Gender study finds 90% of people are biased against women.

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Andrew97
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51751915


The study by the UN found that 90% of men, and women, have a bias against females.

Globally 50% (or thereabouts) of men said they had more of a right to a job than a woman (id be interested to know how many said they have more right than another man) and the report claims there are no countries with gender equality.

Countries also said men make better political leaders, 55% in China believe this. Interestingly in New Zealand, which has a female Pm 27% think this.


What do we think of this?
I think it interesting that a significant number of women think this as well.
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Ascend
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Thanks for posting, it'll be interesting to go through the paper itself. If it's like the other UN Human Development Reports then it should be very good.

http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/fi...tives_gsni.pdf
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AnonymousNoMore
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I haven't had the chance to go through the report myself yet, but those statistics you stated are very interesting.
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bluemuffin
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Wow wasn’t expecting that
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AnonymousNoMore
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1/3rd thought it was okay for men to hit their partners. Just wow.
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Ascend
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(Original post by Andrew97)
I think it interesting that a significant number of women think this as well.
The notion that people hold ideological beliefs against their self-interest (from certain religious women to poor Trump supporters) is worth looking into but it seems really contested with not much of a consensus except perhaps that many people don't make rational choices.

Currently reading Dennis Chong's Rational Lives: Norms and Values in Politics and Society (2000) where he looks at socialisation and conformity, the development of norms and conventions, the diffusion of ideas, patterns of public opinion formation, habitual versus rational choice, partisan and ideological choice, and the circumstances in which principles/values may prevail over self-interest. He cites a paper on symbolic politics with the following account:

"One possibility is that self-interest is typically overwhelmed by long-held, emotionally powerful predispositions. According to this account, people acquire predispositions (like racial prejudice or nationalism) early in life that shape their political views in adulthood. Interpretation and evaluation of political events are essentially affective responses to salient symbols that resemble the attitude objects to which similar emotional responses were conditioned in earlier life. Whether or not the event has some tangible consequence for the citizen's personal life is irrelevant; the pertinent personal stake is a symbolic one, which triggers long-held, affect-laden, habitual responses."

This makes sense. Basically, indoctrination.
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Ascend
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Pinkisk ThatOldGuy LiberOfLondon

Continuing on from our discussions in the Men's Rights thread... thoughts?
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vicvic38
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(Original post by Ascend)
The notion that people hold ideological beliefs against their self-interest (from certain religious women to poor Trump supporters) is worth looking into but it seems really contested with not much of a consensus except perhaps that many people don't make rational choices.

Currently reading Dennis Chong's Rational Lives: Norms and Values in Politics and Society (2000) where he looks at socialisation and conformity, the development of norms and conventions, the diffusion of ideas, patterns of public opinion formation, habitual versus rational choice, partisan and ideological choice, and the circumstances in which principles/values may prevail over self-interest. He cites a paper on symbolic politics with the following account:

"One possibility is that self-interest is typically overwhelmed by long-held, emotionally powerful predispositions. According to this account, people acquire predispositions (like racial prejudice or nationalism) early in life that shape their political views in adulthood. Interpretation and evaluation of political events are essentially affective responses to salient symbols that resemble the attitude objects to which similar emotional responses were conditioned in earlier life. Whether or not the event has some tangible consequence for the citizen's personal life is irrelevant; the pertinent personal stake is a symbolic one, which triggers long-held, affect-laden, habitual responses."

This makes sense. Basically, indoctrination.
Many people hold beliefs against their self interest because they are afforded certain privileges by the system that wishes to institute these views. Take for historical example, house slaves in the southern states of the USA. Many of these slaves, contrary to what you would expect, wanted to keep the system going because they were able to work inside and were treated marginally better than their peers. For Literary example, take The Handmaid's Tale. Gilead could not exist if there were not women like Serena Joy willing to throw their fellow women under the bus to win privileges.

In my opinion we're seeing women who either fit well in to small c conservative societies who have it good and so do not want the status quo to change, or don't want to rock the boat for fear of reprisal.

It is reflected in the whole "Not like other girls" thing that has become a talking point in the last 4 years (but has been around for a lot longer than that.) Women and girls who cling to this trope of "being one of the guys" do it to win kudos with men, because that is what society says they should want. In reality, it is in these women's best interests to validate other women, and cease appealing to men for validation.
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shebk
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I'm a male, but I agree with gender equality.
I think women have kinder heart than men, while their ability is as good as men.
If I import foreign workers, I prefer female than male, because they have the same ability and more safe
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ThatOldGuy
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(Original post by Ascend)
Pinkisk ThatOldGuy LiberOfLondon

Continuing on from our discussions in the Men's Rights thread... thoughts?
Frustrating. The original report is here:

http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/fi...tives_gsni.pdf

After finding this, the very first thing I looked for was the methodology. The only mention of methodology was the methodology of one of the studies this particular report references, which is:

A third Gender Social Norms Index (GSNI) follows the synthetic
Alkire–Foster methodology (GNI/AF), which implements a version
of the intersection approach (to define the headcount of biased
individuals) coupled with a measure of the intensity of biases (see
Mukhopadhyay, Rivera and Tapia 2019).

As someone who is a Data Analyst and not a gender studies specialist, this required that I investigate this - The only mentioned methodology in the entire report. Upon researching that, I learned that the Alkire-Foster methodology is not gendered at all and, in fact, is used to measure poverty levels.

This meant that I have absolutely nothing intelligent to say about the report because I can't. I can't check its methodology. I can't check or verify its research. It is essentially an argument by fiat - "This is because I say it is. Trust me."

As a Data Analyst, I am disinclined to do that because it says more about the biases of the reader than the research itself.

EDIT: As there are literally hundreds of various references in this I could rabbit hole down, it is possible if I spent a few hundred hours investigating this report that I could find the methodology and questions. I will not be doing that, though if someone else does feel free to point me to it and I'll give a better response.
Last edited by ThatOldGuy; 4 months ago
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by Ascend)
Thanks for posting, it'll be interesting to go through the paper itself. If it's like the other UN Human Development Reports then it should be very good.

http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/fi...tives_gsni.pdf
A biased study about gender bias, by feminists working in a highly bureaucratic, biased organisation, namely the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), where feminism is highly institutionalised. The study peddles feminist theories about gender as facts.

Point of interest: Radical feminist Charlotte Bunch is a top advisor to the UN on women's issues and she has had huge influence on the UNDP. Charlotte is a feminist separatist. Feminist separatism is a branch of feminism that believes that all women are lesbians and that the only way to defeating the patriarchy is to separate women from men on all levels, in all societies. The UNDP website has many of her articles and quotations. This is an example of how biased and unreliable the UN is.

Feminism claims that it lacks power, that it's marginalised and ostracised, that its the underdog when in actual fact it wields huge influence, exemplified by its prominence and control within highly influential organisation such as the UN and its voice is projected to the world through the largest media corporations e.g. the BBC.

Image

This is not what disadvantage looks like. True victims of discrimination and disadvantage have no power. They have no voice.

Here's another example from Amnesty International. Last year they started a campaign called the "Feminist Wikipedia Takeover". I kid you not, this is what they actually named this campaign. It involves amnesty international coordinating and funding thousands of feminists across the globe to edit Wikipedia such that it presents a more favourable picture of feminism and its ideas.



Feminist research has zero credibility. All their research is aimed at proving forgone conclusions. Its all heavily corrupt and bias. Have you heard of those academics who recently managed to publish rubbish in the top feminist research magazines in the world?... They even managed to publish parts of Hitler's Mein Kampf in one prominent feminist research paper.



Feminism is a highly corrupt, Machiavellian ideology, that has zero credibility in the world of research. It does not care about the truth. Feminism is a pursuit of power and control by deception, manipulation, distortion, violence, bullying, censorship. It's a pursuit of power and authority at any cost and by any means possible.
Last edited by Pinkisk; 4 months ago
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LiberOfLondon
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I believe that there are immutable differences between the sexes. Am I biased against women according to this study?

I'd also like to know where complementarianism fits into all of this.
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Chief Wiggum
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Typical left-wing feminist nonsense from the UN.
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Haviland-Tuf
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Tell me something I don't know. Women are treated by men as second class citizens. We work twice as hard as men but get half the credit and even less in terms of equal pay. The great shame though is that some women have internalised misogyny perpetuated by the same patriarchal institutions that have been holding women back since records began.

Men need to either support us or shut up and get out of our way.
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ThatOldGuy
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(Original post by Haviland-Tuf)
Men need to either support us or shut up and get out of our way.
I want you to imagine that a guy just said, "Women need to either support us or shut up and get out of our way."

That is exactly how influenced other people are in supporting your point of view with this lesson. And maybe you don't care if your point of view is taken seriously and this is more an expression of emotion with no intention to try to change things. Because this definitely isn't the way you do it.
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username5138798
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I think this is pretty self evident. Feminists have a lot work to do still.
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Haviland-Tuf
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(Original post by ThatOldGuy)
I want you to imagine that a guy just said, "Women need to either support us or shut up and get out of our way."

That is exactly how influenced other people are in supporting your point of view with this lesson. And maybe you don't care if your point of view is taken seriously and this is more an expression of emotion with no intention to try to change things. Because this definitely isn't the way you do it.
When men demonstrate agency and self-determination it is accepted as part and parcel of heteronormative masculinity. However, when a woman shows agency by using her capacity to act independently and to make her own free choices she's labelled as emotional and hysterical as you have just demonstrated in your post.

Historically, the patriarchal structures (such as social class, religion, ethnicity, cultural customs, hierarchy etc.) are the same ones that determine or limit the feminist agency and our'capacity to make decisions for ourselves. In this way, ordinary and everyday men like yourself are complicit in female oppression when you remain silent and don't call out the patriarchy which has benefited your male ancestors and benefits you even now.
Last edited by Haviland-Tuf; 4 months ago
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ThatOldGuy
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(Original post by Haviland-Tuf)
When men demonstrate agency and self-determination it is accepted as part and parcel of heteronormative masculinity. However, when a woman shows agency by using her capacity to act independently and to make her own free choices she's labelled as emotional and hysterical as you have just demonstrated in your post.

Historically, the patriarchal structures (such as social class, religion, ethnicity, cultural customs, hierarchy etc.) are the same ones that determine or limit the feminist agency and our'capacity to make decisions for ourselves. In this way, ordinary and everyday men like yourself are complicit in female oppression when you remain silent and don't call out the patriarchy which has benefited your male ancestors and benefits you even now.
It's interesting that you don't think a man saying "Women need to either support us or shut up and get out of our way." isn't being emotional, and it's just part and parcel to being a man. Do you think maybe that might be your own sexism rather than reality? Because I'm fairly certain that if a male genuinely and unironically said that, he would not get a 'Boys will be boys' response.

I also would challenge the idea that we live in a patriarchy. So as not to repeat ourselves, go read the 'Men's Rights' thread that Ascend originally was speaking of. I am highly dubious that we are, do, or did live in a 'Patriarchy'.
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Just my opinion
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Come back when you have a similar survey for the UK and not some backward sh1thole countries
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
Feminist separatism is a branch of feminism that believes that all women are lesbians and that the only way to defeating the patriarchy is to separate women from men on all levels, in all societies.
:facepalm2:
How do these feminists propose to have children when all us men are extinct?

More to the point, why do I have a feeling these theories are proposed by feminists and then have any criticism of them met with ”FeMiNiSm JuSt MeAnS EqUaL RiGhTs”? You can either have your ideology mean equal rights for women or female supremacy, but you can't do both.
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