The Government is a disgrace

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Cryoraptor
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#41
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And as I believe it can also be spread from animal to human
Correct, it most likely evolved in a pangolin that was consumed by Patient Zero in Wuhan, and human to animal transmission has been confirmed. It is a highly zoonotic virus.
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Napp
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(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Correct, it most likely evolved in a pangolin that was consumed by Patient Zero in Wuhan, and human to animal transmission has been confirmed. It is a highly zoonotic virus.
I heard it most likely spread from a pangolin to a bat before being nibbled on? Or possibly bat to pangolin (i forget the exact order)
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nexttime
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(Original post by AnonymousNoMore)
And as I believe it can also be spread from animal to human, what about the meat market?
As in, you're saying it might be spreading among domesticated non-human animals? And moreover, in a form that has high human to human contagiousness?

No evidence of that so far, and it would be highly unlikely to ever happen. A virus having a zoonotic origin does not mean it can easily spread between different species over and over again. To spread among a new species is a highly specific and highly highly rare event.

That's actually a reason for why its called covid19. They could have named it after its species of origin (which we could have a pretty educated guess at based on its genetics), but that leads people to do stupid things like cull animals of that species. During swine flu millions of pigs were culled, even though the flu we were worried about was a specific mutated flu that could transmit human to human, and culling pigs with normal swine flu would achieve nothing!

(Original post by Cryoraptor)
Correct, it most likely evolved in a pangolin that was consumed by Patient Zero in Wuhan, and human to animal transmission has been confirmed. It is a highly zoonotic virus.
(Original post by Napp)
I heard it most likely spread from a pangolin to a bat before being nibbled on? Or possibly bat to pangolin (i forget the exact order)
As above.
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AnonymousNoMore
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(Original post by nexttime)
As in, you're saying it might be spreading among domesticated non-human animals? And moreover, in a form that has high human to human contagiousness?

No evidence of that so far, and it would be highly unlikely to ever happen. A virus having a zoonotic origin does not mean it can easily spread between different species over and over again. To spread among a new species is a highly specific and highly highly rare event.

That's actually a reason for why its called covid19. They could have named it after its species of origin (which we could have a pretty educated guess at based on its genetics), but that leads people to do stupid things like cull animals of that species. During swine flu millions of pigs were culled, even though the flu we were worried about was a specific mutated flu that could transmit human to human, and culling pigs with normal swine flu would achieve nothing!




As above.
Ok
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Napp
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(Original post by nexttime)
As in, you're saying it might be spreading among domesticated non-human animals? And moreover, in a form that has high human to human contagiousness?

No evidence of that so far, and it would be highly unlikely to ever happen. A virus having a zoonotic origin does not mean it can easily spread between different species over and over again. To spread among a new species is a highly specific and highly highly rare event.

That's actually a reason for why its called covid19. They could have named it after its species of origin (which we could have a pretty educated guess at based on its genetics), but that leads people to do stupid things like cull animals of that species. During swine flu millions of pigs were culled, even though the flu we were worried about was a specific mutated flu that could transmit human to human, and culling pigs with normal swine flu would achieve nothing!




As above.
I dont disagree with what you're saying as it were i'm merely stating the viruses origins according to its genetic sequencing (i believe thats the method?) at any rate not being an epidemiologist i'm simply stating what i read in The Economist )
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TheStupidMoon
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(Original post by Napp)
Because;
a) you can't control everyone who enters and exists a country - let alone test every single person that you do know about.
B) As for quarantining every single person who comes into the country? Lol. I don't think so. Do you have any idea how many people enter the country each day?

uhuh?
You could seal off the entire country and the UK would be easier to do that as it's an island.

(Original post by Napp)
Tell that to the boat people.
Sure, we can send the message with naval cannons.
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Napp
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(Original post by TheStupidMoon)
You could seal off the entire country and the UK would be easier to do that as it's an island.
You could try it, it wouldnt work. What makes an island easy to defend against an army makes it impossible to defend against little boats of people coming over. Several thousand miles of coastline is indefensible. Especially do disease, as most of our history dictates.

Sure, we can send the message with naval cannons.
Would seem somewhat over kill but que sera sera
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Treetop321
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According to the Sun, a newborn baby has tested positive for coronavirus.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/111706...ungest-victim/
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Quady
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I assume everyone on this thread who is irrate with HMG is taking personal responsibility and self isolating?
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nexttime
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(Original post by Quady)
I assume everyone on this thread who is irrate with HMG is taking personal responsibility and self isolating?
How do you do that if you're employed or in school and they expect you to turn up?
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Quady
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(Original post by nexttime)
How do you do that if you're employed or in school and they expect you to turn up?
Can take either paid or unpaid leave, sick leave under the new advice, quit.

Greta went on school strike for climate, dont see who would be coming knocking if people went on school strike for Corona.
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nexttime
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(Original post by Quady)
Can take either paid or unpaid leave, sick leave under the new advice, quit.

Greta went on school strike for climate, dont see who would be coming knocking if people went on school strike for Corona.
Many people need to give adequate notice for paid leave. For the NHS's 1.5 million employees, even any leave already booked is likely to be actively cancelled under emergency provision rules, potentially also the case in other key industries.

You need to be sick to take sick leave. You could lie I suppose, but clearly unprofessional and liable to be fired if found out.

Many people can't just take unpaid leave - various studies find that 30-50% of the UK lives paycheck to paycheck. In many jobs just taking unjustified unpaid leave will get you fired (or thrown off of a course). And businesses are looking to cut costs, lets not pretend they won't do it.

They won't "come knocking" no. But you might lose earnings you cannot afford to lose, or your entire livelihood, be unable to pay bills or feed yourself or your family. Pretty major consequences...
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Quady
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(Original post by nexttime)
Many people need to give adequate notice for paid leave. For the NHS's 1.5 million employees, even any leave already booked is likely to be actively cancelled under emergency provision rules, potentially also the case in other key industries.

You need to be sick to take sick leave. You could lie I suppose, but clearly unprofessional and liable to be fired if found out.

Many people can't just take unpaid leave - various studies find that 30-50% of the UK lives paycheck to paycheck. In many jobs just taking unjustified unpaid leave will get you fired (or thrown off of a course). And businesses are looking to cut costs, lets not pretend they won't do it.

They won't "come knocking" no. But you might lose earnings you cannot afford to lose, or your entire livelihood, be unable to pay bills or feed yourself or your family. Pretty major consequences...
People who think HMG is acting irresponsibly but wont take personal responsibility are a disgrace.

You are offering excuses, just as those defending HMG provide excuses. But its hypocritical for people here to simultaneously say the government is a disgrace if they are not self isolating. That is an action they can take themselves irrespective of what HMG does/doesn't do.
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nexttime
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(Original post by Quady)
People who think HMG is acting irresponsibly but wont take personal responsibility are a disgrace.

You are offering excuses, just as those defending HMG provide excuses. But its hypocritical for people here to simultaneously say the government is a disgrace if they are not self isolating. That is an action they can take themselves irrespective of what HMG does/doesn't do.
Ok, so you are just going to literally ignore everything I said? Why did you bother to respond then?

If the government gives people the grounds to leave their jobs and self-isolate, they will (hopefully). Until then, many can't.
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Quady
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(Original post by nexttime)
Many people need to give adequate notice for paid leave. For the NHS's 1.5 million employees, even any leave already booked is likely to be actively cancelled under emergency provision rules, potentially also the case in other key industries.

You need to be sick to take sick leave. You could lie I suppose, but clearly unprofessional and liable to be fired if found out.

Many people can't just take unpaid leave - various studies find that 30-50% of the UK lives paycheck to paycheck. In many jobs just taking unjustified unpaid leave will get you fired (or thrown off of a course). And businesses are looking to cut costs, lets not pretend they won't do it.

They won't "come knocking" no. But you might lose earnings you cannot afford to lose, or your entire livelihood, be unable to pay bills or feed yourself or your family. Pretty major consequences...
Well you ignored my point.... but to go through yours.

Yes, which is why I said unpaid leave or to quit are also options.

It only takes a cough at the minute to mean you should be off sick anyway (assuming you cant WFH). The bar is far lower than usual.

Indeed, more disgraceful behaviour. People are supposed to have six months take home pay saved for these kinds of things. Otherwise, contribution based JSA is avaliable.

Major consequences to deal with a major situation - or at least I assume folk saying the HMG approach is a disgrace think this is a major situation with major consequences.
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nexttime
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(Original post by Quady)
Well you ignored my point.... but to go through yours.

Yes, which is why I said unpaid leave or to quit are also options.

It only takes a cough at the minute to mean you should be off sick anyway (assuming you cant WFH). The bar is far lower than usual.

Indeed, more disgraceful behaviour. People are supposed to have six months take home pay saved for these kinds of things. Otherwise, contribution based JSA is avaliable.

Major consequences to deal with a major situation - or at least I assume folk saying the HMG approach is a disgrace think this is a major situation with major consequences.
I don't think I've ignored anything? I've responded saying why it isn't practical to unilaterally remove yourself from employment or education without the green light from either the employer or government.

It takes a "new, continuous cough". I agree it is easy to be dishonest, but its only supposed to be for a week anyway.

You can argue that everyone should be more wealthy if you want. Back in the real world, they aren't though. And this is about what to do here now back in reality.

I wonder how JSA would work during covid. Can you argue you are actively seeking a job if you're not leaving home? Don't people on JSA get sent to interviews and appointments as conditions on receiving money etc? So again, we're waiting on government to say its ok to receive it from home...

For most people there aren't major personal consequences though. As long as they stay away from granny, the consequences to a work age individual of them going to work is minimal. Its the collective where is becomes important. And who has the authority to make it possible for us to/make it mandatory for us all* to collectively stay at home? Begins with a G...

**except the millions of key staff who would still be required to turn up for work even under a lockdown, but I guess we're just ignoring that
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not_XIX_forever
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Should I be going to work (Tescos)?
So scared ngl
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nexttime
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(Original post by not_XIX_forever)
Should I be going to work (Tescos)?
So scared ngl
Yes - at this time you are one of our most important people in society, who would actually keep working even in a full lockdown!
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not_XIX_forever
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(Original post by nexttime)
Yes - at this time you are one of our most important people in society, who would actually keep working even in a full lockdown!
I work in an express, and so work closely with customers.
All I can think about is the closeness at the tills, scanning items that have been touched, exchanging money...
It’s freaking me out!!

I tried to find a sanitiser gel so that I could sterilise my hands between swathes of customers, but everywhere was out of stock.
How do you think I can best protect myself at work?

I’ve seen the advice of not touching your eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands. The only time I get to wash my hands is on my break.

Should I be worried?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by not_XIX_forever)
I work in an express, and so work closely with customers.
All I can think about is the closeness at the tills, scanning items that have been touched, exchanging money...
It’s freaking me out!!

I tried to find a sanitiser gel so that I could sterilise my hands between swathes of customers, but everywhere was out of stock.
How do you think I can best protect myself at work?

I’ve seen the advice of not touching your eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands. The only time I get to wash my hands is on my break.

Should I be worried?
If you're young, the biggest risk is that you will get sick for a while, but the chance of you dying or getting complications is low, unless you have a preexisting condition like diabetes or a heart condition.

Other than that, just wash your hands when you can. I wouldn't worry too much about yourself if you satisfy the criteria above (young, no prior conditions) but you should try to steer clear of elderly people and people you know to have bad health.
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