Points based immigration system to be brought in by the end of 2020.

https://news.sky.com/story/points-based-immigration-system-to-be-brought-in-by-end-of-2020-11913200

This will be brought in to coincide with the end of the transition period that started on February 1st and could end up denying low skilled workers visas?

What do you think the U.Ks immigration system should be?
Do you agree with a points based system?.

Reply 1

nulli tertius

21

Original post by Andrew97

https://news.sky.com/story/points-based-immigration-system-to-be-brought-in-by-end-of-2020-11913200

This will be brought in to coincide with the end of the transition period that started on February 1st and could end up denying low skilled workers visas?

What do you think the U.Ks immigration system should be?
Do you agree with a points based system?.

There are two different issues here.

1 A points-based system

2 An earnings floor set above the usual wage levels in a variety of industries:- personal care, agriculture, hospitality.

A points based system reduces control over immigration. The immigrant, not the Government, decides how to acquire the necessary points. All the Government does is to set the points threshold.

A points based system is like a university admitting on UCAS points. A*A*E gets a lot of points.

Immigrants will game this system far more than they do at present because the system is as weak as the easiest points to achieve. You don’t have to exploit the whole system, only its weakest aspect.

It will be quietly shelved in the same way May shelved the Labour points based scheme, by making it impossible to use a surfeit of points in one area to plug a gap in another. If you get rid of that sort of transferability, the points add nothing to the process. They become window dressing. You can write the same rule without using the concept of points at all.

I simply can’t see the earnings floor lasting. A single disastrous harvest will do it. The Government is putting together a scheme for seasonal agricultural workers but that makes the huge assumption that the potential immigrants want to be seasonal workers. I suspect the reality is that the sort of people who have been newcomers to British fields and packhorses over the last few years will simply choose to work in EU fields and packhouses.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 2

WillOstler

8

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(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 3

WillOstler

8

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(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 4

Rakas21

21

From what I’ve seen of it seems alright bar the exemptions. It really needs to be matched with more apprenticeship funding and changes to the welfare system to force more people into those areas.

Reply 5

Apocrypha

15

There will need to be sufficient investment in RND to develop more efficient methods of automation to counter the reduction in cheap labour from Europe i.e more automatic car washers, more self service hubs for things like coffee and snacks etc etc.

This is certainly a policy that an average leave voter would feel satisfied by, but I still think most leave voters equate EU Migration to Non-EU migration.

Reply 6

username4986690

19

Without seeing the final document it is hard to say one way or another but it does feel like a step in the right direction. I do not however trust the Tories to effectively manage the system and I expect it to become another Home Office **** show.

A key factor that the Tories have been promising and not delivery for years now is the Social Care green paper which is required to understand how we manage the ever growing social care sector that relies heavily on a migrant workforce. As it stand this workforce looks like they are to be excluded from immigrating.

Reply 7

username4521132

19

So give the low skilled work to the British and the high skilled well paid jobs to the immigrants

Reply 8

Burton Bridge

15

Good.

In answer to the OPs questions.

1) I think we should invest in our own people and where ever possible try to fill skill internally as a country. Lowest Cost is not always the best moral option. Therefore the point system should be on the basis of industrial needs and be under consistent review by a quango.

2) yes I believe we should be able to control our immigration system.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 9

username4969948

16

I have no problem with more skilled foreigners in the country.

However the idea that we should get loads of British workers to fill low skilled jobs with little chance of genuine advancement or means to significantly improve their lives is something I have a problem with.

That said, this is what Brexiters wanted and we should respect their views regardless of the misery it causes to their fellow Brits.

Reply 10

monkeybest

9

Flawed idea as why would the millions of Brits entrenched in welfare decide to do the jobs done by immigrants when they are better off simply claiming other peoples cash instead?

The irony is in the past they would bleat on about immigrants taking their jobs despite the fact they have no intention of ever working in their life!

Amusing to see the specimen on the news today complaining about poverty while at the same time texting/snapchatting there mate on a brand new iPhone couldnt make it up! They dont even know the meaning of poverty let alone have the gaul to use such a word while those in work are worse off than her.

Reply 11

Luisillo

8

Hi, Im a EU student and I want to apply for 21-22 and Im a bit confused because of this policy.
Will I have troubles to apply for the year??? Will be able to apply for lower fees like nowadays?

Reply 12

Burton Bridge

15

Original post by Kitten in boots

I have no problem with more skilled foreigners in the country.

However the idea that we should get loads of British workers to fill low skilled jobs with little chance of genuine advancement or means to significantly improve their lives is something I have a problem with.

That said, this is what Brexiters wanted and we should respect their views regardless of the misery it causes to their fellow Brits.

I wont get a reply because you never reply however how will helping currently unemployed people into work cause misery to their fellow Brits?

You can simply never prosper when you left behind, surely providing work, and I quote you "loads of British workers" is a fantastic opportunity? Do you want to keep these people out of work?

Reply 13

Burton Bridge

15

Original post by monkeybest

Flawed idea as why would the millions of Brits entrenched in welfare decide to do the jobs done by immigrants when they are better off simply claiming other peoples cash instead?

The irony is in the past they would bleat on about immigrants taking their jobs despite the fact they have no intention of ever working in their life!

Amusing to see the specimen on the news today complaining about poverty while at the same time texting/snapchatting there mate on a brand new iPhone couldnt make it up! They dont even know the meaning of poverty let alone have the gaul to use such a word while those in work are worse off than her.

That's just simply not true!

The old "in my day we was lucky to get a tv, and I worked down the mine for 12 hours a day, I tell ya" It's short sighted nonsense argument, back in 1980 a tv cost best part of months wage, nowadays one costs a fraction of a days wage!

The idea that majority of people want to stay on welfare is nonsense. Can I ask you if you want to go on welfare?

Reply 14

nulli tertius

21

Original post by Burton Bridge

Good.

In answer to the OPs questions.

1) I think we should invest in our own people and where ever possible try to fill skill internally as a country. Lowest Cost is not always the best moral option. Therefore the point system should be on the basis of industrial needs and be under consistent review by a quango.

One of the problems with a points based system is that you have no quotas.

There may be a shortage of ballet dancers and brain surgeons so you give lots of points for being a ballet dancer and lots of points for being a brain surgeon.

We may need 500 brain surgeons and 50 ballet dancers, but we might find that 550 ballet dancers and no brain surgeons are admitted with the requisite points. Once we are awash withh unemployed ballet dancers we will remove the points award for being a ballet dancer and we will get no more ballet dancers. But the harm has been done.

Reply 15

fallen_acorns

20

Great.

This is one issue that many (but not all) on the left have been far to weak on for too long. Low-skilled migration has been awful for the working class. Its bottomed out industries, and let employers (the rich) get away with exploiting a workforce that has no ability or will to fight back.

A lot of people, without giving it much thought, say "Oh.. but british people won't do such poorly paying jobs with no future!". 1. Who do you think did them before mass migration, only 20 years ago? And 2. Why do you think that these industries have collapsed to such a degree that the only wages and benefits they can supply are so far bellow normal living costs?

The reality is, that if you let the hospitality and farming industries only hire British workers.. what would happen is that they would quickly start offering packages that were attractive to British workers. They would be forced to actually provide something of a quality that was desirable by the workforce they had access too, or they would go out of business. All of a sudden you would see wages in these sectors go up, and the businesses that can't manage to run at a level that can pay staff humane wages would die (good).

The crazy thing is, that you then get left-leaning people arguing in favor of effectively trickle-down-economics.. that we should help these businesses undercut wages for the poor, because increasing their proffitability, and allowing them to survive in this way, bennifits all of us by the goods/services they provide.

*******s.

Mass low-skilled migration is a rich-mans dream. They get a flexible, always-young, fit workforce, who don't unionise.. don't require family provision or support, are happy to live in awful conditions and take far less money then the locals they used to pay.

Any true left-leaning person should be up in arms about it.

(So why are the torries? The party of the rich trying to stop it... The real truth is they aren't. This is all window-dressing and talk. They need to look like they are taking action, and will push through policy that reduces numbers in a few palces/areas.. to try and appeal to their new working-class voter base, but actually it won't make that much of a difference. In fact they may even get a great deal out of it.. if they can remove low-skilled seasonal workers from the normal work-visa timeline, and push more of them onto new far more restricted temporary visas.. that would be great!)

Reply 16

fallen_acorns

20

Also.. news stories about points-based systems need to make one thing clear:

Having a points-system doesn't automatically mean immigration will come down, or that it will be more strict than it is now.

To many articles and reports just presume that a new system will be.. but it may not. Many countries currently have points systems that are actually easier and less strict than our current non-points system. We could move to a points system like theirs, and immigration would likely go up (from outside the EU).

Currently each Visa we have, has a list of requirements.. giving all those point scores, doesn't make it easier or harder, as long as the requirements are the same. The requirements behind the points are what matters.. the points-system really only functions to make it easier for people to understand.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 17

BlueSoybean

18

good luck to the foreigners wanting immigrate the UK👍 it seems difficult.

Reply 18

Rakas21

21

Hard to have sympathy with some people. Farmer comes on the news with his son story (fair) and then reveals that 85% of folk he hired are not British and that he might have to raise wages.

At 85% it's no wonder people believe the system is failing them. There are 294,000 long term unemployed, get down to the job center and tell them to find him 20 workers.