Doing a Second Undergraduate Degree

Hi all!
I've just finished my first year doing physics at oxford, and I'm enjoying it.
It was a tough decision between physics and PPE for me though, and since coming to oxford I've only become more interested in PPE. I'm considering doing the 3 year course for physics and then, if I got in, doing a second undergraduate degree of PPE (probably at oxford).
I've been looking at a few graduate prospectuses for alternatives, which say you're not required to have a previous qualification in economics etc. but it seems silly to miss out all the foundations of the subjects by not doing a related undergraduate degree first?
So my question is, would I be allowed to apply again as an undergraduate (I'd have just turned 21 at the start of my first year) to a 'normal' college, or would it need to be a mature students college?
Is this a vaguely common thing for people to do? and would I be greatly disadvantaged in the application process or simply required to be as good as other, younger, successful applicants?
Basically, I'm really interested in PPE and looking for any advice as to the best way of pursuing that interest after I've completed my physics degree.
Thanks in advance for any help!

Reply 1

snail_87

All i know is, that if you have done one honours degree already, and go on to do another degree, then Student Loans will NOT give you another student loan. Be prepared to be in some serious debt.

Reply 2

windcriesmary

Ergh yes, I thought that might be the case.
It would be a hell of a lot of debt :frown:

seems a shame to base my education on financial issues though.

I have just found a fairly useful paragraph of info on the oxford website about this.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_apply/graduate_applicants.html
if anyone's interested.

Reply 3

Kitty Pimms

windcriesmary

Ergh yes, I thought that might be the case.
It would be a hell of a lot of debt :frown:

You also have to pay the college fee, so you're looking at 8k a year tuition and no student loan. It's a really rubbish financial deal.

That said, it's not totally unusual. PPE and law are the most common second BAs and most of the undergrad colleges do accept students for the 2nd BA (but there are a couple of exceptions - New being one, I think?). You may also be eligible for senior status, which would cut a year off the qualification. :smile:

Reply 4

Athena

windcriesmary

If it's only economics you're interested, go the route Edders took and do a postgraduate course in Economics after your physics degree - save yourself paying the full cost (~£12,000 per annum) of a three year PPE degree.

Reply 5

thomasjtl

A masters in economics that doesn't require an undergrad degree in economics wouldn't miss out on the foundations of the subject- that just wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

Reply 6

thomasjtl

he still wouldn't have to pay full cost- he'd be paying £3K + college fee, without loan to cover them, but he'd still get the maintenence loan.

Reply 7

SuperDaz

You mean they don't teach PPPE? What a jip :frown:

I dont see what value another BA would give you tbh. What do you actually want to do? You're better off doing a MA. If you just enjoy learning about PPE then theres nothing to stop you doing that privately after.

Is it just a case of avoiding real work for as long as possible? I mean we'd all love to do that :wink:

Reply 8

Ad-Alta

Personally (unless you can afford to indulge your educational appetite :wink:

) I don't think it sounds worth it to do a whole undergraduate just so you can do PPE. What career do you want in the future? Would doing PPE help you towards that, or are you just wanting to do it 'just because'? As people have been saying - are there no one year postgraduate qualifications you could perhaps consider?

I'm doing SS Law at Cambridge, but that's only because 1) I wanted to give myself a bit of an advantage (imo) over all the CPE/GDL people and 2) I doubt I would've been able to do an LLM with my first degree.

As regards applications, I doubt you'd be at a disadvantage - in fact, I always think mature students (who have already done a degree) are in a better position than those fresh out of school. Not only have you got a degree under your belt already, but you know how the interview system works, you've settled at the university (as you're staying at Oxford) etc etc. Also, unless it's specifically stated by a college that they don't take mature undergrads, then you'd be free to apply to any of them.

However, at the end of the day, the main issue here seems to be funding, so if you think you can manage it financially, then you might as well - who are we to tell you not to keep learning? :p:

Reply 9

xamethystx

Hey, I don't know if this will be any use to you but I've found an MA in PPE at York:

http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/pep/grad/admissions/index.htm

Reply 10

xamethystx

oh here's a better link, its in more detail:

http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/pep/grad/admissions/mappe.htm

Reply 11

Kitty Pimms

thomasjtl

he still wouldn't have to pay full cost- he'd be paying £3K + college fee, without loan to cover them, but he'd still get the maintenence loan.

This is wrong, incidentally - you don't get a maintenance loan, a tuitition fee loan, nada (or at least, that was certainly what I discovered when looking into it last year, so unless they've changed the system since that remains the case).

As of next year, universities are also able to charge more than the maximum tuition fees for first time undergraduates under the ELQ scheme. So really, they can charge as much as they like.

Reply 12

thomasjtl

You're right, i'd forgotten that they were doing away with the right to funding for a second degree. Last time i checked it, though, you could still get a maintenence loan.

Reply 13

Kitty Pimms

thomasjtl

You're right, i'd forgotten that they were doing away with the right to funding for a second degree. Last time i checked it, though, you could still get a maintenence loan.

Nah, not unless you do a medical degree or one leading to a professional qualification (except law).

Reply 14

hermaphrodite

I thought if you do do PPE as a second degree at Oxford, it only took two years as opppose to three? :s-smilie:

Reply 15

Ad-Alta

hermaphrodite

I thought if you do do PPE as a second degree at Oxford, it only took two years as opppose to three? :s-smilie:

That's if you choose to do it as a 'mature' student (i.e. you have a prior degree) - if you wanted to you could still do the normal three year undergrad.

Reply 16

Elles

Ad-Alta

That's if you choose to do it as a 'mature' student (i.e. you have a prior degree) - if you wanted to you could still do the normal three year undergrad.

'Mature' usually just means over 21 (arbitrary as the age at which a standard school leaver would have finished a 3 year undergrad degree) rather than having a prior degree at honours level. :smile:

Mature Students at Oxford

Tutors will take work experience and life skills into account, alongside academic or professional qualifications but candidates would be expected to have at least the equivalent of two good recent A-levels in order to make a competitive application. This could include Access to Higher Education qualifications, Open University courses, foundation degrees, HNDs or other qualifications.

Being 'mature' means you can apply to Harris Manchester & might alter the way accommodation/practical things work at other colleges.

It's doing a *second* undergraduate degree (rather than just being an older student) where you can apply to gain "Senior status", but the wording makes it sound like that's an additional thing to sort rather than the automatic norm.

Graduate Applicants to Undergraduate Courses at Oxford

Candidates may apply for ‘Senior Status’, which gives them direct entry to the second year of the course. However, Senior Status is not automatically granted: the criterion for achieving such status is an approved degree at an approved university, obtained after courses extending over at least three years at that university.

Reply 17

someGuy1993

If you have an undergraduate degree, but want to apply as a 'mature' student, is that possible?