EU students in the UK post Brexit

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Cookiezi
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So it happened, you left. The government has yet to finalize its immigration policies. What do you think will happen to EU students that are currently studying in the UK?

As one of such students, I'm disappointed by the outcome. I'm finishing my integrated masters in physics on June 2021, and hoped to continue onto a PhD afterwards, also in the UK, but I won't be able to do so if the fees were to increase, or if I stop being eligible for the EPSRC doctoral grants. I would kind of feel cheated if this were to happen, given the tremendous loans I've taken that I now have to pay back. On the other hand, I would never be able to pay them back in full if I were to return to my home country.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Cookiezi)
So it happened, you left. The government has yet to finalize its immigration policies. What do you think will happen to EU students that are currently studying in the UK?

As one of such students, I'm disappointed by the outcome. I'm finishing my integrated masters in physics on June 2021, and hoped to continue onto a PhD afterwards, also in the UK, but I won't be able to do so if the fees were to increase, or if I stop being eligible for the EPSRC doctoral grants. I would kind of feel cheated if this were to happen, given the tremendous loans I've taken that I now have to pay back. On the other hand, I would never be able to pay them back in full if I were to return to my home country.
Hadnt the referendum already taken place before you started your degree?
EU students currently here will be allowed to finish their courses.
Students who start their courses next year will be international students as the transition period will have ended.
Not seeing how you can possibly feel cheated? Are your loans any greater than any UK student? They certainly wouldnt be as high as an international student. How have you been cheated? Nobody forced you to come to the UK. In any event most student loans are never paid back in full and they are eventually written off.

What happens to you after 2021 depends just as much on the EU and your government. The prospects of a trade deal at the moment are not looking healthy as the EU has already told the UK it has changed its mind and they can no longer have the deal it has given Canada but mist have a worse one. The UK is bored of being threatened and in such a case of no deal, then the UK will look after its own citizens. Negotiations may decide what happens to people in your situation, you will at least know by the end of the year. I would be hopeful though the UK is already letting current students finish or even start this year despite leaving.

If there is no deal then you may need to consider getting finance and doing your PHD in your own country or any one of the other member states.
Visas under the new system look straightforward to get for research students, but its unclear whether EU students should be funded by the UK any more. I would just focus on your studies and keep an eye out.
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Cookiezi
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Hadnt the referendum already taken place before you started your degree?
EU students currently here will be allowed to finish their courses.
Students who start their courses next year will be international students as the transition period will have ended.
Not seeing how you can possibly feel cheated? Are your loans any greater than any UK student? They certainly wouldnt be as high as an international student. How have you been cheated? Nobody forced you to come to the UK. In any event most student loans are never paid back in full and they are eventually written off.

What happens to you after 2021 depends just as much on the EU and your government. The prospects of a trade deal at the moment are not looking healthy as the EU has already told the UK it has changed its mind and they can no longer have the deal it has given Canada but mist have a worse one. The UK is bored of being threatened and in such a case of no deal, then the UK will look after its own citizens. Negotiations may decide what happens to people in your situation, you will at least know by the end of the year. I would be hopeful though the UK is already letting current students finish or even start this year despite leaving.

If there is no deal then you may need to consider getting finance and doing your PHD in your own country or any one of the other member states.
Visas under the new system look straightforward to get for research students, but its unclear whether EU students should be funded by the UK any more. I would just focus on your studies and keep an eye out.
Thanks for the reply. I am looking to do a PhD in mainland Europe or the USA. It would be nice to stay here but alas.

Obviously they wouldn't increase fees for current students, that's uncontroversial. If they were to do that, me and many others would simply leave and continue their degrees elsewhere, and the university wouldn't get a penny more from me. What I'm referring to are opportunities after the transition period for people such as me. I might have gotten a "world-class" education, but of what use it if I'm forced to leave the country whilst also becoming indebted for the rest of my life? Remember, to apply for the settlement scheme I must have been resident for 5 years (2.5 years in my case).

The loan system makes sense in England, but it gets inane when one considers those that decide to move to lower-income countries. In my case, at the threshold salary, I would be required to pay almost 1/5th of my salary, which is absurdly high. It' no surprise why so many people default once they leave the UK. And even if I were to pay that amount, I would be doing so for around 22 years (since the rate is fixed), and that doesn't include interest. I guess the British taxpayer will have to chip in for me.

Besides, the referendum took place after I confirmed my place at the university, and it wasn't even binding.

Sorry for the rant, I'm probably exaggerating. Hopefully they'll give out some concessions soon.
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History98
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You're a bit unlucky to be finishing your course a couple months after the transition period is due to end. Personally, I do not think pre-settled status will be enough to be eligible for UK fees or funding because pre-settled status is a form of time limited leave to remain in the UK. The only way I can see for you to qualify for UK funding is if the transition period is extended and I think there is still a tangible possibility this will happen (despite what Boris says). Hopefully, by July/August you would know if the transition will get extended.

If the transition period is not extended then the only way I can see for getting funding is to complete your 5 years and get settled status. Once settled, you will be able to access all benefits that UK citizens get, including funding for doctorates. The downfall to this is obviously that there would have to be a gap between your MPhys and your PhD, which is not ideal. If I was you I would probably just prepare applications and just apply everywhere (UK, EU and USA) later on this year and then evaluate my options after decisions come through.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Cookiezi)
Thanks for the reply. I am looking to do a PhD in mainland Europe or the USA. It would be nice to stay here but alas.

Obviously they wouldn't increase fees for current students, that's uncontroversial. If they were to do that, me and many others would simply leave and continue their degrees elsewhere, and the university wouldn't get a penny more from me. What I'm referring to are opportunities after the transition period for people such as me. I might have gotten a "world-class" education, but of what use it if I'm forced to leave the country whilst also becoming indebted for the rest of my life? Remember, to apply for the settlement scheme I must have been resident for 5 years (2.5 years in my case).

The loan system makes sense in England, but it gets inane when one considers those that decide to move to lower-income countries. In my case, at the threshold salary, I would be required to pay almost 1/5th of my salary, which is absurdly high. It' no surprise why so many people default once they leave the UK. And even if I were to pay that amount, I would be doing so for around 22 years (since the rate is fixed), and that doesn't include interest. I guess the British taxpayer will have to chip in for me.

Besides, the referendum took place after I confirmed my place at the university, and it wasn't even binding.

Sorry for the rant, I'm probably exaggerating. Hopefully they'll give out some concessions soon.
1. You are missing the point , which is the UK is doing things properly and fairly to the extent it permits students to finish their course at home fees, even though we have left the EU. It made that commitment before even any agreement had been made and despite the constant boring threats made by the EU and several of its members.

2. You should check the residence scheme, but as far as I was aware, time spent specifically in education does not count towards residence.

3. You come here for an education not employment. EU citizens slightly different, but the UK chose to leave. Its up to the EU to negotiate. I wouldnt be worried as the visa system looks quite generous.

4. You clearly dont understand about how the loan system works. Your complaints are invalid, because thats not how the loan system works and you are obviously misinformed in your complaining.

5. Again if so many people default when they leave then its all the more reason not to accept EU students and take international ones who pay up front.

To recap you are misinformed, but tbh your attitude is not impressive at all.
The UK should look after its own students and continue to market itself to international students who can decide if its worth paying for or not. If unis cant attract students, they can close , students go elsewhere or they can drop prices. Its up to the EU to negotiate how it wants its citizens to be treated if they want preferential treatment over international students.

As said below apply within the EU and then to other countries to see what you can get.

Ps the chance of changing the referendum was a few %, so it was all done and dusted the day after.
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Cookiezi
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(Original post by 999tigger)
1. You are missing the point , which is the UK is doing things properly and fairly to the extent it permits students to finish their course at home fees, even though we have left the EU. It made that commitment before even any agreement had been made and despite the constant boring threats made by the EU and several of its members.

2. You should check the residence scheme, but as far as I was aware, time spent specifically in education does not count towards residence.

3. You come here for an education not employment. EU citizens slightly different, but the UK chose to leave. Its up to the EU to negotiate. I wouldnt be worried as the visa system looks quite generous.

4. You clearly dont understand about how the loan system works. Your complaints are invalid, because thats not how the loan system works and you are obviously misinformed in your complaining.

5. Again if so many people default when they leave then its all the more reason not to accept EU students and take international ones who pay up front.

To recap you are misinformed, but tbh your attitude is not impressive at all.
The UK should look after its own students and continue to market itself to international students who can decide if its worth paying for or not. If unis cant attract students, they can close , students go elsewhere or they can drop prices. Its up to the EU to negotiate how it wants its citizens to be treated if they want preferential treatment over international students.

As said below apply within the EU and then to other countries to see what you can get.

Ps the chance of changing the referendum was a few %, so it was all done and dusted the day after.
1. Well, it would be outrageous if they did otherwise. But as I said, most EU students are not as wealthy as international students, so if they increased the fees we would simply leave and the universities would receive a net less in tuition fees from us than had they left the rates intact, so it didn't make sense to increase the fees for current students at all. Of course, this doesn't matter for incoming students, as there would simply be more seats allocated to international students.

2. I was looking into that. It's a bit convoluted but I might be eligible to apply. There is a "pre-settled" status for people like me, which apparently is no different to the "settled" status.

3. I would argue that most EU students came here for employment also. And the visa system gives points for people with PhDs, not for people applying for PhDs.

4. Could you please enlighten me then what it is I don't understand about the loan system?

5. Last time I checked, British students were as likely to default if moving abroad as EU students, if not more.

I believe you are missing the point. I'm not here to discuss what ought to happen to EU students wanting to come and study after the transition period; I was specifically referring to PhD study. I have yet to find a single person, be it British, EU, or international, that chose to self-fund their PhD.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Cookiezi)
1. Well, it would be outrageous if they did otherwise. But as I said, most EU students are not as wealthy as international students, so if they increased the fees we would simply leave and the universities would receive a net less in tuition fees from us than had they left the rates intact, so it didn't make sense to increase the fees for current students at all. Of course, this doesn't matter for incoming students, as there would simply be more seats allocated to international students.

2. I was looking into that. It's a bit convoluted but I might be eligible to apply. There is a "pre-settled" status for people like me, which apparently is no different to the "settled" status.

3. I would argue that most EU students came here for employment also. And the visa system gives points for people with PhDs, not for people applying for PhDs.

4. Could you please enlighten me then what it is I don't understand about the loan system?

5. Last time I checked, British students were as likely to default if moving abroad as EU students, if not more.

I believe you are missing the point. I'm not here to discuss what ought to happen to EU students wanting to come and study after the transition period; I was specifically referring to PhD study. I have yet to find a single person, be it British, EU, or international, that chose to self-fund their PhD.
Well you did a good job on [persuading me you dont understand how the student loans you complain about actually work. I am not seeing why you think you are more important than UK students.

Well on the basis of your comprehensive search I guess PHDs are stuffed in the UK or maybe they will continue to be offered to Home and international students as before. the exact status of EU students will be decided by any trade negotiations. I would just apply elsewhere for now and see what happens, the UK has bigger things on its plate to decide.
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History98
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Well you did a good job on [persuading me you dont understand how the student loans you complain about actually work. I am not seeing why you think you are more important than UK students.

Well on the basis of your comprehensive search I guess PHDs are stuffed in the UK or maybe they will continue to be offered to Home and international students as before. the exact status of EU students will be decided by any trade negotiations. I would just apply elsewhere for now and see what happens, the UK has bigger things on its plate to decide.
Couldn't you have just tried to address the questions straight forwardly and politely? Your posts sound combative, it's almost as if you have something against the EU.
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999tigger
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(Original post by History98)
Couldn't you have just tried to address the questions straight forwardly and politely? Your posts sound combative, it's almost as if you have something against the EU.
I answered his question.
I then addressed some of his complaints which are actually based on his own misunderstandings and complaints of how student loans work.
I dont believe EU students once we have left should be treated any more favourably than UK students, unless its part of the trade deal. That is the whole point of leaving. Its up to the government and the EU to reach an agreement on this and a thousand other areas.

You are free to post your own answers.
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theuglypanda
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Well you did a good job on [persuading me you dont understand how the student loans you complain about actually work. I am not seeing why you think you are more important than UK students.

Well on the basis of your comprehensive search I guess PHDs are stuffed in the UK or maybe they will continue to be offered to Home and international students as before. the exact status of EU students will be decided by any trade negotiations. I would just apply elsewhere for now and see what happens, the UK has bigger things on its plate to decide.
If you were in the OP's position, you would say, and feel, in exactly the same way. You clearly lack basic empathy. Do you think it feels great when you've committed to paying £9k/year, lived in this country for quite a significant amount of time, whilst also paying taxes (?) only to be told that you'd need to pay £20k+ extra if you wish to continue with further studies, and not be eligible for any loans/grants? Answer: no. Your comments come across as inconsiderate and xenophobic.

A bit of advice to the OP: I suggest that you apply for the EU Settlement Scheme and get pre-settled status and then wait until you're eligible for settled status. It won't hurt you to do so. I'm saying this because you never know what may happen - the government may decide to give home fees to EU nationals with pre-settled status who applied through the settlement scheme. It's better to have it than not, right?
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ajj2000
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(Original post by Cookiezi)

The loan system makes sense in England, but it gets inane when one considers those that decide to move to lower-income countries. In my case, at the threshold salary, I would be required to pay almost 1/5th of my salary, which is absurdly high.
Which country is that? You never need to pay more than 9% of your salary above a lower limit.
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999tigger
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(Original post by theuglypanda)
If you were in the OP's position, you would say, and feel, in exactly the same way. You clearly lack basic empathy. Do you think it feels great when you've committed to paying £9k/year, lived in this country for quite a significant amount of time, whilst also paying taxes (?) only to be told that you'd need to pay £20k+ extra if you wish to continue with further studies, and not be eligible for any loans/grants? Answer: no. Your comments come across as inconsiderate and xenophobic.

A bit of advice to the OP: I suggest that you apply for the EU Settlement Scheme and get pre-settled status and then wait until you're eligible for settled status. It won't hurt you to do so. I'm saying this because you never know what may happen - the government may decide to give home fees to EU nationals with pre-settled status who applied through the settlement scheme. It's better to have it than not, right?
Complete rubbish.
I would wake up and realise most of that money will never be repaid.
I got a good education I couldnt get in my home country but can now choose one of the other 27 member states in which to do further studies or the rest of the world.
I would also do myself a favour and familiarise myself with negotiations and then I would realise how things are up in the air for everything.

Doing a PHD is not a right.
Because they are an EU student it doesnt make them more important than home students.
The point of not being in the EU means the UK no longer has to comply with EU obligations and can if it so chooses treat EU citizens the same as other internationals, just as UK citizens will be treated like that by the EU.

Its you thats creating the xenophobic, which is ridiculous. EU students are not more important than UK students from the viewpoint of the UK, you appear to seem to think otherwise. If the UK government wants to continue offering funding for PHD thats up to the UK, but if it wants to restrict them to home students that is their right or alternatively EU students will have the same opportunities as other international students for funding because we are no longer in the EU. I cant see why you think they should have any advantage (other than those allowed to settle).
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Gundabad(good)
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Hopefully Johnson will allow them to stay.
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999tigger
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(Original post by theuglypanda)
If you were in the OP's position, you would say, and feel, in exactly the same way. You clearly lack basic empathy. Do you think it feels great when you've committed to paying £9k/year, lived in this country for quite a significant amount of time, whilst also paying taxes (?) only to be told that you'd need to pay £20k+ extra if you wish to continue with further studies, and not be eligible for any loans/grants? Answer: no. Your comments come across as inconsiderate and xenophobic.

A bit of advice to the OP: I suggest that you apply for the EU Settlement Scheme and get pre-settled status and then wait until you're eligible for settled status. It won't hurt you to do so. I'm saying this because you never know what may happen - the government may decide to give home fees to EU nationals with pre-settled status who applied through the settlement scheme. It's better to have it than not, right?
Complete rubbish.
I would wake up and realise most of that money will never be repaid.
I got a good education I couldnt get in my home country but can now choose one of the other 27 member states in which to do further studies or the rest of the world.
I would also do myself a favour and familiarise myself with negotiations and then I would realise how things are up in the air for everything.

Doing a PHD is not a right.
Because they are an EU student it doesnt make them more important than home students.
The point of not being in the EU means the UK no longer has to comply with EU obligations and can if it so chooses treat EU citizens the same as other internationals, just as UK citizens will be treated like that by the EU.

Its you thats creating the xenophobic, which is ridiculous. EU students are not more important than UK students from the viewpoint of the UK, you appear to seem to think otherwise. If the UK government wants to continue offering funding for PHD thats up to the UK, but if it wants to restrict them to home students that is their right or alternatively EU students will have the same opportunities as other international students for funding because we are no longer in the EU. I cant see why you think they should have any advantage (other than those allowed to settle).

(Original post by Cookiezi)
1. Well, it would be outrageous if they did otherwise. But as I said, most EU students are not as wealthy as international students, so if they increased the fees we would simply leave and the universities would receive a net less in tuition fees from us than had they left the rates intact, so it didn't make sense to increase the fees for current students at all. Of course, this doesn't matter for incoming students, as there would simply be more seats allocated to international students.

2. I was looking into that. It's a bit convoluted but I might be eligible to apply. There is a "pre-settled" status for people like me, which apparently is no different to the "settled" status.

3. I would argue that most EU students came here for employment also. And the visa system gives points for people with PhDs, not for people applying for PhDs.

4. Could you please enlighten me then what it is I don't understand about the loan system?

5. Last time I checked, British students were as likely to default if moving abroad as EU students, if not more.

I believe you are missing the point. I'm not here to discuss what ought to happen to EU students wanting to come and study after the transition period; I was specifically referring to PhD study. I have yet to find a single person, be it British, EU, or international, that chose to self-fund their PhD.
1. The UK has done the right thing and treated you fairly without any pressure or bullying from the EU.
2. If you were here before we left you should be fine but you would have to wait it out. Again provisions made by the UK government when they didnt have to.
3. Unfortunately the world changes. We have left the EU, so you have 27 other countries to choose from, many offer better opportunities than the UK. Plans are subject to change and negotiations and that depends on the EU. It seems to be quite happy cutting UK unis out of European research, so the UK should do whats best for the UK.
4. 83% of students never repay the student loan and it only kicks in when you start earning over £25,000, so its not really a loan more like a tax or surcharge. Cant afford to pay then you wont be asked. You should have understood that when you signed and applied. Its the same deal UK students get. If you went home to whatever low paying country it is then its unlikely you would earn enough to break the ceiling. the exact level is a bit different for EU students. Your claims of massive repayments are misinformed.
5. Feel free to provide the data. Also how many UK students study in the EU using other countries student finance compared to EU students defaulting on UK student finance?
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theuglypanda
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Complete rubbish.
I would wake up and realise most of that money will never be repaid.
I got a good education I couldnt get in my home country but can now choose one of the other 27 member states in which to do further studies or the rest of the world.
I would also do myself a favour and familiarise myself with negotiations and then I would realise how things are up in the air for everything.

Doing a PHD is not a right.
Because they are an EU student it doesnt make them more important than home students.
The point of not being in the EU means the UK no longer has to comply with EU obligations and can if it so chooses treat EU citizens the same as other internationals, just as UK citizens will be treated like that by the EU.

Its you thats creating the xenophobic, which is ridiculous. EU students are not more important than UK students from the viewpoint of the UK, you appear to seem to think otherwise. If the UK government wants to continue offering funding for PHD thats up to the UK, but if it wants to restrict them to home students that is their right or alternatively EU students will have the same opportunities as other international students for funding because we are no longer in the EU. I cant see why you think they should have any advantage (other than those allowed to settle).
What? Please back your opinion with a reply that actually makes sense.

It's not right to cut off students from funding who have clearly invested a lot of time, money, sweat and tears into moving here already and getting their education. When did anyone ever say in this thread that EU students are more important than UK ones? I'm saying that people in situations such as the OP (who got a masters and wishes to study for a PhD (not may people here do that)) should be treated fairly and with respect, rather than being forced to pay the astronomical international fees, without any grants/loans for years and years.

As I said, if you were in this situation, you'd be acting in the same way. Your "complete rubbish" remark is again, inconsiderate.

My original reply focused on your attitude, not any political solutions. So please don't try to acknowledge your appallingly inconsiderate replies with politics.

I don't see how I'm the one being xenophobic when you're literally telling the OP, and any EU student in a similar situation for that matter, to get out and find another country to study or pay 20 grand extra.
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999tigger
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(Original post by theuglypanda)
What? Please back your opinion with a reply that actually makes sense.

It's not right to cut off students from funding who have clearly invested a lot of time, money, sweat and tears into moving here already and getting their education. When did anyone ever say in this thread that EU students are more important than UK ones? I'm saying that people in situations such as the OP (who got a masters and wishes to study for a PhD (not may people here do that)) should be treated fairly and with respect, rather than being forced to pay the astronomical international fees, without any grants/loans for years and years.

As I said, if you were in this situation, you'd be acting in the same way. Your "complete rubbish" remark is again, inconsiderate.

My original reply focused on your attitude, not any political solutions. So please don't try to acknowledge your appallingly inconsiderate replies with politics.

I don't see how I'm the one being xenophobic when you're literally telling the OP, and any EU student in a similar situation for that matter, to get out and find another country to study or pay 20 grand extra.
You fail to understand that leaving the EU no longer gives EU students the right of entitlement to continued benefits.
We have left. the OP is guaranteed the right to finish his course to masters level.
Why on earth should we guarantee a PHD when home students dont get that?
The UK can decide whatever rules it wants as its its money that pays for the funding and the EU is busy telling the UK it can no longer be part of EU research or projects. Why should EU students be treated favourably when we are no longer in the EU?

Nobody is forcing the OP to do anything, they can choose from 27 other EU countries, but as we are no longer in the EU it is only right he is treated as an international student, just like UK citizens will be within the EU.

You are the one that started accusing em of being xenophobic, because I have merely pointed out the reality that the UK has left the EU which means EU citizens shouldnt expect preferential treatment over home or international students. What is it about no longer being in the EU are you unable to understand?

As it is the UK government has treated existing students fairly telling them what will happen way in advance, making provision for them irrespective of there being no deal, allowing pre settlement and finally it is still open to address the issue in any trade deal.

Again this is you twisting things. I have said to the OP that we are no ,longer in the EU and to contonue to get the benefits of being in the EU then applying to EU countries may make more sense as they can access EU funding and cheaper courses. Doing a PHD is a luxury so I dont see why you should feel entitled to do so ,especially in a foreign country.
If a UK student wants to study in the UK or do a PHD, then they have to find funding like everyone else.
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MrBiggs01010101
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(Original post by Cookiezi)
So it happened, you left. The government has yet to finalize its immigration policies. What do you think will happen to EU students that are currently studying in the UK?

As one of such students, I'm disappointed by the outcome. I'm finishing my integrated masters in physics on June 2021, and hoped to continue onto a PhD afterwards, also in the UK, but I won't be able to do so if the fees were to increase, or if I stop being eligible for the EPSRC doctoral grants. I would kind of feel cheated if this were to happen, given the tremendous loans I've taken that I now have to pay back. On the other hand, I would never be able to pay them back in full if I were to return to my home country.
Well... I'm British born and lived in the UK all my life. BUT. Because my dad is Irish, I get Irish citizenship and therefore EU citizenship! Lucky me.
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theuglypanda
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(Original post by 999tigger)
You fail to understand that leaving the EU no longer gives EU students the right of entitlement to continued benefits.
We have left. the OP is guaranteed the right to finish his course to masters level.
Why on earth should we guarantee a PHD when home students dont get that?
The UK can decide whatever rules it wants as its its money that pays for the funding and the EU is busy telling the UK it can no longer be part of EU research or projects. Why should EU students be treated favourably when we are no longer in the EU?

Nobody is forcing the OP to do anything, they can choose from 27 other EU countries, but as we are no longer in the EU it is only right he is treated as an international student, just like UK citizens will be within the EU.

You are the one that started accusing em of being xenophobic, because I have merely pointed out the reality that the UK has left the EU which means EU citizens shouldnt expect preferential treatment over home or international students. What is it about no longer being in the EU are you unable to understand?

As it is the UK government has treated existing students fairly telling them what will happen way in advance, making provision for them irrespective of there being no deal, allowing pre settlement and finally it is still open to address the issue in any trade deal.

Again this is you twisting things. I have said to the OP that we are no ,longer in the EU and to contonue to get the benefits of being in the EU then applying to EU countries may make more sense as they can access EU funding and cheaper courses. Doing a PHD is a luxury so I dont see why you should feel entitled to do so ,especially in a foreign country.
If a UK student wants to study in the UK or do a PHD, then they have to find funding like everyone else.
Any UK citizen is entitled to the Doctoral loan. Not sure why you're saying that "home students aren't guaranteed a PhD"?

You're clearly missing my point. When you've committed to living here, you can't be expected to pay ridiculous fees. You'd be complaining in exactly the same way if you were in the OP's position.

If you don't want to admit that you're morally wrong, or that your comments came across as xenophobic, go ahead, put the blame on me. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who doesn't listen to other people's views and opinions.
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999tigger
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#19
(Original post by theuglypanda)
Any UK citizen is entitled to the Doctoral loan. Not sure why you're saying that "home students aren't guaranteed a PhD"?

You're clearly missing my point. When you've committed to living here, you can't be expected to pay ridiculous fees. You'd be complaining in exactly the same way if you were in the OP's position.

If you don't want to admit that you're morally wrong, or that your comments came across as xenophobic, go ahead, put the blame on me. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who doesn't listen to other people's views and opinions.
Doctoral loans and all postgrad loans are relatively new.

You lack any awareness that Brexit is a decision on a national level that a country has decided it no longer wishes to be in the EU. When the UK has left then its duty is to look after its own citizens. The UK has gone above and beyond that. Nobody expects them to pay ridiculous fees because they have the choice to pick from any of the 27 remaining members that are still in the EU. What is it you dont understand about no longer being in the EU? Life has moved on.

Your claim of morally wrong is ridiculous. The UK is no longer entitled to UK support because they are a foreign national and we are no longer in the club that gave them rights in this country. Same applies to UK citizens in the EU. In any event we have the settled status system and whatever the EU chooses to negotiate as part of the trade deal, so we ahve been more than fair enough.

You keep calling me xenophobic, which you should actually provide some evidence of.
The UK has left the EU which means it does not benefit from being a member, but is also no longer under the obligations it was under when it was a member. How are you unable to understand that? Other countries can take care of their own citizens, not the UKs responsibility. Nothing xenophobic about that.

As it is the settled status will offer protection for most people who were here.
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