Which laptop would you pick?
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1: better processor, more ram, more storage what more do you want? 😂😂 btw is the site safe? looks dodgy, this is more than £1000 in Currys for this specific model.
(edited 4 years ago)
Laptop 2
On paper, laptop one looks better. More RAM, more storage, i7 instead of an i5, and it's cheaper. Obviously a bargain right? Wrong.
The laptop in the first link is a first generation Surface Laptop. The one from Argos is a third generation. All of a sudden, the pricing starts to make sense, you're paying for a much newer product from Argos. In terms of what this actually means:
•
The first gen Surface claims to have an i7, which makes it an i7 7660U. It claims to run at 4GHz, but it actually runs at 2.5GHz, with a 4GHz turbo. It's also only a dual core chip. The third gen Surface from Argos has an i5 1035G7, a quad core chip. It runs a little slower, but translates into anywhere from 20% to 80% more performance as a result of more cores and being a more modern chip.
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The first gen Surface has Windows 10 S installed, which is fine for some but limits what applications you can install (only Microsoft Store apps, you can only use Edge, etc.). You need to upgrade to regular Windows 10 to install any applications, which is apparently free now but I haven't verified that. The Argos Surface Laptop 3 just comes with regular Windows 10 installed out of the box
•
For port selection, the older Surface has a single USB A port, a mini DisplayPort and a headphone jack (plus the Surface connector for charging/docking). The newer model replaces the mini DisplayPort with the far more flexible USB C connector
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Older Surface devices are notorious for their poor battery life, whereas the newer models have certainly improved despite also rocking more powerful CPUs.
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Older Surface devices were basically impossible to repair, and while the Surface Laptop 3 isn't much better it is slightly better.
Based on just this alone, the Surface from Argos is the superior product. Sure, it comes with less RAM and storage, however the RAM is not really worth considering. In the event you're actually doing anything that requires more than 8GB of RAM, that dual core processor will quickly become a bottleneck. I'd much rather have the extra processing (that you can make use of in everyday tasks), vs the RAM that you almost certainly don't need (and probably can't make the most of on that dual core i7 anyway). The 128GB storage isn't ideal, but I wouldn't personally accept all the other tradeoffs just to get 512GB instead. Then of course we have the seller themselves. I've never heard of T Dimension and while I'm sure they're fine, the product listing is rather misleading. They don't tell you that you're getting a 3 year old product, they try to claim the i7 is a 4GHz chip (technically true, but not actually accurate) and in general random no name sites don't fill me with confidence. And I'd really struggle to justify spending £800+ on a 3 year old laptop with even older hardware. If my only choices were the two laptops listed, then the more modern and better performing Surface Laptop 3 from Argos is the obvious choice.
That said, I can think of better options. Microsoft are selling the exact same Surface Laptop 3 as Argos, directly from their website at the same price. However you can get student discount on it, bringing the price down to £800 instead of £900. Outside the premium Surface range, you can get a 14 inch Dell Inspiron with identical specs but 256GB of storage instead for £600 (not including student discount which brings prices down further). Saving £200 and getting more storage may be a worthwhile trade if it just means you don't get the premium product. If it were my money and I had exactly £900, I'd buy a cheaper laptop and save the £300+. £900 is just a little too low for a premium device, simply because I don't consider 128GB to be acceptable.
This is also a really good example of "if it looks too good to be true then it probably is". @Ja78975-Junaid mentions that laptop 1 has a better processor (presumably based on the idea that an i7 would be better than an i5), but when you dig into it, it becomes clear that the i5 in laptop 2 is superior (more modern, more cores, performs better). And when you start to look at the laptop in context, it becomes much harder to justify spending money on laptop 1.
Agreed! I'm not a computer expert 😂😂
There is no way on Earth that I would buy either of them. Not for myself. And not for anyone else: a company or a friend.
With the first one, you don't know what you are getting. i7 is too vague a description. i7 what?
With the second one, there appears to be a typo in the CPU description. What is an "i5 -1035G7"? Google that to and you'll be no wiser in knowing what it is.
Buying laptops blind, especially at this elevated price level would be absolutely crazy.
When spending anywhere near this sort of level, it should be absolutely clear exactly what you're getting.
With the first one, you don't know what you are getting. i7 is too vague a description. i7 what?
With the second one, there appears to be a typo in the CPU description. What is an "i5 -1035G7"? Google that to and you'll be no wiser in knowing what it is.
Buying laptops blind, especially at this elevated price level would be absolutely crazy.
When spending anywhere near this sort of level, it should be absolutely clear exactly what you're getting.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
With the first one, you don't know what you are getting. i7 is too vague a description. i7 what?
You're right that the CPU model absolutely should be listed on the product page. However they do tell you that it's a dual core i7, and given that only the first gen Surface laptops shipped with dual core i7 processors and the only i7 model was the i7 7660U, it is trivial to identify. The model number (DAL-00001) also tells you it's a 1st gen Surface laptop when Googled. If nothing else seeing dual core and i7 tells you it's an older 7th gen or earlier chip.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
With the second one, there appears to be a typo in the CPU description. What is an "i5 -1035G7"? Google that to and you'll be no wiser in knowing what it is.
The first result when Googling the i5 1035G7 is the Intel Ark page for that chip, which tells you everything you'd need to know. It's definitely not a typo, as the i5 1035G7 is one of the 10th gen chips. However Argos' website does list the core count, base frequency and turbo frequency which is more than I'd expect the average person to care about.
The Macbook Air 2018 is a fairly decent notebook.
` 1 due to the fact its near the same, better value and a better ram and has an i7 while the argos one has an i5.
To choose a 128gb SSD over a 512gb SSD is quite something since usually (regardless of laptop generation) the higher the SSD the better the performance of it too. I would say the factor that actually holds weight is the difference in CPU although that depends on what the user is demanding from the CPU anyway. The 7th gen i7 could definitely still cope with quite a lot. The issue of Windows 10 S is not big as it takes a few minutes to change but the difference a change might have on battery definitely is an issue. For example, install Chrome on the first gen laptop and oof...
Original post by The Serious
To choose a 128gb SSD over a 512gb SSD is quite something since usually (regardless of laptop generation) the higher the SSD the better the performance of it too. I would say the factor that actually holds weight is the difference in CPU although that depends on what the user is demanding from the CPU anyway. The 7th gen i7 could definitely still cope with quite a lot. The issue of Windows 10 S is not big as it takes a few minutes to change but the difference a change might have on battery definitely is an issue. For example, install Chrome on the first gen laptop and oof...
If all else were equal, then yes choosing a larger capacity SSD makes perfect sense. But all else is not equal, which is why I described a number of differences. It's not nearly as simple as just choosing the lower capacity SSD and that decision being "quite something".
In terms of performance, an SSD is an SSD. There may well be differences in performance (although there is nothing to indicate that) but the average person will neither notice nor care about them. A larger capacity is not immediately indicative of better performance, especially since most manufacturers will simply be using different capacities of the same model.
Capacity is one of the main factors, and as you say CPU performance is another. But on balance, that is exactly what makes laptop 1 the harder sell. Storage is something you can upgrade, be it using an external drive or in the case of the Surface Laptop 3 upgrading the internal drive. The CPU cannot be upgraded under any circumstances. With that in mind (and prices being equal if you buy laptop 2 direct from Microsoft), it's incredibly difficult to justify spending £800 on a 3 year old laptop when you can not only pay the same price for one that performs better but as a result has far superior longevity. Regardless of how long the dual core i7 actually lasts, the more modern Surface Laptop 3 would simply last longer. Less than £50 will get you a 1TB external hard drive, or around £100 will get you a high perfoming internal 512GB M.2 SSD like a 970 Evo. Buying the laptop that lasts longer and at most would cost £100 somewhere down the line to make it competitive on storage is a no brainer, if of course you weren't looking at other options. But as I mentioned, I wouldn't consider either of these choices to be ideal value for money.
Original post by certiwaves
` 1 due to the fact its near the same, better value and a better ram and has an i7 while the argos one has an i5.
Does that opinion change if I tell you the i5 in laptop 2 will perform some 20-80% better than the i7 in laptop 1, simply because laptop 1 is actually a 3 year old device and laptop 2 released in October last year?
It's difficult as you either accept a really good laptop (not so premium one) or you accept a premium laptop and miss out on quite a lot since it would be low on the ladder of premium laptops. That being said, the Macbook Air 2018 isn't difficult to get for the same price as laptop 1 and laptop 2 but the laptop 2 is definitely available for a lot less: https://www.tecobuy.co.uk/en_UK/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-13-5-inch-i5-8gb-128gb-platinum-us-keyboard.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwgbLzBRBsEiwAXVIygHW07cplxIeh2CCG4di91RwqstNYnGmgQzvrs-59e5DV0UKkr0ZVUxoC1_oQAvD_BwE
Original post by The Serious
It's difficult as you either accept a really good laptop (not so premium one) or you accept a premium laptop and miss out on quite a lot since it would be low on the ladder of premium laptops. That being said, the Macbook Air 2018 isn't difficult to get for the same price as laptop 1 and laptop 2 but the laptop 2 is definitely available for a lot less: https://www.tecobuy.co.uk/en_UK/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-13-5-inch-i5-8gb-128gb-platinum-us-keyboard.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwgbLzBRBsEiwAXVIygHW07cplxIeh2CCG4di91RwqstNYnGmgQzvrs-59e5DV0UKkr0ZVUxoC1_oQAvD_BwE
I'll be totally honest, I don't see it that way at all. Both are premium laptops in their own right, but laptop 1 has not aged well. Nowadays paying £800 for a premium laptop that has a 3 year old dual core processor is laughable. Apple was a laughing stock for years because they refused to update their MacBook Pro with quad core chips. Laptop 1 was a premium device, but it's not something anyone should be paying £800 for nowadays. Laptop 2 on the other hand is a modern Surface. Literally everything about it fits the premium ultrabook monicker, with the only exception being storage. But given how higher capacity models tend to sit around £1200, it's actually pretty good value. Now that Surface Laptops have storage you can upgrade yourself there's an argument to be had for buying the 128GB model and just upgrading yourself. It's still cheaper than paying for the next model up, although I fully appreciate that not everyone wants to upgrade the storage themselves and reinstall Windows. But at that point we are talking about personal preferences, rather than which one is objectively better value for money.
I'd really struggle to even consider the MacBook Air as a contender, unless someone really wanted OSX. The current Air starts at £1099, and has a dual core processor, 8GB of RAM and 128GB of storage. You're taking the worst parts of both laptops (outdated processor, entry level RAM and storage) and combining them. And if we're going to start introducing other laptops, I'd go back to my original point. If it were my money, I'd spend <£600 on a Dell Inspiron and save whatever is left over. If I desperately needed the extra RAM and storage I could spend the money on upgrading and still be spending less. All I'm giving up is the premium monicker that comes with a Surface, and it'd be a bit larger/heavier. But that's not a deal breaker and the increased screen size will be a benefit for some. If we're talking value for money, premium devices don't make sense. If you want a premium device, you need to be willing to pay for it. Outside of buying off non-reputable sites, or buying second hand/outdated hardware, £800 isn't quite the right budget for a premium device. But at this point we're quite far off topic, because OP hasn't asked for recommendations, nor do we know anything about them to make such recommendations.
With regards to that link, you end up back at the most mentioned point in this thread. Unreliable looking sites. I'm sure they're absolutely fine, but if I were spending a significant amount of money on a premium laptop I'd be looking at buying it from a reputable seller. As soon as you see someone selling a product for less than the company that actually makes it, you should start seeing red flags.
The second laptop is not a premium laptop. Shoddy would be a better description for this Microsoft Surface effort.
Apple has never been a laughing stock amongst true IT professionals - apart from possibly their butterfly keyboards.
That's because people that really understand IT realise that MacOs is a highly valid alternative to Windows.
Apple has never been a laughing stock amongst true IT professionals - apart from possibly their butterfly keyboards.
That's because people that really understand IT realise that MacOs is a highly valid alternative to Windows.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
The second laptop is not a premium laptop. Shoddy would be a better description for this Microsoft Surface effort.
Your personal opinions on the Surface range do not change the fact that they're premium products. You don't like it and that's quite clear, but if you want to call it shoddy you'll need to actually provide some justification for that. Of course this is completely off topic, as this is not a thread to debate whether you personally like the product or not. There are certainly some design choices I personally disagree with in the Surface lineup, but the same is true for all other premium laptops. It's a stretch to call them shoddy based on those personal opinions.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
Apple has never been a laughing stock amongst true IT professionals - apart from possibly their butterfly keyboards.
IDK what you think a true IT professional is (or why you're even introducing the idea of IT professionals), but there have been countless instances of people complaining when Apple failed to update their MacBook lineup. The backlash when 8th gen quad core chips were released and Apple refreshed their MacBook Pro with a 7th gen processor. The cooling performance of their i9 model resulted in it performing worse than their i7 model. And as you say the butterfly keyboard fiasco was an ongoing issue for years. There are many instances where Apple's decisions were laughable compared to their competitors and if you really think the only thing they ever did wrong was butterfly keyboards then you need to stop being a fanboy.
Do Apple make good products? Sure. Are they infallible? Far from it.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
That's because people that really understand IT realise that MacOs is a highly valid alternative to Windows.
Nobody is denying that MacOS is a valid alternative to Windows, but a computer is more than just the OS running on it. Once again IDK why you're bringing this up because if OP actually wanted a MacBook then they'd be asking for recommendations. But I'm not going to get into a silly debate here. "Real IT professionals" appreciate that MacOS, Windows and Linux all have their place in both industry and consumer use cases. All these silly jabs of "real IT professinals" and people that "really understand IT" are immature.
Arguably, paying for any premium laptop is laughable. You would be asking for less of the things that really matter and more of the things that don't matter (subjective, I know).
Laptop 1 still remains a lot better than the base model (not surprising). In my opinion, laptop 1 is really good and while the CPU is outdated, it wouldn't be the worst of laptops to use. As you say, it is definitely a premium laptop, but if paying £800 then 'just not being the worst' laptop wouldn't justify the amount spent. I wonder how much laptop 1 would need to be pushed to realise any issues. I don't think you would encounter too many issues to begin with other than the possibly unjustified hole in your wallet. 😂😂😂
Laptop 2 with the so little storage might actually prove to be more problematic for normal use/daily tasks. However, while laptop 2 lacks in storage, it can easily be coupled with cloud storage or an external SSD from Samsung. Microosft discourage replacing although I doubt that's due to anything more than "you need to be a super professional to open up this laptop". Most people have no interest in doing all of this since it's not ideal and there is the issue of warranty (although we're looking at sites that aren't reputable anyway, excluding Argos).
I would agree that laptop 2 is the better option, but laptop 1 could be a better option for some if it was made available for less. Then again, such a thing would help make any laptop the better option.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-1035G7+%40+1.20GHz&id=3582
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7660U+%40+2.50GHz&id=3016
Laptop 1 still remains a lot better than the base model (not surprising). In my opinion, laptop 1 is really good and while the CPU is outdated, it wouldn't be the worst of laptops to use. As you say, it is definitely a premium laptop, but if paying £800 then 'just not being the worst' laptop wouldn't justify the amount spent. I wonder how much laptop 1 would need to be pushed to realise any issues. I don't think you would encounter too many issues to begin with other than the possibly unjustified hole in your wallet. 😂😂😂
Laptop 2 with the so little storage might actually prove to be more problematic for normal use/daily tasks. However, while laptop 2 lacks in storage, it can easily be coupled with cloud storage or an external SSD from Samsung. Microosft discourage replacing although I doubt that's due to anything more than "you need to be a super professional to open up this laptop". Most people have no interest in doing all of this since it's not ideal and there is the issue of warranty (although we're looking at sites that aren't reputable anyway, excluding Argos).
I would agree that laptop 2 is the better option, but laptop 1 could be a better option for some if it was made available for less. Then again, such a thing would help make any laptop the better option.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-1035G7+%40+1.20GHz&id=3582
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7660U+%40+2.50GHz&id=3016
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
The second laptop is not a premium laptop. Shoddy would be a better description for this Microsoft Surface effort.
Apple has never been a laughing stock amongst true IT professionals - apart from possibly their butterfly keyboards.
That's because people that really understand IT realise that MacOs is a highly valid alternative to Windows.
Apple has never been a laughing stock amongst true IT professionals - apart from possibly their butterfly keyboards.
That's because people that really understand IT realise that MacOs is a highly valid alternative to Windows.
Apple: Our new Macbook Air comes with Alcantara!
Dunnig Kruger, the Apple fanboy: I could never laugh at Apple while they're so creative in thinking of such unique ideas, my goodness! The laptop for true IT professionals has surfaced!
😂😂😂
Google "Microsoft surface shoddy"
Or "Microsoft surface junk"
Microsoft don't even have a large share of the global laptop market. HP, Lenovo, Dell do. And their big sellers are their business laptops.
Now go and ahead and google, for example:
"HP 840 shoddy"
Or "HP 840 junk"
Compare and contrast.
Or go ahead and issue 1000 laptops to two different organisations with similar user profiles.
Issue HP or Lenovo or Dell business laptops to one organisation and Microsoft Surface laptops to the other. See how the laptops fare in each organisation...
For the record, there is a huge difference between saying that MacOs is a valid alternative to Windows and being an Apple fanboy.
Windows laptops are a valid choice as well. Which is better for any particular person or any organisation? It all depends.
Or "Microsoft surface junk"
Microsoft don't even have a large share of the global laptop market. HP, Lenovo, Dell do. And their big sellers are their business laptops.
Now go and ahead and google, for example:
"HP 840 shoddy"
Or "HP 840 junk"
Compare and contrast.
Or go ahead and issue 1000 laptops to two different organisations with similar user profiles.
Issue HP or Lenovo or Dell business laptops to one organisation and Microsoft Surface laptops to the other. See how the laptops fare in each organisation...
For the record, there is a huge difference between saying that MacOs is a valid alternative to Windows and being an Apple fanboy.
Windows laptops are a valid choice as well. Which is better for any particular person or any organisation? It all depends.
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