Why is the UK the only country not closing schools?

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ByEeek
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#61
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#61
(Original post by sendnukes)
But herd immunity basically means all elderly and young people with complications basically don't make it. Boris said 'we will lose our loved ones' I guess he really meant it huh.
No point in denying the inevitable. Yes. People will die. But we can limit this by spreading those infected so that the NHS doesn't become overwhelmed like the Italian health service is right now.
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hotchocolate66
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#62
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(Original post by slazman)
The thing I look at at the moment is that the one group of people who don't seem to be criticising the government's response is actual scientists and epidemiologists.

Of course opposition politicians such as the shadow health secretary will do so - if the plan backfires fir the government then they can play the 'I told you so' card and improve the party image at the expense of the government. Take things coming from the Labor party with a pinch of salt is what I'd say.

A great number of the general public are doing the same of course, but this is largely fueled by the media hysteria around the virus creating panic. These peoples opinions are based on hearsay and articles they've seen or been told about - it all tends to get convoluted pretty quickly and it's hard to sort fact from fiction.

The people who have studied for years and are qualified to try and model the mechanics of the outbreak are the ones we should listen to, and as if yet there doesnt seem to be an awful lot of criticism from that direction. This would indicate to me that the Governments approach is valid - not necessarily fool proof or perfect or better than the alternatives, but not mindless nonsense concocted by a bunch of corrupt, brainless, money grabbing buffoons as some people here seen to think.
Agreed
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dpm
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Nope I mean ineffective, thanks for trying to tell me what I think, kindly do one.
Oh, ok.
In that case you are simply wrong.
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999tigger
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#64
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#64
(Original post by dpm)
Oh, ok.
In that case you are simply wrong.
Based on?
Will you be closing schools for a year?
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Greywolftwo
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(Original post by dpm)
you have looked in the wrong places.

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2...e-spanish.html
What our government is saying. It’s different for other countries because countries won’t be at the same stage of the epidemic.
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nexttime
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#66
We're the control arm.
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dpm
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#67
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(Original post by Greywolftwo)
What our government is saying. It’s different for other countries because countries won’t be at the same stage of the epidemic.
if you read the research re. proactive v reactive the findings are fairly clear..
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Sammylou40
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(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
Sounds about right, except I don't know what herd immunity is


Yea what's herd immunity lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
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dpm
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Based on?
Will you be closing schools for a year?
Based on :the vast amount of research on the 1918 pandemic.
Will you be closing schools for a year?: I am struggling to follow your logic here .. I simply pointed out that your comment re. the closing of schools being ineffective is factually wrong.
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slazman
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(Original post by dpm)
Based on :the vast amount of research on the 1918 pandemic.
Will you be closing schools for a year?: I am struggling to follow your logic here .. I simply pointed out that your comment re. the closing of schools being ineffective is factually wrong.
The thing is though, the Spanish flu is quite different to COVID 19, For one thing, from the admittedly limited research I have conducted around the matter, Spanish flu had a habit of disproportionately affecting young, healthy people in comparison to other flu pandemics - this is the exact opposite of coronavirus. Nobody has any immunity to this disease, which means that those with the most naturally resilient immune systems (i.e children, young adults etc.) are the ones who will largely be able to fight off the virus more quickly and with the least complications.

Of course there are other aspects to school closures which have impacts on reducing the spread, and your point may well still be valid and important. All I'm saying is stop comparing apples to oranges, this Cornonaviris is not influenza and the measures which are best for one might not necessarily be so for the other.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by dpm)
Based on :the vast amount of research on the 1918 pandemic.
Will you be closing schools for a year?: I am struggling to follow your logic here .. I simply pointed out that your comment re. the closing of schools being ineffective is factually wrong.
I am sure that factually you are correct. But there is a bigger picture. The impact of closing schools on ourvsociety at large would be detrimental and the reasonable question to ask is for how long? And when we reopen, can you be sure the virus won't just pop up again?

I feel the currentvresponse is bob on. I can't help but feel some European governments are doing stuff to be seen to be doing stuff. Same with the US. They are really screwed with Trump at the helm.
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dpm
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I am sure that factually you are correct. But there is a bigger picture. The impact of closing schools on ourvsociety at large would be detrimental and the reasonable question to ask is for how long? And when we reopen, can you be sure the virus won't just pop up again?

I feel the currentvresponse is bob on. I can't help but feel some European governments are doing stuff to be seen to be doing stuff. Same with the US. They are really screwed with Trump at the helm.
If I am going to believe anyone at this current moment then I will side with the WHO - they clearly don't see the UK's response as "Bob on". Furthermore, it would now seem that the Government no longer see's its response as "Bob on" and have decided yo U-turn on parts of the plan.
Closing the school's does not have to be detrimental to society - unless of course you only have a one dimensional vision of what options are available - and if that is the case, then such people have no place in decision making. Closing schools does not have to mean that education grinds to a halt.
This nonsense about key workers not being able to do their jobs because they have to look after their kids is just nonsensical. The majority of secondary school kids are more than capable of seeing themselves through the day. Younger children need care, fine, keep schools open for the children of key workers - what history has shown is that a proactive approach to closing, or at least de-populating schools is advantageous.
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nexttime
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(Original post by dpm)
This nonsense about key workers not being able to do their jobs because they have to look after their kids is just nonsensical. The majority of secondary school kids are more than capable of seeing themselves through the day.
Hmm, debatable. There are some pretty awfully behaved kids out there, who would be willing to leave the house, invited their friends over etc. It won't just be one day, remember - it'll be weeks on end.

Its also the fact that so many senior frontline healthcare staff fall into this group. Having children aged 1-14 is the exact situation faced by a huge proportion of experienced band 5 ward nurses, senior sisters and ward managers, registrar doctors and younger consultant doctors. Those are basically the groups you really want there in a crisis, basically - much more useful than younger but also older staff.

You'd have groups like grandparents to help, but problems are 1) unlikely to be able to help for long periods - many will still be working themselves 2) NHS forces its staff to move cities a lot so a lot of doctors in particular live nowhere near their childhood homes.

My experience is admittedly going to be on the extreme end, but in my group of 20 healthcare staff I work with, 18 have children aged 6 months - 8 years-ish. At a guess, maybe 5 have wives who don't work who take care of childcare. The rest just don't know what will happen.

I honestly think you'd be looking at losing about 20% of staff, something like that.

Younger children need care, fine, keep schools open for the children of key workers - what history has shown is that a proactive approach to closing, or at least de-populating schools is advantageous.
That suggestion has not formed part of any plan I am aware of. Wouldn't seem very economical.

Such a group would be higher risk of exposure to coronavirus than a 'normal' nursery population, of course.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by dpm)
This nonsense about key workers not being able to do their jobs because they have to look after their kids is just nonsensical. The majority of secondary school kids are more than capable of seeing themselves through the day. Younger children need care, fine, keep schools open for the children of key workers - what history has shown is that a proactive approach to closing, or at least de-populating schools is advantageous.
Just for context, there are 80,000 primary aged kids in schools in Manchester. That is not Greater Manchester. Just Manchester. And you say it would have no impact?

So if you are happy to keep primary schools open, what advantage is there in closing secondary schools?

As for history, just exactly how can we learn from history given that this is a new virus impacting on a modern globalised world?
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ByEeek
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#75
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(Original post by dpm)
Based on :the vast amount of research on the 1918 pandemic.
This isn't 1918. And it is a completely different virus.
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Bang Outta Order
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#76
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Everyone shut up. None of us know the truth nor a solution.


I read several tsr posts in the voice of those fish in bikini bottom ordering krabby patties....
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satsun
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#77
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This number of positive Coronavirus patients in the UK is now 1140, that’s up 342 - a massive number.
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David Getling
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#78
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
They have their rationale for it - but why is the UK the only country that seems to be following this approach? I wouldn't question it if other countries were following it but it seems odd that we aren't closing schools.

In my view - and I'm not a scientist - close schools, close borders, shut down all air travel. Seems common sense should prevail here
Have you thought out the consequences of closing schools? For younger kids their parents will then have to take time off work to look after them. What is the knock on effect of this likely to be? How many are providing essential services? Can they afford not to work, and if the government has to pay them then where is all the money going to come from?

What people tend to forget is that if you go headless chicken and wreck the economy then there won't be money available to finance health, social services, and many other essential services. So this might ultimately cause far more harm than coronavirus ever will.

Then, I think of all the students who have been working really hard towards their GCSEs and A-levels. I imagine that the most conscientious ones will be truly devastated if their lessons and exams are cancelled. And what about those students expecting to go to university in September. Should they be left in limbo?
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Anonymousamie
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#79
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(Original post by satsun)
This number of positive Coronavirus patients in the UK is now 1140, that’s up 342 - a massive number.
BRUH WHAT IS GOING ON, correct me if I’m wrong, but I swear Greece with 140ish cases have closed its schools, whereas we’re still out hear singing happy damn birthday when the UK has exceeded 1,000 cases.
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satsun
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#80
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Just in: Northern Ireland are planning to close schools, not yet but soon, and when they do they will be for a minimum of 16 weeks.
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