Boris johnson and environmentalism Watch

Ferrograd
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I am surprised at his stance. On one hand his COP26 advisor said that Johnson admitted he "doesn't really understand climate change" yet here he was today making bold commitments. It's certainly a relief to hear that he is doing thinks like bringing forward the ban on petrol and diesel and some hybrids forward to 2035 and even earlier, as well as reforestation and other commitments. As a Labour supporter, I am surprised, perhaps even impressed, but we will see whether he will stick to this.
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Em.-.
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Remember the person who criticised him did so after being sacked, so obviously they’re not gonna praise him lol. I’m not a big fan of him, don’t hate him but don’t like him (more neutral), but I think banning the cars is good. Of course he can’t do it too soon as people will have bought cars and it wouldn’t be appreciated if they weren’t allowed to make use out of them and refunding them all would be a crazy amount of money. But 15 years notice seems decent, better than the previous 20 years.
Last edited by Em.-.; 2 weeks ago
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Em.-.)
Remember the person who criticised him did so after being sacked, so obviously they’re not gonna praise him lol. I’m not a big fan of him, don’t hate him but don’t like him (more neutral), but I think banning the cars is good. Of course he can’t do it too soon as people will have bought cars and it wouldn’t be appreciated if they weren’t allowed to make use out of them and refunding them all would be a crazy amount of money. But 15 years notice seems decent, better than the previous 20 years.
He's been sympathetic to skeptics before, but at least he's not taking the position of trump on it and stands against the usa on the issue. made me more hopeful that he won't sacrifice environmental protections in a trade deal with the usa but who knows
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Em.-.
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
He's been sympathetic to skeptics before, but at least he's not taking the position of trump on it and stands against the usa on the issue. made me more hopeful that he won't sacrifice environmental protections in a trade deal with the usa but who knows
The thing is, besides conspiracy theorists, many “skeptics” probably understand climate change is real but they simply care more about money, so saying they don’t believe it encourages the idea they aren’t doing anything wrong. Much like how many member of the general population know that travelling by vehicles all the time harms the environment but they continue to travel unnecessarily.

In many cases it’s simply economy vs environment, and many people will chose economy. I suppose it’s partly due to the idea that if they go “carbon neutral” but other people aren’t then how is that fair, which is why laws need to be put in place as many people just simply don’t care about harming the environment as they don’t get any direct personal consequence and again follow the idea that if other people aren’t making sacrifices then why should they?
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Em.-.)
The thing is, besides conspiracy theorists, many “skeptics” probably understand climate change is real but they simply care more about money, so saying they don’t believe it encourages the idea they aren’t doing anything wrong. Much like how many member of the general population know that travelling by vehicles all the time harms the environment but they continue to travel unnecessarily.

In many cases it’s simply economy vs environment, and many people will chose economy. I suppose it’s partly due to the idea that if they go “carbon neutral” but other people aren’t then how is that fair, which is why laws need to be put in place as many people just simply don’t care about harming the environment as they don’t get any direct personal consequence and again follow the idea that if other people aren’t making sacrifices then why should they?
Ironically, the sad thing is most environmental deniers are not mega-capitalists; they are ordinary people who decry "the elites", yet its that very elite that is feeding them the myth that climate change is a myth.
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Em.-.
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Ironically, the sad thing is most environmental deniers are not mega-capitalists; they are ordinary people who decry "the elites", yet its that very elite that is feeding them the myth that climate change is a myth.
Yep. Many of the “elites” know climate change is real, but don’t care and so want others to believe it’s a myth so they can continue doing what they’re doing without as much environmental criticism.

I also think there’s people who just enjoy the idea of a conspiracy theory, like flat earth or that the government is keeping aliens in Area 51, and hence think it would be interesting if climate change is a hoax to manipulate us in whatever way.
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mnot
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
It's certainly a relief to hear that he is doing thinks like bringing forward the ban on petrol and diesel and some hybrids forward to 2035 and even earlier,
This is a terrible idea TBH, I hope it gets quashed.. wont improve the co2 emissions from transport
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
I am surprised at his stance. On one hand his COP26 advisor said that Johnson admitted he "doesn't really understand climate change" yet here he was today making bold commitments. It's certainly a relief to hear that he is doing thinks like bringing forward the ban on petrol and diesel and some hybrids forward to 2035 and even earlier, as well as reforestation and other commitments. As a Labour supporter, I am surprised, perhaps even impressed, but we will see whether he will stick to this.
Johnson is an idiot. Today he has just destroyed the UK car industry because now people will hold off buying convensional cars whilst they wait for new models. Meanwhile there is no infrastructure to sustain a change anyway. If he was serious he could be announcing infrastructure and development with a view to setting an end date when we are ready.

The cynic in me thinks that since Brexit is likely to decimate the car industry this is a convenient cover and just more green wash.
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mnot
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Johnson is an idiot. Today he has just destroyed the UK car industry because now people will hold off buying convensional cars whilst they wait for new models. Meanwhile there is no infrastructure to sustain a change anyway. If he was serious he could be announcing infrastructure and development with a view to setting an end date when we are ready.

The cynic in me thinks that since Brexit is likely to decimate the car industry this is a convenient cover and just more green wash.
In fairness he is not an idiot, his advisors have seriously mis-advised him.

I dont see people holding off for 15 years average car does 180K miles so thats at least 3 generations of car for the average user, not to mention they will still be able to use cars purchased before the cut off.

It wont happen, infrastructure problem will be huge, not to mention the grid cant support it, forced to add more nuclear & carbon defeating the point of EVs

superchargers (EV charging, not engine component) are not viable for anything other than a limited number, much larger car manufacturing CO2 emissions and battery production is extremely CO2 heavy.

Many vehicle types simply cannot be supported by battery due to energy density constraints.

Hybrids will be the most efficient mechanism for most vehicles (and EV for localised inner city travel), with MHEV for heavy duty, potential for HEV-hydrogen in limited classes as well. Couple these systems to e-fuels & bio-fuel options will be much greener, as well as improved thermal efficiency of ICE (with new injection strategies such as HCCI) this will be most effective way to reduce CO2 from road transport its blindingly obvious.
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Wōden
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
I am surprised at his stance. On one hand his COP26 advisor said that Johnson admitted he "doesn't really understand climate change" yet here he was today making bold commitments. It's certainly a relief to hear that he is doing thinks like bringing forward the ban on petrol and diesel and some hybrids forward to 2035 and even earlier, as well as reforestation and other commitments. As a Labour supporter, I am surprised, perhaps even impressed, but we will see whether he will stick to this.
Sounds good to me (though I'm doubtful that petrol and diesel cars will have a viable replacement within just 15 years), especially reforestation. But will he properly address another environmental elephant in the room, immigration and overpopulation (the former being the biggest contributer to the latter in the UK)? I see little point in implementing all these green policies if they are just going to be undermined by continuing to cram more people into the country, thus increasing our overall environmental footprint. More people = more pollution, more waste, more food and good imports and more encroachment into green spaces to build houses and infrastructure.
Last edited by Wōden; 2 weeks ago
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Wōden)
Sounds good to me (though I'm doubtful that petrol and diesel cars will have a viable replacement within just 15 years), especially reforestation. But will he properly address another environmental elephant in the room, immigration and overpopulation (the former being the biggest contributer to the latter in the UK)? I see little point in implementing all these green policies if they are just going to be undermined by continuing to cram more people into the country, thus increasing our overall environmental footprint. More people = more pollution, more waste, more food and good imports and more encroachment into green spaces to build houses and infrastructure.
Overpopulation is NOT an issue in Western Europe. The population of most of Europe, especially the west, is declining. And UN figures show the population will actually decline or stabilise by 2050.
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Wōden
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Overpopulation is NOT an issue in Western Europe. The population of most of Europe, especially the west, is declining. And UN figures show the population will actually decline or stabilise by 2050.
Too long to wait and we could speed up the process by ditching the current policy of artificially propping up our populations with mass-immigration. If things remain as they are, projections suggest Britain's population could well reach around 80m by 2050, with the majority of that extra growth being down to immigration (as it has been over the last few decades too). We are at around 65m now, so that's going to be an extra 15 million people before things start to stabilise, or to put it into perspective, the equivalent of almost two Greater Londons. Leaving aside the cultural and demographic implications of this, where the hell are we going to build the equivalent of two Londons? How much damage would it do to Britain's already dwindling ecology? And is it really worth it for a few extra percentage points on the GDP? Nobody seems to be addressing these questions.

We are already working overtime to provide enough housing infrastructure for our population as it stands. I visited a town I used to live near when I was kid recently and was dismayed to see how much development has gone on over the past 20 or so years. It's literally doubled in size, thousands of acres of farmland, wildflower meadows, hedgerows and copses I remember as a kid, all gone, all ripped up and concreted over with some godawful Toy-Townesque suburb. That's just in one town, it's happing all over the country as we speak. Is that good for the environment? Can you still sit there and tell me there isn't an issue with population?
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Quady
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Johnson is an idiot. Today he has just destroyed the UK car industry because now people will hold off buying convensional cars whilst they wait for new models. Meanwhile there is no infrastructure to sustain a change anyway. If he was serious he could be announcing infrastructure and development with a view to setting an end date when we are ready.

The cynic in me thinks that since Brexit is likely to decimate the car industry this is a convenient cover and just more green wash.
People today looking to buy a new car are put off because of the resale value in 15 years time? Really?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Quady)
People today looking to buy a new car are put off because of the resale value in 15 years time? Really?
People put off buying new car off the back of emmissions scandal that doesn't affect them directly? Really? Oh yes. That happened.

People and businesses put of purchasing of large ticket items and investments because of uncertainty caused by Brexit? Really? Oh yes. That happened too.

Here was have a PM speculating about a policy that is currently undeliverable. So for many people who might buy a car on a whim or because that is what they do each year - they are going to put off that decision because of uncertainty. After all, the government could whack a massive tax on new cars next year. Who knows? Is it worth the risk?
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Quady
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(Original post by ByEeek)
People put off buying new car off the back of emmissions scandal that doesn't affect them directly? Really? Oh yes. That happened.

People and businesses put of purchasing of large ticket items and investments because of uncertainty caused by Brexit? Really? Oh yes. That happened too.

Here was have a PM speculating about a policy that is currently undeliverable. So for many people who might buy a car on a whim or because that is what they do each year - they are going to put off that decision because of uncertainty. After all, the government could whack a massive tax on new cars next year. Who knows? Is it worth the risk?
No it's not worth the risk.

Just as folk are put off buying food at Tescos because of the horsemeat scandal and people going vegan after foot and mouth.

I've not owned a car since 2013 as it wasnt worth the risk. My V8 Jag went for auction
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