Women footballers demand equal pay and news coverage to men

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Occitanie
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#21
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I assure female football players that as the popularity and level of woman’s football increases, so will their pay. There is nothing to suggest the contrary.
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Mustafa0605
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If they want more money they should try to match ticket prices of men’s game and then they should learn a lesson when they see their stadium empty
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generallee
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#23
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SHallowvale

The US women's soccer federation is currently engaged in a high profile lawsuit against US soccer arguing that the differential in pay between men and women in the game is unlawful under equal pay legislation. In responding to the claim, US soccer claims that women are less skilful.

You want a source? Fill your boots. These are the documents...

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...Arguments.html
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generallee
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(Original post by Drewski)
Dragging up a 4 year old story to do that with is a pretty **** move though, so if you're trying to win people over to your side you're failing.

Of course, if you just want people to think you're a ****, then crack on.
I think you may be confusing me with someone who gives a monkey's cuss what you think about this matter, or indeed any other?
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Drewski
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(Original post by generallee)
SHallowvale

The US women's soccer federation is currently engaged in a high profile lawsuit against US soccer arguing that the differential in pay between men and women in the game is unlawful under equal pay legislation. In responding to the claim, US soccer claims that women are less skilful.

You want a source? Fill your boots. These are the documents...

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...Arguments.html
Those women have a claim though.
They have higher attendances than their men's team, win an awful lot more than their men's team, sell more than their men's team, and are a greater marketing proposition than their men's team.

And they're still paid a fraction of the men's salaries.

All the other arguments raised here are valid for most other women's team. The US women's team are the exception to that rule.
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generallee
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#26
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SHallowvale

I can foresee that (rather than addressing the substantive point) you will respond to my earlier post by saying "you earlier post was about AUSTRALIAN women's soccer. You cited a source from America. That doesn't count!"

So here's a source from Australia because I know you like them...

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/11/f...pay/index.html

The next thing you will say is "oh, that is an old source. It wasn't written yesterday. That doesn't count!"

So I will update you on the situation to say that the Australian women footballers agreed an equal pay deal in the period between now and that article...
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generallee
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(Original post by Drewski)
Those women have a claim though.
They have higher attendances than their men's team, win an awful lot more than their men's team, sell more than their men's team, and are a greater marketing proposition than their men's team.

And they're still paid a fraction of the men's salaries.

All the other arguments raised here are valid for most other women's team. The US women's team are the exception to that rule.
The US women's team also get thrashed by a bunch of teenage boys.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...U-15-boys.html

Admittedly it wasn't seven nil, but then they are world champions! Just of women, not boys, let alone men...

Women are completely [email protected] at football, there's the beginning and end of it...
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the beer
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:yawn:
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Drewski
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(Original post by generallee)
The US women's team also get thrashed by a bunch of teenage boys.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...U-15-boys.html

Admittedly it wasn't seven nil, but then they are world champions! Just of women, not boys, let alone men...

Women are completely [email protected] at football, there's the beginning and end of it...
Why sensor the word crap? :confused:
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AnonymousNoMore
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(Original post by generallee)
The US women's team also get thrashed by a bunch of teenage boys.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...U-15-boys.html

Admittedly it wasn't seven nil, but then they are world champions! Just of women, not boys, let alone men...

Women are completely [email protected] at football, there's the beginning and end of it...
The amount they get paid shouldn't depend on skill, it should depend on audience and how much they bring in. Skill doesn't even come into it. As a general case anyway, obviously individual people have individual contracts.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by generallee)
SHallowvale

The US women's soccer federation is currently engaged in a high profile lawsuit against US soccer arguing that the differential in pay between men and women in the game is unlawful under equal pay legislation. In responding to the claim, US soccer claims that women are less skilful.

You want a source? Fill your boots. These are the documents...

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...Arguments.html
(Original post by generallee)
SHallowvale

I can foresee that (rather than addressing the substantive point) you will respond to my earlier post by saying "you earlier post was about AUSTRALIAN women's soccer. You cited a source from America. That doesn't count!"

So here's a source from Australia because I know you like them...

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/11/f...pay/index.html

The next thing you will say is "oh, that is an old source. It wasn't written yesterday. That doesn't count!"

So I will update you on the situation to say that the Australian women footballers agreed an equal pay deal in the period between now and that article...
Thank you.

Nothing in the second article mentions anyone wanting equal news coverage. There is also no mention of wanting equal pay to men, rather that they simply wanted greater pay and better employment benefits; the former is actually understandable since, at the time, they were paid far below the Australian minimum wage.

Why have you said they "demand" equal pay and equal news coverage in the title?
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Drewski)
Those women have a claim though.
They have higher attendances than their men's team, win an awful lot more than their men's team, sell more than their men's team, and are a greater marketing proposition than their men's team.

And they're still paid a fraction of the men's salaries.


All the other arguments raised here are valid for most other women's team. The US women's team are the exception to that rule.
Do you have any sources to back that up?
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generallee
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
Thank you.

Nothing in the second article mentions anyone wanting equal news coverage. There is also no mention of wanting equal pay to men, rather that they simply wanted greater pay and better employment benefits; the former is actually understandable since, at the time, they were paid far below the Australian minimum wage.

Why have you said they "demand" equal pay and equal news coverage in the title?
I am sorry but I am not going to continue our discussion on this matter, beyond this post.

If you genuinely want to find out about the nuances of this subject, please research it yourself, don't expect me to do the spade work for you. And life is too short to argue the toss with you about how each individual phrase in my OP can be parsed.

I have provided several links to support my original premise, that there is a worldwide campaign to "close the gender pay gap" in women's football. This has been reasonably successful in Australia, as it happens, and is the subject of a legal case in the US.

Why did I say there is a demand for equal media coverage? Because I have seen or read numerous interviews with women footballers bemoaning their (perceived) lack of coverage. They stood out for me because I thought it is pretty rich to say this since they already get far too much coverage, much more than say Championship footballers, who entertain far larger crowds. But I can't remember the exact instances, and I certainly can't be @rsed to look them up for your pedantic benefit.
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generallee
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(Original post by Drewski)
Why sensor the word crap? :confused:
I wasn't censoring it, but attempting to get it through the swear filter. Something I do routinely because I don't like this website itself censoring for squeamish reasons, what I want to write.

Turns out you don't need to. Great.
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Drewski
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(Original post by generallee)
I wasn't censoring it, but attempting to get it through the swear filter. Something I do routinely because I don't like this website itself censoring for squeamish reasons, what I want to write.

Turns out you don't need to. Great.
In fairness, the swear filter is in place for decent reasons, but whatever floats your boat.
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periodt
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(Original post by generallee)

Women are completely [email protected] at football, there's the beginning and end of it...
Someone sounds extremely insecure with themselves. Did you get beaten in a match by a female recently or something? 🥰
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generallee
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(Original post by AnonymousNoMore)
The amount they get paid shouldn't depend on skill, it should depend on audience and how much they bring in. Skill doesn't even come into it. As a general case anyway, obviously individual people have individual contracts.
Here is the nub of my argument.

You are arguing an is, I an ought. On moral grounds.

Do you not think that the more skilled a person is, in a particular field, the higher they should be paid? Is that not just and equitable?

If the US national woman's team get mullered by some 15 year old boys, they would get annihilated by the US national men's team (who are actually pretty good). It would be a massacre. Twenty nil, twenty five nil. They would hardly touch the ball, it would be chasing shadows and picking the ball out their net time after time after time.

On what moral ground is that deserving of equal pay?
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AnonymousNoMore
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(Original post by generallee)
Here is the nub of my argument.

You are arguing an is, I an ought. On moral grounds.

Do you not think that the more skilled a person is, in a particular field, the higher they should be paid? Is that not just and equitable?

If the US national woman's team get mullered by some 15 year old boys, they would get annihilated by the US national men's team (who are actually pretty good). It would be a massacre. Twenty nil, twenty five nil. They would hardly touch the ball, it would be chasing shadows and picking the ball out their net time after time after time.

On what moral ground is that deserving of equal pay?
But we can't judge the skill of both genders because there is an unequal amount of funding in grassroot football.
And even on a moral ground, doesn't matter because we live in a capitalist society and so the most money brought in = most paid.
Like comedians, you may think that one is less skilled but they may get paid more because they bring in bigger audiences.
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Igotbbcalevel
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women should get paid what they deserve
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by generallee)
I am sorry but I am not going to continue our discussion on this matter, beyond this post.

If you genuinely want to find out about the nuances of this subject, please research it yourself, don't expect me to do the spade work for you. And life is too short to argue the toss with you about how each individual phrase in my OP can be parsed.

I have provided several links to support my original premise, that there is a worldwide campaign to "close the gender pay gap" in women's football. This has been reasonably successful in Australia, as it happens, and is the subject of a legal case in the US.

Why did I say there is a demand for equal media coverage? Because I have seen or read numerous interviews with women footballers bemoaning their (perceived) lack of coverage. They stood out for me because I thought it is pretty rich to say this since they already get far too much coverage, much more than say Championship footballers, who entertain far larger crowds. But I can't remember the exact instances, and I certainly can't be @rsed to look them up for your pedantic benefit.
Your original premise was that women footballers are demanding equal pay and news coverage in Australia. The articles you've provided don't support that, so... 🤷*♀️

(Original post by generallee)
Here is the nub of my argument.

You are arguing an is, I an ought. On moral grounds.

Do you not think that the more skilled a person is, in a particular field, the higher they should be paid? Is that not just and equitable?

If the US national woman's team get mullered by some 15 year old boys, they would get annihilated by the US national men's team (who are actually pretty good). It would be a massacre. Twenty nil, twenty five nil. They would hardly touch the ball, it would be chasing shadows and picking the ball out their net time after time after time.

On what moral ground is that deserving of equal pay?
In an ideal world? Sure.

In the real world? No, unless you want to massively change the way in which the economy is run.

People are paid by what they sell, not how their skill compares to others. Person A could be a better painter than Person B, but if Person B has more clients and/or has wealthier clients then Person B will make more money, even if they aren't as good a painter as Person A.

You could say the same thing about musicians. Suppose a company sells the music of Person A and Person B, of whom Person A is objectively a better musician. If simply more people buy music from Person B then Person B will make more money, even if they aren't as good a musician and even if their music isn't as good as Person A's.

Exceptions to this involve things like competitions, where skill is clearly important as it affects who gets the prize money. That prize money, however, will again be affected by audience and not by 'skill' itself.
Last edited by SHallowvale; 4 weeks ago
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