do you still get marks for using A Level methods and formula at GCSE Watch

liamlarner
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 5 days ago
#1
will edexcel examiners still give you marks for using methods that you learn at a level like logs for example if it still leads to the correct answer for example if a question says 7 to the power of n = 343 can i use logs to find it is that an acceptable method if i got the right answer out of it
0
reply
Muttley79
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#2
Report 5 days ago
#2
(Original post by liamlarner)
will edexcel examiners still give you marks for using methods that you learn at a level like logs for example if it still leads to the correct answer for example if a question says 7 to the power of n = 343 can i use logs to find it is that an acceptable method if i got the right answer out of it
This question would most probably be on a non-calculator paper. In general, as long as you use a correct method you'll get the marks.
0
reply
liamlarner
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 5 days ago
#3
(Original post by Muttley79)
This question would most probably be on a non-calculator paper. In general, as long as you use a correct method you'll get the marks.
i do edexcel igcse all are calc papers so could i teach myself how to use logs for the exam incase that question came up i was just wondering cus logs are not on my spec whether i can still get the marks for them
0
reply
Sir Cumference
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#4
Report 5 days ago
#4
(Original post by liamlarner)
i do edexcel igcse all are calc papers so could i teach myself how to use logs for the exam incase that question came up i was just wondering cus logs are not on my spec whether i can still get the marks for them
There's no need to learn logs. All questions on your paper can be done using IGCSE methods and most of the time the IGCSE method will be the quickest approach.
0
reply
liamlarner
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 5 days ago
#5
(Original post by Sir Cumference)
There's no need to learn logs. All questions on your paper can be done using IGCSE methods and most of the time the IGCSE method will be the quickest approach.
i already know logs i don't need to learn them im doing IGCSE alongside AS Level so my question is can i use them as i know them
0
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#6
Report 5 days ago
#6
Exams are designed to test your ability to solve problems using known and correct mathematical methods. I'd be amazed if you were marked down due to your having knowledge beyond the requirements of the specifications. Another example could be finding the stationary point of a quadratic. In the GCSE this would usually require completing the square, but as you know, differentiation is more likely to produce a solution more efficiently (from memory, the iGCSE includes this method).

With reference to the use of logs, a compound interest/loss question asking how long before (eg) a car has lost half its value would usually require a trial and improvement method whereas using logs would give the result instantly.

There is some debate around whether using a classwizz calculator to solve (eg) simultaneous or quadratic equations etc instantly should be afforded full marks . IMHO, unless the question specifically requires all working out to be shown, full marks should be awarded for providing the required solutions. After all, part of the exam being a calculator paper involves testing whether you know how to use your calculator to good effect. It isn't your fault if the examiners don't make it abundantly clear of what they expect to see for you to attain full marks. Since the classwizz calculator is a permitted piece of equipment, then it seems entirely reasonable for you to be allowed to show that you know how to use it! (Indeed, as you will soon find out as you progess through your A level, only a lunatic would waste their time using the quadratic formula to solve such relatively mundane equations when the goal is to use the results for other more cerebral purposes)

After all, if you went to see a professional pianist give a recital, it would be unreasonable for you to ask for your money back if they didn't precede their performance with a complete rendition of all of the relevant scales that they had to practise over the years, coupled with a lecture on the theories of music utilised in order to play the piece perfectly.
Last edited by dextrous63; 5 days ago
0
reply
Muttley79
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#7
Report 5 days ago
#7
(Original post by dextrous63)
Exams are designed to test your ability to solve problems using known and correct mathematical methods. I'd be amazed if you were marked down due to your having knowledge beyond the requirements of the specifications. Another example could be finding the stationary point of a quadratic. In the GCSE this would usually require completing the square, but as you know, differentiation is more likely to produce a solution more efficiently (from memory, the iGCSE includes this method).

With reference to the use of logs, a compound interest/loss question asking how long before (eg) a car has lost half its value would usually require a trial and improvement method whereas using logs would give the result instantly.

There is some debate around whether using a classwizz calculator to solve (eg) simultaneous or quadratic equations etc instantly should be afforded full marks . IMHO, unless the question specifically requires all working out to be shown, full marks should be awarded for providing the required solutions. After all, part of the exam being a calculator paper involves testing whether you know how to use your calculator to good effect. It isn't your fault if the examiners don't make it abundantly clear of what they expect to see for you to attain full marks. Since the classwizz calculator is a permitted piece of equipment, then it seems entirely reasonable for you to be allowed to show that you know how to use it! (Indeed, as you will soon find out as you progess through your A level, only a lunatic would waste their time using the quadratic formula to solve such relatively mundane equations when the goal is to use the results for other more cerebral purposes)

After all, if you went to see a professional pianist give a recital, it would be unreasonable for you to ask for your money back if they didn't precede their performance with a complete rendition of all of the relevant scales that they had to practise over the years, coupled with a lecture on the theories of music utilised in order to play the piece perfectly.
The front of the question paper says:
*Without sufficient working, correct answers may be awarded no marks

So you would need to show working for question involving equations.
0
reply
Reality Check
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#8
Report 5 days ago
#8
(Original post by Muttley79)
The front of the question paper says:
*Without sufficient working, correct answers may be awarded no marks

So you would need to show working for question involving equations.
Exactly.
1
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#9
Report 5 days ago
#9
(Original post by Muttley79)
The front of the question paper says:
*Without sufficient working, correct answers may be awarded no marks

So you would need to show working for question involving equations.
"may" is vague as is "sufficient". It is entirely possible for someone to either spot the solution or, heaven forbid, to work it out mentally. It would be unfair if they were to penalised simply because they didn't write things down solely to appease the examiner.
0
reply
Muttley79
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#10
Report 5 days ago
#10
(Original post by dextrous63)
"may" is vague as is "sufficient". It is entirely possible for someone to either spot the solution or, heaven forbid, to work it out mentally. It would be unfair if they were to penalised simply because they didn't write things down solely to appease the examiner.
You'd be foolish to ignore the rubric .... do note that Reality check is an examiner
1
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#11
Report 5 days ago
#11
(Original post by Muttley79)
You'd be foolish to ignore the rubric .... do note that Reality check is an examiner
Give unto Caesar?
Unless the question clearly stipulates that working must be shown, students should not be penalised.
0
reply
Muttley79
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#12
Report 5 days ago
#12
(Original post by dextrous63)
Give unto Caesar?
Unless the question clearly stipulates that working must be shown, students should not be penalised.
The rubric [the instructions on the front of the paper] applies to every question!
0
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#13
Report 5 days ago
#13
(Original post by Muttley79)
The rubric [the instructions on the front of the paper] applies to every question!
It remains vague. What level of detail is required to be deemed "sufficient"? "may"also implies "may not"
What does a calculator paper (partially) test, other than whether you know how to use your calculator?
0
reply
vicvic38
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#14
Report 5 days ago
#14
(Original post by dextrous63)
There is some debate around whether using a classwizz calculator to solve (eg) simultaneous or quadratic equations etc instantly should be afforded full marks . IMHO, unless the question specifically requires all working out to be shown, full marks should be awarded for providing the required solutions. After all, part of the exam being a calculator paper involves testing whether you know how to use your calculator to good effect. It isn't your fault if the examiners don't make it abundantly clear of what they expect to see for you to attain full marks. Since the classwizz calculator is a permitted piece of equipment, then it seems entirely reasonable for you to be allowed to show that you know how to use it! (Indeed, as you will soon find out as you progess through your A level, only a lunatic would waste their time using the quadratic formula to solve such relatively mundane equations when the goal is to use the results for other more cerebral purposes)
No.

You're wrong.

That completely goes against the point of maths. Maths is all about structuring logical arguments, and you can't just state something, you have to convince me it is true. I'm in the second year of my degree, and I still solve quadratics by hand because: I need them symbolically, and I don't get a calculator for exams. It's not about solving the quadratic, it's about the process of getting there, and showing you can reproduce a logical line of argument.

You don't start formulating your own arguments until you start your degree, but the skills learnt at GCSE are still helpful in understanding lines of logic.
2
reply
Muttley79
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#15
Report 5 days ago
#15
(Original post by dextrous63)
It remains vague. What level of detail is required to be deemed "sufficient"? "may"also implies "may not"
What does a calculator paper (partially) test, other than whether you know how to use your calculator?
You misunderstand what this paper is for - it's for topics that NEED a calculator like Trig where the calculations can't be done in your head or take far too long.

I teach Maths ... you need to show how you've solved any equation not just the answer.
0
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#16
Report 5 days ago
#16
(Original post by Muttley79)
You misunderstand what this paper is for - it's for topics that NEED a calculator like Trig where the calculations can't be done in your head or take far too long.

I teach Maths ... you need to show how you've solved any equation not just the answer.
In which case exam boards should make it abundantly clear that only the most primitive of calculators are allowed, and manufacturers should build extremely limited calculators with a tiny number of functions.

I taught maths in schools for 25 years and now do private tuition. I spend some of my time helping students learn how to use their calculator efficiently.

Obviously, I play by the rules, and advise students to use the calculator to check their answers to equations etc rather than just write the solution.

But my argument still stands.
0
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#17
Report 5 days ago
#17
(Original post by vicvic38)
No.

You're wrong.

That completely goes against the point of maths. Maths is all about structuring logical arguments, and you can't just state something, you have to convince me it is true. I'm in the second year of my degree, and I still solve quadratics by hand because: I need them symbolically, and I don't get a calculator for exams. It's not about solving the quadratic, it's about the process of getting there, and showing you can reproduce a logical line of argument.

You don't start formulating your own arguments until you start your degree, but the skills learnt at GCSE are still helpful in understanding lines of logic.
Thank you for explaining this to me. I got my maths degree in 1986.
1
reply
vicvic38
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#18
Report 5 days ago
#18
(Original post by dextrous63)
Thank you for explaining this to me. I got my maths degree in 1986.
You sound cynical.

What are you doing on a student forum anyway, boomer?
0
reply
dextrous63
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#19
Report 5 days ago
#19
(Original post by vicvic38)
You sound cynical.

What are you doing on a student forum anyway, boomer?
Er, helping students with their questions! That's what some of us do on here, in case you hadn't noticed LOL.
0
reply
David Getling
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#20
Report 5 days ago
#20
(Original post by liamlarner)
will edexcel examiners still give you marks for using methods that you learn at a level like logs for example if it still leads to the correct answer for example if a question says 7 to the power of n = 343 can i use logs to find it is that an acceptable method if i got the right answer out of it
Unless you are told to use a specific method you can use any valid method.

I smile when I contemplate what most A-level markers would do if they came across a really bright student who had used Lagrangian or Hamiltonian mechanics to solve a problem.
3
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

University open days

  • University of Warwick
    Warwick Business School Postgraduate
    Thu, 20 Feb '20
  • St George's, University of London
    Postgrad open day Postgraduate
    Thu, 20 Feb '20
  • University of Hertfordshire
    All Subjects Undergraduate
    Sat, 22 Feb '20

People at uni: do initiations (like heavy drinking) put you off joining sports societies?

Yes (250)
66.67%
No (125)
33.33%

Watched Threads

View All