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A pushback against trans activism in Britain

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Original post by InArduisFouette
you are a wilfully ignoranct , pathetic and arrongant child ...

a modicum of maturity

The irony.
Original post by adam271
I think we should try to keep this conversation civil.

Also as far as I could make out the article has nothing to do about a push back regarding trans activism but on the morality of preventing children going through puberty to aid in gender reassignment.

I may have misread it though.

this is not a 'some fine people on both sides ' talking point

the clinical and basic sciences evidence is very, very clear, on this topic

- delaying puberty in transgender young people saves lives , it also prevents unnecessary medicla and surgical intervention being required down the line

- the claimed 80 % desistence rates for trans young people are lies pure and simple, they rely on debunked worked, by pariahs using diagnostic criteria that current clinicians consider to be useless.

- there is no 'prevention' of puberty in the care of trans young people, in fact the only reason that puberty delaying treatment in much of Europe is continued as long as it is is because of the law in the Netherlands in the 1980s with regard to medical consent. the evidence base and the current operational guidelines in Australia , Canada and Spain opt for puberty with peers and until the trolls descended in the UK even GIDS was considering reducing the 'hard floor' on hormones rather than just just puberty suppression


http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-determinants/gender/gender-definitions/whoeurope-brief-transgender-health-in-the-context-of-icd-11
Original post by InArduisFouette
this is not a 'some fine people on both sides ' talking point

the clinical and basic sciences evidence is very, very clear, on this topic

- delaying puberty in transgender young people saves lives , it also prevents unnecessary medicla and surgical intervention being required down the line

- the claimed 80 % desistence rates for trans young people are lies pure and simple, they rely on debunked worked, by pariahs using diagnostic criteria that current clinicians consider to be useless.

- there is no 'prevention' of puberty in the care of trans young people, in fact the only reason that puberty delaying treatment in much of Europe is continued as long as it is is because of the law in the Netherlands in the 1980s with regard to medical consent. the evidence base and the current operational guidelines in Australia , Canada and Spain opt for puberty with peers and until the trolls descended in the UK even GIDS was considering reducing the 'hard floor' on hormones rather than just just puberty suppression


http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-determinants/gender/gender-definitions/whoeurope-brief-transgender-health-in-the-context-of-icd-11


Even if it is medically sound.
There is still an argument to be had about the morality of giving children drugs to prevent puberty.

Also the article said not every child who has this treatment actually benefited from it in the long term.
How do you know when a kid is just going through a phase or is confused vs actually knowing they are the different sex.


your article also said transgender people suffer transphobic abuse. How do we not know this is the main factor in sucides/ mental health issues and not access to drugs?
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by adam271
Even if it is medically sound.
There is still an argument to be had about the morality of giving children drugs to prevent puberty.

Also the article said not every child who has this treatment actually benefited from it in the long term.
How do you know when a kid is just going through a phase or is confused vs actually knowing they are the different sex.


your article also said transgender people suffer transphobic abuse. How do we not know this is the main factor in sucides/ mental health issues and not access to drugs?

you are warming over the same arguments that are used time and time again by those who are unwilling to accept the clinicla and basic sciences evidence

if a young person who was questioning their gender identity was prescribed GnRH analogues to suppress puberty and subsequently decided they were cis gender, then whenever their next GnRH analogue dose was due , they 'd stop and puberty would resume - just as happens when they are given to cisgender children and young people for precocious puberty ...

there are no ' do nothing' options for young people with gender dysphoria ... puberty suppression is the least worst option if they are still questioning their gender identity

there are fundamentally three options

- allow 'wrong' puberty out of a misplaced belief that allowing this will miraculously 'cure' them
- commence the type of treatment regime that we ( in the UK) give over 16s once the diagnostic criteria are met
- suppress puberty as a holding space - however this has become a politicla football in itself due to the insistence that UK GIDS have on absolutely no hormones before 16 and if someone is over 15 when they commence GnRH analogues they must complete a full year on GnRH analogues in a state of enforced hypogonadism to appease their transphobic critics ( blockers alone at 15 / 16 is cruel and dangerous )
I'm warming over the same arguements because they are strong and perhaps have no satisfactory answer.

That's because mental health and its causes are very difficult to pinpoint.

I believe if transphobic abuse is greatly reduced many people may not feel the need for medical intervention.
We can not know how much of a factor this plays into sucides in trans people.

Also it is still seen as socially unacceptable for people to crossdress in public. So people may feel the need to go through this treatment just to feel socially acceptable dressing the way they want.


You are probably correct in your views but my only argument is that there is a debate to be had on this. Because these trans issues are not understood well.
Original post by Napp
It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you don't even know what a bigot or a fascist is sweetie.
Never mind the amount of utter nonsensical bile you spew.


great point there, you really convince everyone your a big tough guy kid when you insult people, real convincing to anyone reading the thread.
Original post by adam271
I think we should try to keep this conversation civil.

Also as far as I could make out the article has nothing to do about a push back regarding trans activism but on the morality of preventing children going through puberty to aid in gender reassignment.

I may have misread it though.

not going to happen when @Napp cant argue his point the insults start flying, watch next someone will post a link and he will say "im not opening your link" and act like hes just won the debate
Original post by Ragman75
great point there, you really convince everyone your a big tough guy kid when you insult people, real convincing to anyone reading the thread.

The only person who was throwing around insults has had all their posts removed because of it.
Original post by DiddyDec
The only person who was throwing around insults has had all their posts removed because of it.

you just cant make this up can you XD, look at the original post of the post you have just replied to. Tell me is it still there? Is the guy you are referring to the only one to have post removed? Geez at least think abit before you post.
Original post by Ragman75
you just cant make this up can you XD, look at the original post of the post you have just replied to. Tell me is it still there? Is the guy you are referring to the only one to have post removed? Geez at least think abit before you post.

When I posted it was not removed.

I guess being called a fascist transphobic bigot repeatedly gave them reason to give something back.
Reply 30
Original post by Ragman75
great point there, you really convince everyone your a big tough guy kid when you insult people, real convincing to anyone reading the thread.


I'm still curious why you keep tagging me? I cant think of another reason you insist on writing comments at me. Especially such odd ones.
(edited 4 years ago)

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