Am I going to hell?

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Anonymous #2
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#41
(Original post by Cryoraptor)
I don't want to turn this into a debate but I must ask, what evidence exactly?
what evidence exactly have you got for no God existing ?
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fanofeverything
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#42
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(Original post by 🦁Road to A** 🦁)
I have to be baptised again? Ehhh oki
If you’ve done anything wrong and haven’t even living through Christ then, yes. That channel is really good and has helped me stay on track.
Elevation Church, truth unedited and vous Church is also quite good 😊

also, make sure you’re in a church and just reading the bible! Things like that. God bless you
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Cryoraptor
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#43
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(Original post by Anonymous)
what evidence exactly have you got for no God existing ?
That's not an argument. I doubt the existence of god because there's no evidence to say he exists. I am agnostic as I can't prove nor disprove that there is a god but the evidence is there to suggest that we are the product of purely natural processes, and a god is not needed to explain anything. Perhaps there is a deity that began the universe but did it create us? No.

Saying that because I can't disprove god definitively means there is a god is a logical fallacy. I have stated that I can't disprove god but I can't prove it either. The burden of proof is on you to show me evidence that there is indeed a god, and considering you most likely believe god is behind our formation is some way or another, how said god was involved in making us. I say that there is no evidence that we couldn't have evolved naturally.
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
That's not an argument. I doubt the existence of god because there's no evidence to say he exists. I am agnostic as I can't prove nor disprove that there is a god but the evidence is there to suggest that we are the product of purely natural processes, and a god is not needed to explain anything. Perhaps there is a deity that began the universe but did it create us? No.

Saying that because I can't disprove god definitively means there is a god is a logical fallacy. I have stated that I can't disprove god but I can't prove it either. The burden of proof is on you to show me evidence that there is indeed a god, and considering you most likely believe god is behind our formation is some way or another, how said god was involved in making us. I say that there is no evidence that we couldn't have evolved naturally.
Easy to say something is not an argument, rather than you can't answer it. You say there is no evidence to say God exists, my point is that there is no evidence 'no God exists', the same way there is no evidence to suggest that climate change isn't caused by humans. I am also agnostic in the sense I can't prove or disprove God but I am more on the 'he exists' side because it's impossible to create something out of nothing, at least scientifically. I believe in evolution in the sense that dogs came from wolves, but not in the sense of humans coming from apes. If you want to ask me more about that, go ahead

I never said there is a God because you can't disprove it, so you've ironically committed a fallacy fallacy there . I am on your side in the sense that I am not going to able to prove or disprove God to you , I think we share more in common than you think. Why would the burden of proof be on me when I have not asserted anything to be true ? You say there is no evidence that we couldn't have evolved naturally. Correct. There is also no evidence to say we have evolved from apes
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Cryoraptor
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I am more on the 'he exists' side because it's impossible to create something out of nothing, at least scientifically
Oh no...

Something did not come from nothing. Nothing is not actually nothing in the sense of the word; nothing is quantum fluctuations and virtual particles. It is now suspected that through a chance quantum fluctuation, this process produced the big bang. We are basically a more complicated form of nothing, as the overall force of the universe (matter = positive, energy in the form of gravitational force = negative) comes out as neutral. 0. Nothing.

Where did the quantum fluctuations come from? The same as the question, 'where did god come from'. We don't know.

I believe in evolution in the sense that dogs came from wolves, but not in the sense of humans coming from apes. If you want to ask me more about that, go ahead
Oh deary me...

We did not 'come from apes'. We ARE apes. We share a common ancestor with modern chimpanzees, and that ancestor shares a common ancestor with modern gorillas, and that ancestor shares a common ancestor with modern orangutans, and that ancestor shares a common ancestor with modern gibbons, and THAT ancestor shares a common ancestor with the ancestor of modern old world monkeys. We are just as much hominids as any other great ape. We are simians. We didn't evolve from any modern animal, we are part of the lineage. And eventually, we will be the common ancestor of two or more new species, which will in turn eventually be common ancestors of new genera, etc. etc.. We are not a final point, we are simply part of the ever-diverging lineage.
As for the 'dogs came from wolves', that's not evolution. That's selective breeding of recessive mutations. Modern domestic dogs would not have emerged if it weren't for us deliberately selecting recessive mutations that showed up over hundreds and thousands of years. Evolution is concerned with the process of one species evolving into new species over time through millions of years of adaptation to new environments.

I never said there is a God because you can't disprove it, so you've ironically committed a fallacy fallacy there .
Nope, you answered my question of 'what evidence exactly' with 'well do you have any evidence to disprove god', implying that he exists because nobody can disprove his existence, which isn't an argument.

Why would the burden of proof be on me when I have not asserted anything to be true ?
Because you asserted that there is solid evidence for a god existing, and I asked you for said evidence. Your response was, 'disprove it', which is not evidence. I'm saying that god probably doesn't exist and definitely didn't intervene in our evolution because of your lack of evidence to suggest that is the case. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you.

There is also no evidence to say we have evolved from apes
Total lie. It's fairly obvious that we are closely related to modern non-human apes just by the physical similarity, but genetic testing also strongly suggests that we are closely related, and evolution explains that by saying we evolved from a common ancestor. There IS significant evidence for evolution, but there is no evidence for godly intervention. So which one do we believe?

Judging from your posts, your belief that a god created us stems from your lack of understanding and ignorance of the subject.
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Anonymous #2
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#46
(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Oh no...

Something did not come from nothing. Nothing is not actually nothing in the sense of the word; nothing is quantum fluctuations and virtual particles. It is now suspected that through a chance quantum fluctuation, this process produced the big bang. We are basically a more complicated form of nothing, as the overall force of the universe (matter = positive, energy in the form of gravitational force = negative) comes out as neutral. 0. Nothing.

Where did the quantum fluctuations come from? The same as the question, 'where did god come from'. We don't know.
This is funny , nothing is 'not a single thing, not anything'. Nothing is nothing. Nothing is not something. Otherwise, you have a whole new thing to deal with. What created the laws of how the quantum fluctuations acted ? It's not complicated to say that nothing is nothing.

Fair enough, we don't know where the fluctuations came from or where God came from, but one of those things has to always exist (supernaturally) to ensure the universe's time is finite.

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Oh deary me...

We did not 'come from apes'. We ARE apes. We share a common ancestor with modern chimpanzees, and that ancestor shares a common ancestor with modern gorillas, and that ancestor shares a common ancestor with modern orangutans, and that ancestor shares a common ancestor with modern gibbons, and THAT ancestor shares a common ancestor with the ancestor of modern old world monkeys. We are just as much hominids as any other great ape. We are simians. We didn't evolve from any modern animal, we are part of the lineage. And eventually, we will be the common ancestor of two or more new species, which will in turn eventually be common ancestors of new genera, etc. etc.. We are not a final point, we are simply part of the ever-diverging lineage.
As for the 'dogs came from wolves', that's not evolution. That's selective breeding of recessive mutations. Modern domestic dogs would not have emerged if it weren't for us deliberately selecting recessive mutations that showed up over hundreds and thousands of years. Evolution is concerned with the process of one species evolving into new species over time through millions of years of adaptation to new environments.
Do you really expect me to believe that every single living creature on this Earth came from single-celled creatures, surviving extremely hot temperatures when the Earth was created, and coming from nothing but quantum fluctuations ? How would a single-celled organism decide all of the genetic information for every species ever made ? Why does a cell decide it wants to or needs to 'mutate' into something else and evolve over time ? Of course, it needs some sort of genetic code to mutate at some point in time. The statement 'God doesn't exist' is not an explanation of how these single-celled organisms had the information to mutate in the first place

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Nope, you answered my question of 'what evidence exactly' with 'well do you have any evidence to disprove god', implying that he exists because nobody can disprove his existence, which isn't an argument.
You've misinterpreted my argument yet again. I should set up a counter. If you're going to ask me for the burden of proof for an answer I haven't given, I'm going to assume you have the proof for an answer to a question you are throwing at me. Hence why I asked if you had evidence to disprove God. I never said he exists because nobody can disprove his existence, that would be absurd. It's not an argument but neither is your argument, an argument. Just wasting my time at this point but I have to reply otherwise it looks like you are correct which you aren't with absolute certainty

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Because you asserted that there is solid evidence for a god existing, and I asked you for said evidence. Your response was, 'disprove it', which is not evidence. I'm saying that god probably doesn't exist and definitely didn't intervene in our evolution because of your lack of evidence to suggest that is the case. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you.

Strawman argument again. I didn't say there was solid evidence for God existing, I just said there was good reason for believing in it, likewise with believing he doesn't exist. You're saying that he probably doesn't exist, which is a rational position. I'm saying that he probably does exist, which is a rational position. Saying he definitely does or definitely isn't is not rational. It's blind faith because you assume you know everything about time, the universe and everything. You've put up a theory of evolution, please tell me why I should treat it like gospel when it doesn't even answer how the first living single-celled organism came to light. I'll wait

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Total lie. It's fairly obvious that we are closely related to modern non-human apes just by the physical similarity, but genetic testing also strongly suggests that we are closely related, and evolution explains that by saying we evolved from a common ancestor. There IS significant evidence for evolution, but there is no evidence for godly intervention. So which one do we believe?
You literally just said we ARE APES , are we apes or are we related to them in your view ? Don't be fickle and pick a side. Why haven't all the other apes evolved into humans as well then ? How did a single-celled organism evolve into every other organism and how did it know to do that ? The burden of proof is back on your side.

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Judging from your posts, your belief that a god created us stems from your lack of understanding and ignorance of the subject.
So what created us ? quantum fluctuations ?
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snazzy viking
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#47
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bruhhhh
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Anonymous #7
#48
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you're overthinking this WAAAAY too much. first of all flaws can be changed and if you avoid ever killing anybody then you are nothing like your father. secondly yes many things in life were made by slaves but again we don't get the sin for buying stuff that was made by a slave. its only the people who chose to keep and mistreat these slaves who will be getting the sin. most importantly God is all forgiving. if you want to avoid hell its never to late to change. become a better person, do more deeds, give to charity. be nicer. help people more. theres good deeds in many things, from smiling at people to helping someone with something to even doing chores around the house or breaking up a fight. pray as often as you can, even if its just a little prayer you say before you go to sleep. and above all else ALWAYS ask for forgiveness. day in and day out. repent, repent, repent (and mean it!) and God willing you will be spared from the fires of hell when you pass.
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Cryoraptor
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What created the laws of how the quantum fluctuations acted ?
Again, who or what created god? Mocking quantum fluctuations because 'we don't know what caused them' is very hypocritical from a god-supporting position.

Do you really expect me to believe that every single living creature on this Earth came from single-celled creatures, surviving extremely hot temperatures when the Earth was created, and coming from nothing but quantum fluctuations ? How would a single-celled organism decide all of the genetic information for every species ever made ? Why does a cell decide it wants to or needs to 'mutate' into something else and evolve over time ? Of course, it needs some sort of genetic code to mutate at some point in time. The statement 'God doesn't exist' is not an explanation of how these single-celled organisms had the information to mutate in the first place
LMFAO!!! This is what we call an Argument from Personal Incredulity.

What do you mean, surviving extremely hot temperatures? Life evolved 3.9 billion years ago, AFTER the Earth became cool enough to support water on its surface.

'and coming from nothing but quantum fluctuations' You're conflating my argument about the origin of the big bang with the origin of life, somehow. No, it didn't start from quantum fluctuations, it started from the first molecules of RNA. Over time this self-replicating molecule evolved things such as a protective capsule and eventually became what we would now consider a bacterial cell.

'How would a single-celled organism decide all of the genetic information for every species ever made ?' Pointless question, it didn't decide anything. New genetic code, mutations evolved over time by pure chance. When you replicate a molecule billions of times a day, random changes start to occur quite often.

'Why does a cell decide it wants to or needs to 'mutate' into something else and evolve over time ?' Did you ever go to school? It doesn't decide anything, mutations occur at random and the good ones that give the organism some sort of advantage stick around. Come on, you literally learn this in school. You can't be this incredulous.

'Of course, it needs some sort of genetic code to mutate at some point in time.' Yes, and the basis of that would be the first ever molecule of RNA on Earth that under the intensely pressured conditions of the ocean bottom formed by chance roughly 3.9 billion years ago. Immediately after replication it would begin changing.

'The statement 'God doesn't exist' is not an explanation of how these single-celled organisms had the information to mutate in the first place' And I never said it was an explanation. Are you mentally challenged? Please tell me where I said this.

Hence why I asked if you had evidence to disprove God
And as I said before, the lack of evidence supporting a god and/or divine intervention is what leads me to doubt his existence.

I never said he exists because nobody can disprove his existence, that would be absurd.
You say this, but you just said that the lack of evidence supporting the existence of god isn't a good enough reason to doubt his existence. That is frankly idiotic logic.

I didn't say there was solid evidence for God existing
I do believe there is sound evidence for God existing
Please don't tell me I made this up.

I'm saying that he probably does exist, which is a rational position.
Except it's not, because there's no good reason to believe that he does. Reason being that there's no evidence AND everything we know about the universe has a natural explanation and doesn't need goddidit.

Saying he definitely does or definitely isn't is not rational. It's blind faith because you assume you know everything about time, the universe and everything
...Are you serious? I said myself that I am agnostic. I never said that he definitely doesn't, because I can't actually disprove that a deity of some kind exists. I just think that we have sufficient knowledge to conclude for sure that they didn't intervene in any natural processes because there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case.

You've put up a theory of evolution, please tell me why I should treat it like gospel
Because it makes sense and we have a lot of evidence to suggest that all life has a common ancestor and the process of adaptation which in the long run leads to evolution is well-understood. As opposed to that, an invisible god that nobody has ever seen or known that supposedly created us sounds more like a fairy-tale than an explanation.

when it doesn't even answer how the first living single-celled organism came to light
And? It's not concerned with how life emerged, it's concerned with how life adapts to new environments and changes over time. You're conflating evolution and abiogenesis.

You literally just said we ARE APES , are we apes or are we related to them in your view ? Don't be fickle and pick a side.
Is this a joke? I said, 'modern NON-HUMAN APES', you total spastic.

Why haven't all the other apes evolved into humans as well then ?
Because it wasn't beneficial to them. They stayed in an environment that favours their current lifestyles. Our ancestors on the other hand stayed in an environment that favoured intelligence.

How did a single-celled organism evolve into every other organism and how did it know to do that ?
Through progressive mutations over billions of years that eventually resulted in multiple cells working as one unit, each with different jobs, and even further down the line they became entire animals with millions of each type of cell. 2.9 billion years is an extremely long amount of time and allows for an uncountable number of mutations to occur that eventually result in modern animals as well as every other type of life on this planet. We still don't know the exact process of how multicellular life, sexual reproduction etc. evolved but this is exactly why we have very intelligent scientists investigating these things as we speak.
For now, I'm going to ignore the second part because that's a non-question that I already addressed.

Here's a question for you: If all modern life doesn't have its roots in one universal common ancestor, why is it all genetically related, including us? And if we aren't the most closely related to the other great apes, why do we share ~99% of our DNA with them compared to ~50% of our DNA with a banana? The signs are pretty obviously pointing to a common ancestor, unless God very recently created all life at the same time, which I won't even delve into why that's ridiculous.

The burden of proof is back on your side.
Except it's not, because half of it is a non-question and the other half is not a hard pressing issue.

So what created us ? quantum fluctuations ?
As I said earlier, no. Random mutations over billions of years eventually culminated into me and you; huge cities of trillions of cells working together as one unit.


I almost think this is a troll, because your response is totally ridiculous and some of the things you say seem like attempts to anger me. If it's not, you really don't have much an idea at all of what you're talking about.
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Anonymous #2
#50
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I'm not going to debate this anymore because I think it's a waste of time.

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Again, who or what created god? Mocking quantum fluctuations because 'we don't know what caused them' is very hypocritical from a god-supporting position.


LMFAO!!! This is what we call an Argument from Personal Incredulity.

What do you mean, surviving extremely hot temperatures? Life evolved 3.9 billion years ago, AFTER the Earth became cool enough to support water on its surface.

'and coming from nothing but quantum fluctuations' You're conflating my argument about the origin of the big bang with the origin of life, somehow. No, it didn't start from quantum fluctuations, it started from the first molecules of RNA. Over time this self-replicating molecule evolved things such as a protective capsule and eventually became what we would now consider a bacterial cell.

'How would a single-celled organism decide all of the genetic information for every species ever made ?' Pointless question, it didn't decide anything. New genetic code, mutations evolved over time by pure chance. When you replicate a molecule billions of times a day, random changes start to occur quite often.

'Why does a cell decide it wants to or needs to 'mutate' into something else and evolve over time ?' Did you ever go to school? It doesn't decide anything, mutations occur at random and the good ones that give the organism some sort of advantage stick around. Come on, you literally learn this in school. You can't be this incredulous.

'Of course, it needs some sort of genetic code to mutate at some point in time.' Yes, and the basis of that would be the first ever molecule of RNA on Earth that under the intensely pressured conditions of the ocean bottom formed by chance roughly 3.9 billion years ago. Immediately after replication it would begin changing.

'The statement 'God doesn't exist' is not an explanation of how these single-celled organisms had the information to mutate in the first place' And I never said it was an explanation. Are you mentally challenged? Please tell me where I said this.


And as I said before, the lack of evidence supporting a god and/or divine intervention is what leads me to doubt his existence.


You say this, but you just said that the lack of evidence supporting the existence of god isn't a good enough reason to doubt his existence. That is frankly idiotic logic.



Please don't tell me I made this up.


Except it's not, because there's no good reason to believe that he does. Reason being that there's no evidence AND everything we know about the universe has a natural explanation and doesn't need goddidit.


...Are you serious? I said myself that I am agnostic. I never said that he definitely doesn't, because I can't actually disprove that a deity of some kind exists. I just think that we have sufficient knowledge to conclude for sure that they didn't intervene in any natural processes because there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case.


Because it makes sense and we have a lot of evidence to suggest that all life has a common ancestor and the process of adaptation which in the long run leads to evolution is well-understood. As opposed to that, an invisible god that nobody has ever seen or known that supposedly created us sounds more like a fairy-tale than an explanation.


And? It's not concerned with how life emerged, it's concerned with how life adapts to new environments and changes over time. You're conflating evolution and abiogenesis.


Is this a joke? I said, 'modern NON-HUMAN APES', you total spastic.


Because it wasn't beneficial to them. They stayed in an environment that favours their current lifestyles. Our ancestors on the other hand stayed in an environment that favoured intelligence.


Through progressive mutations over billions of years that eventually resulted in multiple cells working as one unit, each with different jobs, and even further down the line they became entire animals with millions of each type of cell. 2.9 billion years is an extremely long amount of time and allows for an uncountable number of mutations to occur that eventually result in modern animals as well as every other type of life on this planet. We still don't know the exact process of how multicellular life, sexual reproduction etc. evolved but this is exactly why we have very intelligent scientists investigating these things as we speak.
For now, I'm going to ignore the second part because that's a non-question that I already addressed.

Here's a question for you: If all modern life doesn't have its roots in one universal common ancestor, why is it all genetically related, including us? And if we aren't the most closely related to the other great apes, why do we share ~99% of our DNA with them compared to ~50% of our DNA with a banana? The signs are pretty obviously pointing to a common ancestor, unless God very recently created all life at the same time, which I won't even delve into why that's ridiculous.


Except it's not, because half of it is a non-question and the other half is not a hard pressing issue.


As I said earlier, no. Random mutations over billions of years eventually culminated into me and you; huge cities of trillions of cells working together as one unit.


I almost think this is a troll, because your response is totally ridiculous and some of the things you say seem like attempts to anger me. If it's not, you really don't have much an idea at all of what you're talking about.
can't be arsed to reply lol get a life
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Anonymous #2
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#51
Calling people spastics and mentally challenged , take a look at yourself

why do you deserve a reply after that ?
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Cryoraptor
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Anonymous)
I'm not going to debate this anymore because I think it's a waste of time.


can't be arsed to reply lol get a life
(Original post by Anonymous)
Calling people spastics and mentally challenged , take a look at yourself

why do you deserve a reply after that ?
Ok, definite troll, wish I didn't waste my time writing that out now.
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Anonymous #2
#53
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Ok, definite troll, wish I didn't waste my time writing that out now.
'definite troll' is your way of invalidating arguments and treating people you don't even know like s***

I encourage you to get help , honestly
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Cryoraptor
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(Original post by Anonymous)
'definite troll' is your way of invalidating arguments and treating people you don't even know like s***

I encourage you to get help , honestly
Are you okay in the head? I wrote you a reply that by your own admission didn't bother replying to. That to me is trollish behaviour and you just don't have a good comeback to my arguments.

You need to come off the internet and figure out what's wrong with your life. This isn't normal behaviour.
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Are you okay in the head? I wrote you a reply that by your own admission didn't bother replying to.

You need to come off the internet and figure out what's wrong with your life. This isn't normal behaviour.
I didn't bother replying to someone that called me mentally retarded and spastic when I didn't want to have a debate in the first place. I'm like what's the point, you write a ton of words and ignore everything I say, misinterpret everything I say and say what's wrong with my life.

Why debate someone with no heart
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Cryoraptor
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I didn't bother replying to someone that called me mentally retarded and spastic when I didn't want to have a debate in the first place. I'm like what's the point, you write a ton of words and ignore everything I say, misinterpret everything I say and say what's wrong with my life.

Why debate someone with no heart
Nice victim complex you have there, never called you mentally retarded.

I'm on the autism spectrum and have ADHD myself so trying to lecture me about calling people spastics is quite idiotic and pointless.

I'm pretty sure at this point that you're just trolling, but in the unlikelihood that you aren't, you are ****ing nuts mate.
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Spanx
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(Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
I have a horrible feeling that a lot of people are wasting a huge amount of their lives worrying about this, when the most likely thing that happens after death is .. nothing.

Religion was made in a time where we had no better ways to understand what happened in the world. Now, we do, yet for some reason the craziness that is organised religion still holds strong.
You'd better say 10 hail marys and 5 our fathers!!! Or you're going straight to hell!
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Nice victim complex you have there, never called you mentally retarded.

I'm on the autism spectrum and have ADHD myself so trying to lecture me about calling people spastics is quite idiotic and pointless.

I'm pretty sure at this point that you're just trolling, but in the unlikelihood that you aren't, you are ****ing nuts mate.
I'm 'f**king nuts', 'are you mentally retarded?', I am 'spastic' , if it's idiotic and pointless to tell you how there's someone on the receiving end of what you say then why is it meaningful for anyone to have a conversation with someone like you
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Cryoraptor
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I'm 'f**king nuts', 'are you mentally retarded?', I am 'spastic' , if it's idiotic and pointless to tell you how there's someone on the receiving end of what you say then why is it meaningful for anyone to have a conversation with someone like you
It's the internet, get over it. You're acting like I randomly shout 'RETARD' to people. No, you made a dumbass reply to me. Get over yourself, stop playing the victim and give me a proper refutation.
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
It's the internet, get over it. You're acting like I randomly shout 'RETARD' to people. No, you made a dumbass reply to me. Get over yourself, stop playing the victim and give me a proper refutation.
I told you why I'm not going to do that , it's pointless trying to depict word for word the digital definition of an elongated strawman with someone avoid of emotion

cheerio
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