University strikes - what do you think about them as a student? Watch

Poll: Do you think it's right for lecturers to strike?
Yes (552)
46.86%
No (361)
30.65%
I don't care (265)
22.5%
04MR17
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#41
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#41
(Original post by wanjo1)
It's not right for anyone to strike at all. You're getting paid to do the job, so you best turn up to your job and do it.

If the pay is not enough, change industries or look for a higher role in the same industry. It's as simple as that.
Striking is absolutely pathetic.
This strike isn't about pay, it's about pensions. You can't change your existing pension by moving job.

Striking is also more significant for an occupation with a level of exclusivity. If workers in LIDL went on strike, LIDL would hire new ones. If workers in 74 universities go on strike, who's going to do that work? Academia is a much smaller and much more specialised workforce who are much harder to replace; therefore in order to improve their pension scheme they can strike and have effect.
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PhoenixFortune
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#42
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#42
(Original post by 04MR17)
The principle of withdrawing your labour is a significant one. If you turn that into picking and choosing which bits of your job you do and don't want to do then that's not really a protest as much as it is just doing your job badly on purpose.
During the 2018 strikes, one of my lecturers did a 'work to rule' strike (I think that's what she called it), where she worked only her contracted work hours - so 9 to 5, 3 days a week - but did no other work for the university outside of those hours. AFAIK, she still conducted all of her lectures and seminars as though the strike wasn't happening. She was only of the only lecturers to do so in her department, and let's just say that she's wasn't very popular with her colleagues.
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04MR17
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#43
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#43
(Original post by PhoenixFortune)
During the 2018 strikes, one of my lecturers did a 'work to rule' strike (I think that's what she called it), where she worked only her contracted work hours - so 9 to 5, 3 days a week - but did no other work for the university outside of those hours. AFAIK, she still conducted all of her lectures and seminars as though the strike wasn't happening. She was only of the only lecturers to do so in her department, and let's just say that she's wasn't very popular with her colleagues.
I mean if we're being honest that's technically how staff are supposed to operate anyway. It's certainly how teaching PhD students in my experience have operated regularly. I can see why she'd be unpopular.
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Mr Wednesday
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#44
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#44
(Original post by wanjo1)
It's not right for anyone to strike at all. You're getting paid to do the job, so you best turn up to your job and do it.
So I have to ask have you ever had a real job, one that took a decade or two to train for and master ? Lets say you did, and you worked continuously at it for another decade or two regularly putting in 150% plus of your contracted hours and bringing in multiple £ millions for your employer along the way. What if I then retrospectively pulled back a big chunk of the money I said I was going to invest on your behalf. Would you still be ok with that ?
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The RAR
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Mr Wednesday)
So if you think that's all academics do you really don't understand the job. For starters you missed teaching prep, project supervision, lab demonstrating, exam setting, marking, admin, chasing money, managing research and non-academic staff, doing research, peer review, publishing, PhD vivas, lab safety, college committees, NSS, TEF, REF and KEF.
Still nothing for a 60k per year salary, I assume they also get paid holidays as well (They must do). All these tasks really are nothing for the benefits they currently receive in return.
Students already pay high fees, what you want them to go higher? **** no
I may sound ignorant but that's what I think on the matter.
But they are more than welcome to strike, I ain't complaining.
Last edited by The RAR; 2 weeks ago
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PlantsGalore74
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#46
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#46
(Original post by wanjo1)
It's not right for anyone to strike at all. You're getting paid to do the job, so you best turn up to your job and do it.

If the pay is not enough, change industries or look for a higher role in the same industry. It's as simple as that.
Striking is absolutely pathetic.
This is extremely entitled, tyrannical and downright moronic of you to say. The lecturers are not the universities' puppets, and they deserve basic decency when it comes to their jobs.

Lecturers don't just teach - they have to do hours of preparation outside of their job hours to prepare for lectures and tutorials, they are students' ears when the university refuses to listen to them about their issues. They create the exam questions, the formatives, the summative, they mark the questions, they write academic papers and have to constantly check the news to keep up to date and provide students with a view on current topic that is understandable and coherent, they have to do over 16 hours a day of work and the university higher ups refuse to acknowledge that they are underfunded, overworked, stressed beyond belief and on limited resources that the universities say they will fix, but never do.

Not to mention that there are a limited number of jobs available at every university for lecturers. Who are YOU to say that they should change industries?! If you knew how much effort went in to one lecturer achieving the requirements to be able to teach at a university, the grades and the number of degrees in order to specialise in their particular degree subject, you would not have made such a stupid comment.
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Mr Wednesday
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#47
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#47
(Original post by The RAR)
Still nothing for a 60k per year salary, I assume they also get paid holidays as well (They must do). All these tasks really are nothing for the benefits they currently receive in return.
I call troll at this point, you really don't know what you are talking about.

How about you quickly explain to me the time and administrative load in putting together a REF impact statement and the fallout if you get it wrong ? How much research grant funding did you bring in last year to support extra staff that then teach because they want to, not because they have to ?

>> Students already pay high fees, what you want them to go higher? **** no

Yes they do, but those fee levels are mandated directly by Governent, not universities, if you are upset, go direct you anger at a politician.
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mnot
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#48
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#48
(Original post by The RAR)
Still nothing for a 60k per year salary, I assume they also get paid holidays as well (They must do). All these tasks really are nothing for the benefits they currently receive in return.
I may sound ignorant but that's what I think on the matter.
Many researchers work insane hours for £60K... I know plenty who an average week is like 70 hours, and most of the ones I know are on decarbonisation/efficiency of energy systems ie literally the front line scientists working on climate change, the work these people do is tremendous and the vast majority is published open source so everyone will benefit from their work. These people sacrifice their holidays, you'd be surprised how many where coming in to check in on the labs the week between X-mas & new year. These people dont deserve fixed term contracts, and tbh many deserve a lot more cash (money they would get if they went into industry...).

Now ill admit I have a bias im a PhD researchers and these are now my colleagues on some level, and I am in favour of the use of fixed term contracts I think they make sense for certain staff roles, particularly short-term teaching roles. Its a case of finding the right balance of who should be fixed term and who should be full-time (definitely some more should be full time).

But I would strongly recommend you re-consider the statement "Still nothing for a 60k per year salary" , some researchers are working finger to the bone on what is mostly fairly selfless work, granted I work in one sector and tbh most are on full-time deals but I just dont like that phrasing for the reasons ive already made.
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Confuro
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
More than a million students could be affected by staff walk outs over 2 weeks - 74 universities are facing cancelled lectures and absences.

Are you going to be affected by this? Do you support the people striking? Are you worried about potential impact on your work? What do you think universities should do?
I literally could not give less of a ****.
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The RAR
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Mr Wednesday)
I call troll at this point, you really don't know what you are talking about.

How about you quickly explain to me the time and administrative load in putting together a REF impact statement and the fallout if you get it wrong ? How much research grant funding did you bring in last year to support extra staff that then teach because they want to, not because they have to ?

>> Students already pay high fees, what you want them to go higher? **** no

Yes they do, but those fee levels are mandated directly by Governent, not universities, if you are upset, go direct you anger at a politician.
Do all professors have to write up a REF? No I don't know what happens if you get it wrong, public shaming or a boot from the uni I assume.
If they want higher pay, the government will surely be forced to increase the fees which will be billed to the students?
And I do not blame them at all for the strikes, I couldn't care less tbh
Last edited by The RAR; 2 weeks ago
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04MR17
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#51
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#51
Friendly request to keep discussion here polite, its clear that folks care a lot about this topic and lots of different views are extremely valid.
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04MR17
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#52
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#52
(Original post by The RAR)
Still nothing for a 60k per year salary, I assume they also get paid holidays as well (They must do). All these tasks really are nothing for the benefits they currently receive in return.
Students already pay high fees, what you want them to go higher? **** no
I may sound ignorant but that's what I think on the matter.
But they are more than welcome to strike, I ain't complaining.
I think its worth saying that this industrial action is only really being caused by the tuition fee system anyway. Since the government changed the HE funding system to give a far higher reliance on tuition fee income universities have regularly been losing money with each financial year. As with any financially struggling organisation, they end up making decisions to try and save money rather than benefit the institution's work, one of them being to do with pensions.

Strikes like this were less common when funding came directly from government, tuition fees are very much the problem. Especially when the money we pay goes to so much more within the university infrastructure than simply the teaching.
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The RAR
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#53
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#53
(Original post by 04MR17)
I think its worth saying that this industrial action is only really being caused by the tuition fee system anyway. Since the government changed the HE funding system to give a far higher reliance on tuition fee income universities have regularly been losing money with each financial year. As with any financially struggling organisation, they end up making decisions to try and save money rather than benefit the institution's work, one of them being to do with pensions.

Strikes like this were less common when funding came directly from government, tuition fees are very much the problem. Especially when the money we pay goes to so much more within the university infrastructure than simply the teaching.
That is very true
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eeiiiiio
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#54
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#54
(Original post by 1secondsofvamps)
Those who skip lectures or leave lectures early etc have no right to complain
Why not? Even if they don't attend all lectures doesn't mean they aren't paying for them to happen
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04MR17
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#55
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#55
(Original post by eeiiiiio)
Why not? Even if they don't attend all lectures doesn't mean they aren't paying for them to happen
I mean, legally speaking they aren't paying for them to happen. You're paying a university to provide you with a degree programme and to give you the opportunity of gaining a qualification at the end of it. Whether that degree programme consists of 12 lectures, 3 lectures or no lectures isn't part of the agreement you sign when you enroll at the university. It is at the discretion of the university and its staff as to how much teaching and contact hours are on offer.
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eeiiiiio
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#56
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#56
(Original post by 04MR17)
I mean, legally speaking they aren't paying for them to happen. You're paying a university to provide you with a degree programme and to give you the opportunity of gaining a qualification at the end of it. Whether that degree programme consists of 12 lectures, 3 lectures or no lectures isn't part of the agreement you sign when you enroll at the university. It is at the discretion of the university and its staff as to how much teaching and contact hours are on offer.
And there already aren't enough lectures as it is
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bones-mccoy
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#57
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#57
I'm also on the fence. I understand and agree with why they're striking, I'm just not sure the right people are on the receiving end of it.

There's been strikes at my uni but luckily none of my lecturers have been affected by it, I'm also a postgrad student so a lot of my learning is done independently anyway. I guess strikes meaning you miss a lecture or two isn't so bad but it could cause a real issue if your supervisor was striking and needed them to answer emails, make appointments, get feedback etc for your dissertation. If people striking starts affecting coursework and assignments then students should be given some kind of leeway, whether that's by pushing deadlines back or something similar.
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neuronal
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#58
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#58
I don't agree with the strikes but in all fairness to my Uni, they actually offered us financial compensation. Got £100 from a few weeks strikes so I can't say I'm that mad.
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Shimo
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#59
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#59
Means I get to go home for three weeks :woo:
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Nuttyy
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#60
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#60
It doesn't affect my lectures tbh lol, the majority of my 'lecturers' are guest speakers. Whatever area is being taught, the school invites the relevant specialist in that field to come and give a talk on it. So they're generally not on strike. But our tutorials are cancelled for this. The last time this happened, we had to skip an assessment as there weren't any tutors available to do them. Also, considering international students pay £43,000 per year for tuition fee on my course, it must burn a lot for them and they should be compensated relatively.

I agree with the strikes motive tho, the only way for the tutors to get what they want is to cause the most disruption, and the only way to do that is to stop the function of the institute itself (teaching and learning). It's an evil necessity for them, and an unfortunate circumstance for us the students.
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