonmyst)
There is now something of a social trend for mothers to bring their babies to work, either occasionally or on a regular basis.
Sometimes because they don't have childcare, agreed childcare arrangements have fallen through at the last minute or as a matter of habit.
Occasionally intersectional feminist men and women do this seeking to make a wordless statement.
Parliament, the modelling catwalk, the office.
I had three coworkers who brought their babies/toddlers into the office with them at least 4 times a week. :thumbdown:

Jo Swinson is believed to be the first MP to have her baby son with her during a parliamentary debate.
Her husband, Duncan Hames, was the first MP to carry a baby through the voting lobby of the House of Commons.
hmm, I don't know how to feel about this. would that even be a suitable for a child to be in that kind of environment? politicians talking over each other and indirectly insulting each other all the while hearing that dude go "ORDER, ORDER!".
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Greywolftwo
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(Original post by Andrew97)
https://news.sky.com/story/breastfee...snt-sf-twitter

Mr speaker said it did not feel right for a man to dictate this policy?

I’m not sure what I think about this. On the one hand I have 0 issue with breastfeeding in public and do think it’s overegged (I believe it’s neither disgusting nor a wonderful thing, just a baby having lunch)

On the other I’m not sure we should encourage people to being babies to the place of work since it’s not conductive to most work places.
Agree on lifting the ban and the idea that it’s not productive to bring babies into the workplace
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