'Men's Rights' et al communities becoming more extreme

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adam271
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Pinkisk)
Tell that to the tens of millions of homeless, street children around the world over 80% of whom are male.

What a stupid example. Equating child poverty to male right groups. Not least because most male right groups couldn't give a crap about people in poverty because there to busy feeling sorry for themselves.
Also If your gonna cite a YouTube video don't make it a 2hour one..

Is my original post wrong? I'm curious what you actually think.
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Pinkisk
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Joe312)
What have either of those things got to do with feminism?
The suffragettes were feminists?

Your comment was poorly written. If you think that ridiculing people is something to be proud of then that really speaks volumes for you and the feminism that you stand for.

These replies are all proving what I have written about feminism so far.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 1 month ago
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Joe312
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#43
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
The suffragettes were feminists?
And Hitler was a vegetarian. So do his actions as a Nazi reflect on vegetarianism?

Just because a feminist did something bad, that doesn't mean they did it BECAUSE of their feminism.

No, you have to actually explain the link between the white flower actions and feminism if you want to suggest it had something to do with feminism. I'm not aware of a link between feminist ideology and the white flower actions.
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Joe312
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#44
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
Your comment was poorly written. If you think that ridiculing people is something to be proud of then that really speaks volumes for you and the feminism that you stand for.

These replies are all proving what I have written about feminism so far.
Sorry I didn't realise you were a snowflake. Do you need a safe space?
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Captain Haddock
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#45
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#45
(Original post by adam271)
What a stupid example. Equating child poverty to male right groups. Not least because most male right groups couldn't give a crap about people in poverty because there to busy feeling sorry for themselves.
Also If your gonna cite a YouTube video don't make it a 2hour one..

Is my original post wrong? I'm curious what you actually think.
Yep. The 'Manosphere' is 100% just one big pity party for lonely, sexless men. They could have some valid points about things like homelessness and male suicide, but they completely lack the intellectual tools to properly contextualise these issues and put forward a coherent case because they're too busy blaming all their personal failings on women or feminists or 'chads' or whatever. But most importantly, they don't actually give a ****. I've literally never seen one of these dorks bring up these issues without having the pretence of whinging about feminists.
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Pinkisk
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Joe312)
And Hitler was a vegetarian. So do his actions as a Nazi reflect on vegetarianism?
This is a false equivalence. In Hitler and Vegetarianism, you are associating an ideology with a diet. In my comparison I am associating feminism with the actions of its most celebrated and universally accepted icons.

(Original post by Joe312)
Just because a feminist did something bad, that doesn't mean they did it BECAUSE of their feminism.
A feminist? This is a group of the most highly celebrated feminists of all time. Individuals that globally numbered in the hundreds of thousands.

(Original post by Joe312)
No, you have to actually explain the link between the white flower actions and feminism if you want to suggest it had something to do with feminism. I'm not aware of a link between feminist ideology and the white flower actions.
White Feather...not white flower...

What is the link between feminism and the White Feather Campaign? Lets have Sylvia Pankurst, daughter of the leader of the Suffragette movement here in the UK, answer that question for you:


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Joe312
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Pinkisk)
This is a false equivalence. In Hitler and Vegetarianism, you are associating an ideology with a diet. In my comparison I am associating feminism with the actions of its most celebrated and universally accepted icons.



A feminist? This is a group of the most highly celebrated feminists of all time. Individuals that globally numbered in the hundreds of thousands.



White Feather...not white flower...

What is the link between feminism and the White Feather Campaign? Lets have Sylvia Pankurst, daughter of the leader of the Suffragette movement here in the UK, answer that question for you:


Vegetarianism is an ideology, there is a whole ethic behind it.

You've not understood my point - I'm asking you what is the link between feminist ideology and the white feather campaign. It's not good enough for you to point out that some feminists were involved in it, because their involvement in it might have nothing to do with their feminism.

You have to explain why the white feather campaign logically derives from feminist principles. I do not see how it does. You've only pointed out that feminists were involved in it, not why it was feminist. Surely you see that difference.
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Joe312
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Pinkisk)
A feminist? This is a group of the most highly celebrated feminists of all time. Individuals that globally numbered in the hundreds of thousands.
Yes and Issac Newton was the greatest Physicist of all time, yet he still tried to turn lead into gold believing in Alchemy because even he sucked at science sometimes.

So I don't give a **** how great a feminist was involved in the white feather movement, unless you can explain what the actual ideological link between feminism and the white feather movement is then you haven't managed to rule out their involvement having nothing to do with feminism but actually being a failure of their adherence to feminism, as I would argue that it was.
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Pinkisk
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#49
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(Original post by Joe312)
Yes and Issac Newton was the greatest Physicist of all time, yet he still tried to turn lead into gold believing in Alchemy because even he sucked at science sometimes.

So I don't give a **** how great a feminist was involved in the white feather movement, unless you can explain what the actual ideological link between feminism and the white feather movement is then you haven't managed to rule out their involvement having nothing to do with feminism but actually being a failure of their adherence to feminism, as I would argue that it was.
You are more evidence of what I stated earlier in this thread about followers of feminism blindly defending this movement. You clearly do not know anything about the white feather campaign (not movement) yet you are here trying to disconnect it from feminism. Again, providing more evidence to support the fact that feminists will do anything to justify the crimes against humanity pervasive throughout their movement.

The White Feather Campaign was a campaign started by the suffragettes in the first (and second) world wars aimed at shaming men to enlist in the army and fight to protect women, a notion popular amongst early feminist activists. The Suffragettes are accepted by all feminists as icons of this movement. They started a feminist campaign that pressured men to die in the tens of thousands to protect women and their interests. You clearly do not know anything about this campaign. Not even its name. Yet you are here blindly defending feminism against it. This is a blind bias.
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Joe312
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Pinkisk)
You are more evidence of what I stated earlier in this thread about followers of feminism blindly defending this movement. You clearly do not know anything about the white feather campaign (not movement) yet you are here trying to disconnect it from feminism. Again, providing more evidence to support the fact that feminists will do anything to justify the crimes against humanity pervasive throughout their movement.

The White Feather Campaign was a campaign started by the suffragettes in the first (and second) world wars aimed at shaming men to enlist in the army and fight to protect women, a notion popular amongst early feminist activists. The Suffragettes are accepted by all feminists as icons of this movement. They started a feminist campaign that pressured men to die in the tens of thousands to protect women and their interests. You clearly do not know anything about this campaign. Not even its name. Yet you are here blindly defending feminism against it. This is biased.
Yes I don't know anything about it, but I know that shaming men into enlisting to fight in a war has nothing to do with feminist ideology.

You still have not been able to explain that link.

You keep pointing out that feminists were involved in it, but as I've explained many times now, their involvement in it might have had nothing to do with their feminism but in fact been a failure of their adherence to feminism, which I'd argue it was.

It's not difficult to understand that not everything done by a feminist necessarily reflects on feminism. If you think it does, then explain that connection between feminist ideology and participation in the white feather campaign.

Your responses of pointing out that feminists were involved in it, or that I just don't know the history, are not sufficing to explain the link between feminist ideology and the white feather campaign. It's starting to look like you know you actually can't manage to explain that link.

Just because a feminist does something bad... that doesn't mean they did it because of feminist ideology. If you want to make that connection then you have to explain the link. How much longer can you pretend not to understand that?
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adam271
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#51
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#51
I didn't think this thread was about feminism.
Yet most of the responses are about either criticising or defending feminism.

Current feminism is fragmented and mostly childish and toothless. Most people can't even agree what feminism is anymore mainly due to misinformation spread about it by its detractors.

Just like the 'mens rights' groups.

Both are mostly infantile and feel entitled. But at least feminism is not jumping on the bandwagon which is what men's rights groups are cynically doing.

Pinkish
What is your view of men's rights groups?
I get you don't like feminism.
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Pinkisk
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Joe312)
Yes I don't know anything about it, but I know that shaming men into enlisting to fight in a war has nothing to do with feminist ideology.

You still have not been able to explain that link.

You keep pointing out that feminists were involved in it, but as I've explained many times now, their involvement in it might have had nothing to do with their feminism but in fact been a failure of their adherence to feminism, which I'd argue it was.

It's not difficult to understand that not everything done by a feminist necessarily reflects on feminism. If you think it does, then explain that connection between feminist ideology and participation in the white feather campaign.

Your responses of pointing out that feminists were involved in it, or that I just don't know the history, are not sufficing to explain the link between feminist ideology and the white feather campaign. It's starting to look like you know you actually can't manage to explain that link.

Just because a feminist does something bad... that doesn't mean they did it because of feminist ideology. If you want to make that connection then you have to explain the link. How much longer can you pretend not to understand that?
Feminist group does a heinous crime that involves the deaths of tens of thousands of men.
Feminist group celebrated by all feminist theorists/theologians as heroes, throughout time.
Ergo feminism is accepting of a movement that is involved in the murder tens of thousands of men.

Let us use your Hitler analogy. Hitler was an antisemite who murdered millions of Jews. Ideologies who celebrate this man as a hero are ideologies that are flawed.

Feminism is a flawed ideology for idolising genocidal maniacs.
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Cryoraptor
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Napp)
Meh cant be as bad as mumsnet and some of those truly ghastly and vulgar groups around militant feminism "men are trash" anybody?
I like to think some of the more toxic feminists you see on the internet are just trolls who do it for the attention but unfortunately it seems like more and more feminists are finding it acceptable to encourage fundamentally discriminatory ideas.

It doesn't measure up to how insanely toxic and cancerous Hollywood has become. That is a complete pit of AIDS that will only be fixed by people realising that megastars are attention-seeking idiots void of any talent who had their parents buy their careers for them that will say what is seen as popular at the time and that they only support feminism and other SJWisms because it's getting them attention. If keeping women inferior to men and in the kitchen was a popular idea, you can bet that most if not all of Hollywood would be right behind that. It's really sad that people actually listen to what megastars have to say as if they have any idea what normal people experience.

Anyway, that's my rant about Hollywood over. You can probably tell I'm not the biggest fan haha
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adam271
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Pinkisk)
Feminism is a flawed ideology for idolising genocidal maniacs.
Worthy quote.
:womensoc:
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Joe312
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Pinkisk)
Feminist group does a heinous crime that involves the deaths of tens of thousands of men.
Feminist group celebrated by all feminist theorists/theologians as heroes, throughout time.
Ergo feminism is accepting of a movement that is involved in the murder tens of thousands of men.

Let us use your Hitler analogy. Hitler was an antisemite who murdered millions of Jews. Ideologies who celebrate this man as a hero are ideologies that are flawed.

Feminism is a flawed ideology for idolising genocidal maniacs.
Feminist group does a heinous crime that involves the deaths of tens of thousands of men, but not because of feminist ideology.
Feminist group celebrated by all feminist theorists as heroes throughout time... for securing women the vote, NOT for their participation in the white feather movement.

I'll say it again because you seem to really not be getting it:

Just because a feminist does something bad... that doesn't mean they did it BECAUSE of their feminism.

If you think they DID do it because of their feminism, then you need to EXPLAIN the link between feminist ideology and the white feather campaign.

Just pointing out that feminists were involved in it, DOES NOT EXPLAIN that link.

How long are you going to keep pretending that you can't understand this..?
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Cryoraptor
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#56
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#56
Pinkisk
The White Feather Campaign was a campaign started by the suffragettes in the first (and second) world wars aimed at shaming men to enlist in the army and fight to protect women, a notion popular amongst early feminist activists. The Suffragettes are accepted by all feminists as icons of this movement. They started a feminist campaign that pressured men to die in the tens of thousands to protect women and their interests.
And yet people seem to deify the suffragettes like they weren't self-entitled mentally insane terrorists. Suffragettes are exactly why extreme, toxic feminism has always existed and why modern feminism will always be fundamentally toxic.

I was about to quote your second post in this thread but there's not much point now that I'm mentioning you anyway:

I just want to say, I ****ing love that post. If I could I'd give you 10 reps just for that.
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Joe312
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#57
(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Pinkisk

And yet people seem to deify the suffragettes like they weren't self-entitled mentally insane terrorists. Suffragettes are exactly why extreme, toxic feminism has always existed and why modern feminism will always be fundamentally toxic.

I was about to quote your second post in this thread but there's not much point now that I'm mentioning you anyway:

I just want to say, I ****ing love that post. If I could I'd give you 10 reps just for that.
If you were denied the vote and made a second class citizen where you could be raped by your husband legally, how would you feel being called a self-entitled mentally insane terrorist for fighting against that?
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Cryoraptor
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#58
for securing women the vote, NOT for their participation in the white feather movement.
It most definitely wasn't what secured women the vote. If anything, it hurt the movement because it supported the common stereotype at the time that women were not as mentally capable as men considering they acted like deranged lunatics.

Women got the vote after the war because most politicians were in support of it anyway. 3rd wave feminists deifying the complete and utter lunatics tells you a lot about the nature of the movement.
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by Joe312)
Feminist group does a heinous crime that involves the deaths of tens of thousands of men, but not because of feminist ideology.
Feminist group celebrated by all feminist theorists as heroes throughout time... for securing women the vote, NOT for their participation in the white feather movement.

I'll say it again because you seem to really not be getting it:

Just because a feminist does something bad... that doesn't mean they did it BECAUSE of their feminism.

If you think they DID do it because of their feminism, then you need to EXPLAIN the link between feminist ideology and the white feather campaign.

Just pointing out that feminists were involved in it, DOES NOT EXPLAIN that link.

How long are you going to keep pretending that you can't understand this..?
Should we perhaps start support Hitler because his scientists made advances in many areas of science? I would not support a group of people responsible for the deaths of thousands in anything that that they do....I would not erect statutes of them and write books about them glorifying their virtues. Again, you are defending feminism in something that you do not know anything about. You stated that feminism celebrates them for their securing women he right to vote....no they don't feminism celebrate the suffragettes all round for EVERYTHING THAT THEY DID....additionally, the suffragettes did not secure women the vote. That is a misconception and a falsehood....but one that is outside the scope of this debate.
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Joe312
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
It most definitely wasn't what secured women the vote. If anything, it hurt the movement because it supported the common stereotype at the time that women were not as mentally capable as men considering they acted like deranged lunatics.

Women got the vote after the war because most politicians were in support of it anyway. 3rd wave feminists deifying the complete and utter lunatics tells you a lot about the nature of the movement.
Fair enough but that's not relevant to the point I was making which was the reason feminists today celebrate the suffragettes was because of their attempt to secure women the vote, not because of their participation in the white feather campaign, as Pinkisk wrongly claimed.
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