Trans patients are self medicating due to NHS wait.

1. then dont talk about kids then, unless you believe its moral to put children on HRT
2. what you said is so wrong and misses the point so much its not worth telling you how bad of an argument that is. Re read what i wrote and really ask yourself "does what i replied with make sense"
3.
4.yes ofc there isn't but there is no reason not to, yeah there is you have a record of your birth certificate, probably records of where you went to school and so on so there will be a paper trail. But overall this argument is bad, so i have numbers to prove my point and you have nothing but for some reason you are right and im wrong; makes a lot of sense kid. Yeah ofc thousands of you exist but you arent just dispersed through the country you concentrate in certain places and there are a tiny tiny amount of you. On top of that most of you are clockable because to the human eye the average man and women are like white and black, impossible to mistake for each other, therefore since medical tech isnt magic most of you will not pass. Yes you will get the odd trans girl that has a small frame, dainty features and small hands as a guy, but that by statistical probability is an outlier. Most will be average guys about 5'9-10+ reasonably masculine face and build with decently big hands and feet, this guy if he transitions will be clockable thats just the reality.

If you make a claim then the onus falls on your to provide the evidence for the claim.

That doesn't support your claim, she was quite clearly being grossly offensive not simply misgendering. The defendant made several accounts even after a civil settlement with the sole intent to offend and abuse.

Got anything relevant?

Im not saying you should provide evidence for my claim im saying you should think before you post.

No she is getting specifically fined 1 grand for intentionally miss gendering, you dont get fined that much for just insulting somone. Also what do you think the terms of gross offence are its not that she called her ugly, its that she missgendered her which caused gross offence.

Litterally in the article: "Giving evidence, Ms Hayden, 48, called Scottow a Twitter troll who had referred to her as ‘he’ or ‘him’."
"‘It’s calculated to violate my dignity as a woman.’"
"There were a number of tweets which were not only targeting me, they were targeting other people who were either transgender or who were perceived to be supportive of transgender people.’
"The judge said she knew what she was doing by persistently using male pronouns, causing her target ‘needless anxiety’."

1) There's also no data suggesting that HRT is a risk, considering the fact that cis people also get the treatment should they have faulty thyroids, issues with their ovaries, and other problems producing their own hormones. Hormone replacement therapy isn't just a trans person thing, either ban it for everyone because of the risks or step back.
2) Getting hormones in the UK is near impossible, but if you can show a me a study which was not conducted by someone like the Sun on how easy hormones are to get legally whilst being fully monitored by a GP please do tell me, because I'd love to make use of that service myself and despite being heavily involved with the online trans uk scene I have yet to hear about this mythical way of getting hormones ASAP.
3) This article is about adults, not children. I brought up the annoyance with the scaremongering 'children are being given dangerous drugs like mad! !!!' because hormones, as previously mentioned, are hard to get.
4) I know all the risks of going through HRT, but as an autonomous adult who knows the risks and the benefits I have decided I want to anyway. Do you think I should not have bodily autonomy?
5) Plastic surgery found dead: murdered by genes.
6) I'm going to tell you something that will terrify you. There are thousands of trans people you have walked past and never clocked. There are people you will never know are trans, and they are serving your coffee, fixing your boiler, and cutting your hair. We pass much, much better than you think.

1) Yes there is it has been known for years that taking oestrogen increases you likelihood of developing certain cancers
2) As it should be for 2 reasons. 1 to prevent misuse from those who dont need them and 2 to correctly control dosage from a qualified doctor
3) But you brought them up so it's understandable for that person to respond to it
4) You're right
5) Wut
6) Nice more power to them

1. litterally just wrong https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-over-diagnosing-children-having-transgender-treatment-former-staff-warn-11875624, also this shouldnt be happening in the first place we dont know what these drugs to do kids long term at all
2.ffs its like trying to teach a pigeon chess. Not may cause problems will almost certainly cause a heart attack. I didnt make a non equivlent point, it was completely equivelent, person who has a nut allergy(person who has that random disease you talked about) takes epipen(hormone blockers) they will be fine. Person who doesn't have nut allergy(doesnt have disease) will have a heart attack(will have whole host of medical issues/we have no idea what will happen long term).

Again my point was that you cannot take results of drugs used on the sick to claim that they are safe to use on the healthy. Your babbling about allergies makes no sense what so ever, how does somone being alergic to a drug mean that successful treatment for people with health condidtions is safe for healthy people. by your logic anabolic steroids should be completly fine because they have medical applications .

3. this was left empty because its mindless babbling about something no one can understand, explain your point and how it is relevant and ill respond
4. Sorry i dont know the ins and outs of changing your identity, doesnt change my overall point tho does it.
- There arent(generally speaking) any trans women who are 6'3 who pass this is a lie you have told yourself, people are just polite/dont want to get hated on by the people around them
- the average height for women in the uk is 5'3.5 so no i dont think all women are under 5'5 but almost all of them are around that height or less. also I said the male height was 5'9-10 not 5'5 so your argument here is just wrong by default as your trying to gaslight my original point
- didn't say all cismen had huge hands and feet i said big, and by that i meant significantly and very noticeably bigger than women, which is true unarguably
-the guys I know are averagely sized, a lot of them are around ranges 5'9 - 6'3, which is a normal range
-the claim that the tallest guy you know is 5'5 but you know 3 women over 6'0 is either a lie or proves that your personal experience is such a far outlier from whats normal your own anecdotes are worthless, thats like saying you have never met someone with blonde hair.
-That claim single handelly proves that your argument, that ive men trans women and didnt know it, is completely wrong because its based on the premise that your personal exp is normal which it isnt at all.

1) So surely we should stop all women who have had ovarian cancer from having HRT then. Every medication has risks, but HRT is not somehow more risky than the others. It's just as risky as your actual hormones. Trans men aren't more likely to develop heart disease because testosterone evil, we're more likely to develop heart disease because testosterone in all men increases the risk of heart disease.
2) But The Problem With That As Described In The Article I Linked Is People Are Self Medicating Due To Long Wait Lists.
3) Yeah, I brought up an exaggeration made by uneducated people on the topic of HRT. The whole topic is still HRT. If I used the turn of phrase 'i'm sweating like a whore in church' during a hot day, and you went 'well actually whores do sweat in church' you'd be speaking off topic.

1) That's just wrong weak antibiotics carry almost no risk depending on the type in contrast to HRT that could literally cause a life threatening illness more so than just 'regular hormones'
2) I understand what you're saying but I'm still sceptical that hormones should be given more easily because of the risks that it would carry.
3) yeah pretty much

Since i view gender dysphoria as a serious mental illness i find it alarming that demand is so high for these services that waiting lists can exceed two years and we need to address this culture of encouragement and take further measures to develop a proper mental health strategy to help people deal with the desire to become somebody else.

That aside i will say that i found OP's tone in the post to be slightly entitled. As a taxpayer i don't think that i should be burdened to pay for these procedures and OP should consider going private if they are really intent.

Since i view gender dysphoria as a serious mental illness i find it alarming that demand is so high for these services that waiting lists can exceed two years and we need to address this culture of encouragement and take further measures to develop a proper mental health strategy to help people deal with the desire to become somebody else.

That aside i will say that i found OP's tone in the post to be slightly entitled. As a taxpayer i don't think that i should be burdened to pay for these procedures and OP should consider going private if they are really intent.

Entitled to healthcare?

What healthcare do you view as acceptable?

1) Sorry, do you think hormone replacement therapy only happens to trans people? It doesn't. Women who need hormone replacement therapy aren't getting antibiotics, they're getting the exact same pills a trans woman does.
2) But people are self medicating, self harming, and committing suicide over this. People aren't ever going to be able to walk into a gp and demand HRT, it would never work like that and no one wants that.
The NHS's goal to seeing a patient is 18 weeks. I'm waiting for about 58 more, despite already being on the waiting list since last year. We don't want hormones in halloween candy, we just want the wait we're supposed to get.

1) I know but it doesnt mean HRT is without major risks
2) Yeah I agree I guess I didnt realise how bad the problem was,

Entitled to healthcare in terms of preventing disease yes, entitled to pander in a manner which you choose, no. As i have said, gender dysphoria is a mental illness and thus access to mental health services should be a given but the suicide rate of transgender people would suggest that assertions of their 'right to change gender at the taxpayers expense' should be looked upon skeptically. The return on investment in health outcomes is low and the NHS already provides far too many non-essential services.

But if HRT has major risks then people who want it restricted to trans people must also argue for restriction to cis people too. That's the crux of this issue: cis people who need HRT normally get it within the 18 weeks, trans people who need HRT normally get it after a 2-3 year wait time (since 2 years is to the first appointment and treatment is normally only agreed upon in the second, which can take 6 months to a year to take place) after having psychological evaluations and constant scrutiny from the media and their peers.
My argument is we either paint it all with the same brush, or we accept that there sre discrepancies which are based in nothing other than largely transphobia.

Entitled to healthcare in terms of preventing disease yes, entitled to pander in a manner which you choose, no. As i have said, gender dysphoria is a mental illness and thus access to mental health services should be a given but the suicide rate of transgender people would suggest that assertions of their 'right to change gender at the taxpayers expense' should be looked upon skeptically. The return on investment in health outcomes is low and the NHS already provides far too many non-essential services.

tbh I thought it was a blanket problem and it affected all those who were on HRT. But I can understand the 2 year wait time, it's a serious, permanent life changing decision that needs careful thought.

And I have been thinking carefully for about 6 years now.
The way appointments work at a GIC is first someone is assessed to see what intervention would be best, because HRT isn't always chosen. Some people don't want it, some people aren't in the right mental space for it, some people don't have the right physical help for it.
A shorter waiting list doesn't mean no checks and balances. We are already assessed ruthlessly to make sure we're sure about this, the main barrier is the long wait time which often drives trans people to do what this very discussion is about:illegal and dangerous self medication.

1) You're still banging on about hormone blockers. We are talking about HRT treatments in adults. Either keep up, or just admit you're here to scaremongering. Also once again the assertion that blockers haven't gone through clinical trials is disgusting. No one knows what will happen if I take my ADHD medication for an extended period of time because it hasn't been studied, that doesn't mean that I was given a rouge medication, does it?
2) How do you know how many trans people there are? We don't even know how many migrants are in the UK, and you think one piece of statistical data based on self admission is trustworthy? You know tonnes of trans people, they just aren't out to you. Trust me, as someone who is in the community, I think I'm aware of how many trans people there are. Just because you're scared you don't know who is and isn't trans doesn't mean you get to deny reality.
Also imagine thinking people like Nikkietutorials doesn't pass. Lovely woman over 6 foot there, and if you really think she's clockable you clearly have a bigger ego than you know what to do with.