Anti-Semitic sculpture to remain on German church Watch

Napp
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I'm curious as to what peoples views on this are. Is this but a gross over reaction to an historical objet d'art? Or is this a proportionate response to a new unacceptable piece of art?

Personally i'd say he needs to climb down off of his high horse on the matter. He doesnt have to approve of the piece to acknowledge that its of historical significance. All these attempts to whitewash history would seem more damaging than the actual item itself.


A 13th-Century anti-Semitic carving may remain on the wall of a church in Wittenberg, Germany, a court has ruled.
A Jewish man, Michael Düllmann, is seeking to have the sculpture removed.
The relief shows a rabbi lifting a sow's tail and peering at its behind while other Jewish figures suckle on her teats. Pigs are considered unclean under Jewish law.
The image is on the wall of the Stadtkirche, where Protestant reformer Martin Luther preached.
Portrayals of Jews in obscene association with female pigs were used as a way of mocking them and their religion in the Middle Ages.
Mr Düllmann told local broadcaster MDR ahead of the ruling, that as long as the "Judensau" remained on the wall, the Church would be guilty of promulgating anti-Semitism.
Luther himself produced a tirade of anti-Semitic writings, arguing that synagogues and Jewish homes should be burned and Jews be expelled. The theologian's texts, including one entitled On the Jews and Their Lies, were quoted by the Nazis four centuries later.
  • In the 1980s the Church community in the east German town installed a memorial on the ground next to the church's wall, which refers to the six million Jews murdered during the Third Reich.


There is also an information board, erected more recently, which aims to put the anti-Semitic relief in its historical context. These additions informed Tuesday's ruling by the regional appeals court of Saxony-Anhalt, in Naumburg.
The court found that while the sculpture would be offensive if viewed in isolation, "in the context in which it has been placed by the church it has lost its insulting character", according to spokesman Henning Haberland.
The church's pastor, Johannes Block, told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper that having the sculpture on the facade of the church filled him "with shame and pain".
"We are trying to deal with this difficult inheritance responsibly," he told the paper (in German). The parish wanted to leave the carving in place as a reminder of the anti-Semitism of the Middle Ages, and of the anti-Semitic features of Luther's theology, he explained.
The court ruled that Mr Düllmann may still take the case to Germany's highest court in Karlsruhe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51380171
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DiddyDec
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We should not try to whitewash history, it is important to view it in context and use it as a tool of reflection.
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Captain Haddock
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Meh. I'm sure that church has gone through several renovations and alterations throughout its history. This carving could just as well be preserved in a local museum, where it can be better contextualised. Keeping it on an active, working church seems somewhat tasteless.
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Leviathan1611
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if you a don't like the statue, don't look at it. not that hard.
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chazwomaq
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(Original post by Captain Haddock)
Meh. I'm sure that church has gone through several renovations and alterations throughout its history. This carving could just as well be preserved in a local museum, where it can be better contextualised. Keeping it on an active, working church seems somewhat tasteless.
Surely the best context is the place where it was originally installed. It can serve as a reminder of what times were like. The information board seems like a good solution.
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username1539513
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(Original post by Napp)
I'm curious as to what peoples views on this are. Is this but a gross over reaction to an historical objet d'art? Or is this a proportionate response to a new unacceptable piece of art?

Personally i'd say he needs to climb down off of his high horse on the matter. He doesnt have to approve of the piece to acknowledge that its of historical significance. All these attempts to whitewash history would seem more damaging than the actual item itself.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51380171
Speaking from a Christian scriptural perspective it’d probably be good for the church to remove it; Paul writes about actions of Christians not becoming a “stumbling block” to others and that as far as possible Christians should seek to live peacefully.
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Napp
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Isnt the historical christian view that jews are bad? As in the past two millennium (more or less)?
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username1539513
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(Original post by Napp)
Isnt the historical christian view that jews are bad? As in the past two millennium (more or less)?
A view borne more of irrational prejudice than the New Testament tbh; Jesus Himself was a Jew after all
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Napp
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Not sure its that easy to dismiss all of christian history as 'irrational prejudice'?
Indeed on the last bit though, although the view that 'the jews killed him' seems to still be in relatively wide circulation.
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username1539513
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(Original post by Napp)
Not sure its that easy to dismiss all of christian history as 'irrational prejudice'?
Indeed on the last bit though, although the view that 'the jews killed him' seems to still be in relatively wide circulation.
You know my view on Christian doctrine as far as history and non biblical doctrine is concerned; proponents of the “Dah jews killed jesus” view typically fail to understand that nobody forced Jesus into dying; it was something he took up willingly to save everyone from sin. In the gospels Jesus describes how he could summon a huge army of angels to defend himself if he so wanted to.
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Captain Haddock
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(Original post by chazwomaq)
Surely the best context is the place where it was originally installed. It can serve as a reminder of what times were like. The information board seems like a good solution.
Its original context doesn't exist anymore. As I say it's an active church, and if I was its pastor, or even just a churchgoer, I wouldn't want that **** on my church. I'd want my place of worship to change to reflect the present day values of my faith - as this particular church has indeed done throughout its history.
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Pinkisk
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I don't think this is an attempt to whitewash history. This is an attempt to remove something abusive. The sculpture is abusive. Its derogatory. I think its only natural that people it targets with abuse want it removed.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 2 weeks ago
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PolishPowah
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Talmund is full of hate including Jewish ethno supremacy and even encourages genocide of non-Jews

I guess some hate is acceptable...
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by PolishPowah)
Talmund is full of hate including Jewish ethno supremacy and even encourages genocide of non-Jews

I guess some hate is acceptable...
Cite examples of some of that "Jewish ethno supremacy" and encouragement of genocide in the Talmud will you.
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