Coronavirus Megathread: UK goes into full lockdown

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AngeryPenguin
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#181
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#181
USA: Doctors frustrated by the lack of available tests for coronavirus

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...5-2d5d13f37cd8

"We as physicians have been pretty frustrated because we're seeing patients who we're very concerned have coronavirus that we have been unable to test," says Dr. Monique Pritchard.

She says when a patient comes in with symptoms of the coronavirus, they've asked the Oregon Health Authority to have them tested, but they've been denied.


After a weeks long delay, thousands of coronavirus test kits are headed to state and local laboratories, Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday.
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nulli tertius
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#182
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#182
(Original post by Reality Check)
Category error, essentially?
Yes.

All the attributes of intangible property and artificial persons derive solely from the legal system.

Many of the attributes of individuals and tangible assets derive from the natural world and the law has to reflect that. If the law said a brick only lasted a certain number of years, like a patent, the brick wouldn’t vanish when that period elapsed.

The law has to reflect the continued existence of the brick. The law may mandate that the brick be destroyed but until that happens there has to be a law applicable to bricks. There is no property in a corpse but that does not obviate the need to dispose of dead bodies.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Yes.

All the attributes of intangible property and artificial persons derive solely from the legal system.

Many of the attributes of individuals and tangible assets derive from the natural world and the law has to reflect that. If the law said a brick only lasted a certain number of years, like a patent, the brick wouldn’t vanish when that period elapsed.

The law has to reflect the continued existence of the brick. The law may mandate that the brick be destroyed but until that happens there has to be a law applicable to bricks. There is no property in a corpse but that does not obviate the need to dispose of dead bodies.
I knew you were the right person to tag. That clears it up for me nicely. Thanks too for a sighting of the Lesser Spotted TSR Subjunctive: a rare breed.
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Wired_1800
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#184
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#184
(Original post by CoolCavy)
Good job there isn't a massive event for people and animals all around the world being held in birmingham for the next 4 days, oh wait...
What is happening in Birmingham?
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CoolCavy
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#185
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#185
(Original post by Wired_1800)
What is happening in Birmingham?
Crufts, unfortunate from both a welfare standpoint and a viral one
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Yes.

All the attributes of intangible property and artificial persons derive solely from the legal system.

Many of the attributes of individuals and tangible assets derive from the natural world and the law has to reflect that. If the law said a brick only lasted a certain number of years, like a patent, the brick wouldn’t vanish when that period elapsed.

The law has to reflect the continued existence of the brick. The law may mandate that the brick be destroyed but until that happens there has to be a law applicable to bricks. There is no property in a corpse but that does not obviate the need to dispose of dead bodies.
So glad I didn't do law. :embarrassed:
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powers2964
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#187
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#187
Apparently the first death in switzerland has occurred from it?
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karl pilkington
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#188
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Now it is probably gonna spread in this country. They had a chance to stop it but the government was too weak allowing people in the country.
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Wired_1800
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#189
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#189
(Original post by CoolCavy)
Crufts, unfortunate from both a welfare standpoint and a viral one
They should not hold the event.
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DiddyDec
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#190
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#190
(Original post by karl pilkington)
Now it is probably gonna spread in this country. They had a chance to stop it but the government was too weak allowing people in the country.
Maybe that is what the government want, a cull of the old via "natural" means.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Maybe that is what the government want, a cull of the old via "natural" means.
Although the thought is despicable, I have wondered myself if some in government (you know who you are Cummings, Duncan-Smith, Rees-Mogg, etc) might not see this as a convenient time to do away with some strains on state finances. After all, we know that these extremist Tories are all eugenicists.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Although the thought is despicable, I have wondered myself if some in government (you know who you are Cummings, Duncan-Smith, Rees-Mogg, etc) might not see this as a convenient time to do away with some strains on state finances. After all, we know that these extremist Tories are all eugenicists.
Anything is possible.
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NJA
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Yes.

All the attributes of intangible property and artificial persons derive solely from the legal system.

Many of the attributes of individuals and tangible assets derive from the natural world and the law has to reflect that. If the law said a brick only lasted a certain number of years, like a patent, the brick wouldn’t vanish when that period elapsed.

The law has to reflect the continued existence of the brick. The law may mandate that the brick be destroyed but until that happens there has to be a law applicable to bricks. There is no property in a corpse but that does not obviate the need to dispose of dead bodies.
I asked a friend who knows more than me his response was:
There is no such legal definition as intellectual property and the people who use it are mostly idiots. He is referring to patents, which are licences issued to inventors of genuinely new things for up to 20 years to give them a monopoly to manufacture or licence to others to manufacture. No patent and the idea may be used freely by anyone. So there is no theft, just the expiry of a licenced monopoly. No tangibles are involved as quite often, especially with software, nothing has been manufactured. But a bicycle is a tangible asset involving material and manufacturing costs.
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fallen_acorns
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so our two legal experts have nicely laid out the difference in the way the law treats a patent and tangible goods.. or in the broader sense an idea vs a physical object.

Which gets to the point - if the basis of your argument is:

Theft is theft. Theft is wrong.

The only possible way you can have that make sense in this context is if you treat patents/tangible goods as the same thing. If they are different (which legally and philosophically they clearly are) then you have room to discuss the rights of the holder of each, and the potential theft of each, and how they may differ. Which is the nature of the debate around patents and the third world, how should they be administered, how global should your rights reach? what should the length of the monopoly be, should there be exceptions for different industries/types of idea etc. etc.

But that debate can't be won/shut down by saying: theft is wrong. end of. That ignores the difference categories of thing that can be stolen, and it ignores how we already make societal and legal distinctions between what theft means for each of the categories. Which is what I was trying to get you (the poster I replied to) to reach by answering the question.. once you draw the distinction, you can no longer just hold the position theft is theft no matter what, and its wrong. You then have to actually form an argument that says: Why 20 years.. not 10? Why global not national? etc.
Last edited by fallen_acorns; 3 weeks ago
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AngeryPenguin
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#195
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Maybe that is what the government want, a cull of the old via "natural" means.
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Although the thought is despicable, I have wondered myself if some in government (you know who you are Cummings, Duncan-Smith, Rees-Mogg, etc) might not see this as a convenient time to do away with some strains on state finances. After all, we know that these extremist Tories are all eugenicists.
The virus is an unknown. The long-term costs of it to survivors are unknown, and could involve large costs.

Remember: 4-20x as many people are hospitalized with serious complications than actually end up dying, depending on quality of care. They could have significant long-term ailments arising from both the viral disease and its treatment (which currently is experimentally using rather nasty cocktails of drugs for HIV and dengue fever, for instance). Scarred lungs, neurological damage, kidney damage, heart damage are among the most widely discussed potential side-effects of surviving COVID-19, based on what we know of SARS, HIV and severe flus.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
The virus is an unknown. The long-term costs of it to survivors are unknown, and could involve large costs.
I didn't say that Cummings et al know what they are doing. All available evidence indicates that they are very confused individuals.
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the beer
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Although the thought is despicable, I have wondered myself if some in government (you know who you are Cummings, Duncan-Smith, Rees-Mogg, etc) might not see this as a convenient time to do away with some strains on state finances. After all, we know that these extremist Tories are all eugenicists.
But then who will be left to vote for them?
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AngeryPenguin
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#198
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#198
Another cruise ship, 2500 on board, quarantined off of California due to coronavirus exposure

The prior voyage of this cruise ship had 2 confirmed cases (1 of whom died). The passengers from that ship got off in San Francisco without quarantine, and new infections in the area are being sourced back to it.

This ship is now being quarantined off the coast due to those 2 cases (due to the possibility of crew infections and contaminated surfaces causing infections).

According to 2 passengers, they have not been quarantined (to their rooms), but advised (by crew) to avoid crowded areas.

https://youtu.be/o-fiPS7B_IE?t=589
Last edited by AngeryPenguin; 3 weeks ago
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AngeryPenguin
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#199
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#199
Firefighters and police who were sent to a coronavirus-hit nursing home to transport patients have been quarantined after displaying flu-like symptoms




https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...on-coronavirus
https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/nearly...r-coronavirus/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/u...sing-home.html

Love how China, South Korea and Italy transport patients using medics equipped with full hazmat suits, while America sends medically untrained firefighters without even masks (some went back to get a mask only after seeing nursing home staff wear them), and only quarantines them a week later.

Last edited by AngeryPenguin; 3 weeks ago
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Sammx0x
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#200
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coronavirus LIVE UPDATE BY COUNTRIES
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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