Climate change could cause Western Europe to become much colder - NASA Watch

Ferrograd
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https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro....html#comments

Interesting article. There's been quite a bit about recently about how we could see another ice age. Most of it is rubbish but this seems credible given its from NASA. People seem to forget that the jet stream could slow down because of warming, which would cause europe to become colder. some say that the difference would be neglible due to current warming, others say we were due an ice age but the emissions from the industrial revolution averted it. I guess it just shows how no one actually knows what the future climate of places will be and how stupid it is to try and predict them, like the one that matched london's climate to barcelona in 2050. If this is the case, I guess it's somewhat okay news, i think cold is better than hot, but obviously not like The year without a summer which would be equally bad for food production,
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Napp
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Well if it gets me a snowy christmas im happy.
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Kevan L
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I see no sign of it getting colder these past two winters have been very warm, I think the end is near for the planet.
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username1539513
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro....html#comments

Interesting article. There's been quite a bit about recently about how we could see another ice age. Most of it is rubbish but this seems credible given its from NASA. People seem to forget that the jet stream could slow down because of warming, which would cause europe to become colder. some say that the difference would be neglible due to current warming, others say we were due an ice age but the emissions from the industrial revolution averted it. I guess it just shows how no one actually knows what the future climate of places will be and how stupid it is to try and predict them, like the one that matched london's climate to barcelona in 2050. If this is the case, I guess it's somewhat okay news, i think cold is better than hot, but obviously not like The year without a summer which would be equally bad for food production,
Good, I would love that
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BasicMistake
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Gulf stream rather than jet stream.

And I just see this as bad news since everything in this country stops working the moment it hits -1C.

Then imagine Canadian winters in the UK.
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Napp
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(Original post by Kevan L)
I see no sign of it getting colder these past two winters have been very warm, I think the end is near for the planet.
How so? The planet has been significantly warmer in the past and pootled along quite nicely...
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Napp)
Well if it gets me a snowy christmas im happy.
Me too. Though I wouldn't want summers to be ridiculously cold
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by BasicMistake)
Gulf stream rather than jet stream.

And I just see this as bad news since everything in this country stops working the moment it hits -1C.

Then imagine Canadian winters in the UK.
Everything stops working when temperatures in summer hit 30C or even 25C, like literally our trains and roads. We have a very mild climate so there really are no extremes
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Kevan L)
I see no sign of it getting colder these past two winters have been very warm, I think the end is near for the planet.
I agree with this winter hasn't been cold, but there were actually some extreme cold last February, two days of anomalously high temperatures boosted by el nino and a Foehn effect has defined it though. But your argument is like climate change deniers whenever we have an outbreak of extreme cold it means global warming is false. There have been articles from the lates 80s that said we had until 2000 to save the planet. Either we have no chance of saving it, or , those claims were exaggerated.

Carbon emissions in the UK have consistently fallen as have Europe and even China, it's the USA, India and Russia that need less
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z-hog
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Carbon emissions in the UK have consistently fallen as have Europe and even China, it's the USA, India and Russia that need less
The growth of global emissions in 2019 was almost entirely due to China, which increased its CO2 output by 0.26GtCO2. The rest of the world actually reduced its emissions by -0.02GtCO2, thanks to falling coal use in the US and Europe, as well as much more modest increases in India and the rest of the world, compared to previous years.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis...9-due-to-china
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by z-hog)
The growth of global emissions in 2019 was almost entirely due to China, which increased its CO2 output by 0.26GtCO2. The rest of the world actually reduced its emissions by -0.02GtCO2, thanks to falling coal use in the US and Europe, as well as much more modest increases in India and the rest of the world, compared to previous years.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis...9-due-to-china
It is a concern, China's efforts with solar energy seem to be overshadowed by their continued reliance on coal, which is odd given they have the technology and innovation to use other methods and at a time when everyone else is ditching it.

In reality, groups like XR should be focusing their attention on China and those countries. I'm not trying to be a boomer, it's not about blaming othee people , but look what the UK has done. We've reached forestry levels we had in medieval times. Just the other day we banned petrol and diesel beyond 2035. We have had consistently falling emissions....
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z-hog
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
In reality, groups like XR should be focusing their attention on China and those countries. I'm not trying to be a boomer, it's not about blaming othee people , but look what the UK has done. We've reached forestry levels we had in medieval times. Just the other day we banned petrol and diesel beyond 2035. We have had consistently falling emissions....
XR whip up hysteria because that is the only way they can make themselves noticed and rolled into the BBC studios, every mildly mannered scientist knows their claims are a fraud. In that sense, I can see how it works for them even if they don't believe their own apocalyptic scaremongering keeping the children awake at night. But let's say they actually believe it all...

It's the CND revisited in every aspect, a bunch of lefties deluded about their sense of self-importance in this world. Corbyn and his friends believed they could rid the world of nukes and of course they couldn't, the world is a much bigger place. Same thing with the climate bomb, they say that we must take the lead and show the rest of the world the way. That we can change everything, that it all depends on Boris. That we are not doing enough, as if we were that influential on this earth. We will never do enough without the rest of the world on board, we are too small to make a difference.

That is not saying there isn't room for us to do something, the air quality in our cities alone is a good reason for it. But all this claptrap that we have to bring our emissions down to nothing in a few years is the same type of misguided talk as with the CND. The Paris agreement is a deal on the West curbing emissions at home while China, India and the rest of the developing world have theirs going up to close the economic gap.

I actually see where Trump was coming from pulling out of it, it may all be a front that delivers no global reductions in emissions at all. That's what it is at the moment anyway.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by z-hog)
XR whip up hysteria because that is the only way they can make themselves noticed and rolled into the BBC studios, every mildly mannered scientist knows their claims are a fraud. In that sense, I can see how it works for them even if they don't believe their own apocalyptic scaremongering keeping the children awake at night. But let's say they actually believe it all...

It's the CND revisited in every aspect, a bunch of lefties deluded about their sense of self-importance in this world. Corbyn and his friends believed they could rid the world of nukes and of course they couldn't, the world is a much bigger place. Same thing with the climate bomb, they say that we must take the lead and show the rest of the world the way. That we can change everything, that it all depends on Boris. That we are not doing enough, as if we were that influential on this earth. We will never do enough without the rest of the world on board, we are too small to make a difference.

That is not saying there isn't room for us to do something, the air quality in our cities alone is a good reason for it. But all this claptrap that we have to bring our emissions down to nothing in a few years is the same type of misguided talk as with the CND. The Paris agreement is a deal on the West curbing emissions at home while China, India and the rest of the developing world have theirs going up to close the economic gap.

I actually see where Trump was coming from pulling out of it, it may all be a front that delivers no global reductions in emissions at all. That's what it is at the moment anyway.
It's symbolic though isn't it? Trump pulling out of it shows he doesn't care for the environment. Basically every country in the world signed it. Trump just changed laws so companies could dump sewage and chemicals in actual drinking water

As for XR, I actually met an XR member and talked about their methods regarding the tube incident. He completely disagreed with the actions of what appeared to be a rogue member. I attended their protest, well, a small gathering. It was cringey Tbh. Some kind of memorial for all the animals who died in Australia. Walking around in a circle and playing a bong every two seconds. It's a shame
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z-hog
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Trump pulling out of it shows he doesn't care for the environment. .
Or it could be symbolic of his belief that the Paris agreement will end up next to the Tokyo one in the bin, that in a decade or two emissions will still be going up globally while we are herded into the electric at a prohibitive cost. By then, politicians will have to look like doing something in the face of economic realities and we'll end up with another agreement celebrated somewhere with a thousand people flying over. Let's hope planes are electric too by then, or powered by turbines all over the wings.
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z-hog
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ps, I meant the Kyoto treaty, it's an anagram for Tokyo anyway. This climate issue is the dream ticket in every aspect for lefties dreaming of bringing capitalism down and also for the first generation that didn't go out to play.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by z-hog)
ps, I meant the Kyoto treaty, it's an anagram for Tokyo anyway. This climate issue is the dream ticket in every aspect for lefties dreaming of bringing capitalism down and also for the first generation that didn't go out to play.
I am a "lefty".

XR claimed that it is the "only way" to "bring down capitalism", which is ironic. If they really are right, then we have no chance. I don't believe this is a overtly anti-capitalist movement anyway...the thing is is that oil companies and even acitviists like thunberg insist on bringing down personal emissions rather than companies that pollute.

Caring for the environment isn't even anything to do with the normal left/right spectrum. Granted, today it is mostly a leftwing/centre cause but it's not that easy. In Austria, the far right government there is in coalition with the green party and have introduced environemntal policies. In italy, the right wing Lega is in coalition with the M5S and now teaches climate change in schools. Some would even argue the Nazis were pro-environment, indeed many modern fascists, known as "eco-fascists" take this view, albeit they believe immigration should also be reduced as according to them this negatively impacts the environment.
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PTMalewski
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I'd like that. Finally some snow to drift on.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
I'd like that. Finally some snow to drift on.
I thought the same, but think about it, we'd have the same climate as northern canada (maybe not as extreme due to warming but still much worse) which would deliver cold winters, but also much colder summers. and this too would then affect places like spain and italy, like they would lose out as being holiday destinations etc, we'd have to travel farther and farther for holiday sun. Not to mention the fact crops would not grow. so whilst i would like some more snow and cold in winter, i also don't want to see summers where we don't go above 20c
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
I thought the same, but think about it, we'd have the same climate as northern canada (maybe not as extreme due to warming but still much worse) which would deliver cold winters, but also much colder summers. and this too would then affect places like spain and italy, like they would lose out as being holiday destinations etc, we'd have to travel farther and farther for holiday sun. Not to mention the fact crops would not grow. so whilst i would like some more snow and cold in winter, i also don't want to see summers where we don't go above 20c
Of course. I recon the dangers of climate change. Want to limit CO2 and other gas emissions? I'm for it. Just as long the law is written wisely, thus, efficient,
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z-hog
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That's right, the environment is not the preserve of any political quadrant. However, the environment was the most obvious cause left to disappointed socialists when the USSR collapsed and it still is something they all latch on to and use to let their politics flow through. They are called Melons, for being Green on the surface but Red underneath it. Twitter is packed with them, the traditional anti-capitalists campaigning for every minority they can get their hands on and for the abolition of borders so everybody in the world can escape the catastrophe and come live with us. It's not all about the physical environment, they're even more concerned about the social one.

The main problem is the way the issue is hijacked by all sorts of political quacks and hangers on for all sorts of self-serving reasons, beyond the obvious financial interests invested and collected by governments and a thousand other agencies. Also the media, people who make wind turbines and land owners for them to go on, Elon Musk, electricity suppliers, City traders on carbon-credits, too many to name.

So much money is made out of it all that it begs the question: were there to be a decrease in global temperatures over the next decade, would we be told? Or would we be told something else that wouldn't jeopardise all of those interests put together? In other words, were the IPCC and the scientific community briefed and paid to look for other possible explanations for the observable changes and non-human related...would they find any? We'll never know but we do know the IPCC was originally set up in order to identify any human-related influence, could they ever come back and say something else? That's not denying anything, just qualifying the premises.

ps, that's a reply to Ferrograd, quote went up in smoke like a greenhouse gas. Tax-free, hopefully.
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