The Student Room Group

Chinese state continues pushing conspiracy blaming US for coronavirus

Scroll to see replies

Original post by DiddyDec
They are not camps to be used for traditional genocide rather cultural genocide. The Chinese hate anyone that has ideas different to their dictator.

Elaborate on that. What are those 'ideas'?
Original post by comradev
Elaborate on that. What are those 'ideas'?

Islam and Christianity. It is classic Sinicization.

That comes directly from Xi.
Original post by DiddyDec
Islam and Christianity. It is classic Sinicization.

That comes directly from Xi.

The article mentions that according to Xi Jinping, the objective of such sinicization is to "guide the adaptation of religions to socialist society". Nothing there suggests that they hate religion and want to eradicate it (in fact, they wish to strengthen "the education of religious figures" and give "full play to patriotic religious groups"); they just intend to alter it so that it fits in their society (which is probably the reason why religions appeared in the first place anyway).

Their actions seems completely reasonable as steps taken to avoid religious extremism.
Original post by comradev
The chinese 'concentration camps' have already been proven to be a myth spread by the CIA. The re-education centres did exist, but the conditions inside them were grossly exaggerated. I am willing to provide sources if you ask for them.

I am not saying that the CIA did it, but I do believe that the possibility is not off the table as this does not seem like something that they wouldn't do, given their past activities. I would also sooner believe the virus to be CIA's fault, rather than China's. Nevertheless, I think that the most likely scenario is that the virus appeared naturally, neither due to the CIA's nor the CCP's activities.

Sorry, but I do not understand your second paragraph.

Yes i would like to see them, but ill tell you this now if any of them are Chinese businesses they are by default invalid. All companies in china are subjects of the CCP and cannot operate if they say anything other than party propaganda.

It is off the table and it doesn't seem like something they woul do because even if you hate the CIA you have to admit they work in the interest of the US; and crashing the US economy does not benefit the US.

My last paragraph explains that If the CIA did this the US(and probably a lot of their alies) would have closed its borders to all foreign travellers in January like Russia did, and just like russia they would have barely any cases now.

In general your entire theory is backed by nothing but feelings and CCP propaganda. Also for it to be correct: all the conspiracy theories have to be 100% right about the CIA back in the day, the CIA can not have not changed since the 70s and also they have to be extremely bad at their jobs. Whereas the more likely explanation is the Chinese made a bio weapon and it leaked out. This is likely because: we have modern evidence that the CCP does not care for human rights and so would do something like this, we know the lab that was near the epicenter was working on sars like viruses to make a vaccine, the sars outbreak shows Chinese micro biology labs are not professional enough to prevent this.
Original post by comradev
The article mentions that according to Xi Jinping, the objective of such sinicization is to "guide the adaptation of religions to socialist society". Nothing there suggests that they hate religion and want to eradicate it (in fact, they wish to strengthen "the education of religious figures" and give "full play to patriotic religious groups"); they just intend to alter it so that it fits in their society (which is probably the reason why religions appeared in the first place anyway).

Their actions seems completely reasonable as steps taken to avoid religious extremism.

The CCP do hate religion becuase it takes power away from them, they will only accept religion if they can edit religious text and keep the religious leaders under their control.
Original post by comradev
The article mentions that according to Xi Jinping, the objective of such sinicization is to "guide the adaptation of religions to socialist society". Nothing there suggests that they hate religion and want to eradicate it (in fact, they wish to strengthen "the education of religious figures" and give "full play to patriotic religious groups"); they just intend to alter it so that it fits in their society (which is probably the reason why religions appeared in the first place anyway).

Their actions seems completely reasonable as steps taken to avoid religious extremism.


That is called political spin aka propaganda.

Locking up millions of people without trial for being a member of a religion is not reasonable in the slightest. It is ****ing barbaric.
Original post by 999tigger
Except if you were going to profit, then you would already have bought the company and it pales into insignificance compared to the amount of damage done to the US economy, so complete nonsense.


Actually, the German government stopped the US from buying the company (this was confirmed by the German government themselves). Trump is trying to say he found the vaccine and then charge a huge amount to all the other 100+ other countries who have coronavirus. Remember he has an election coming up.
Original post by Mustafa0605
Actually, the German government stopped the US from buying the company (this was confirmed by the German government themselves). Trump is trying to say he found the vaccine and then charge a huge amount to all the other 100+ other countries who have coronavirus. Remember he has an election coming up.

Your claim is ridiculous which shows you dont have an understanding of the economic impact of cv19. It will only be a matter of time before many other countries develop their own vaccine.
No he hasnt found the vaccine, link your source.
No he isnt charging anyone anything.
If anything cv 19 has been a disaster for him so far.
Original post by 999tigger
Your claim is ridiculous which shows you dont have an understanding of the economic impact of cv19. It will only be a matter of time before many other countries develop their own vaccine.
No he hasnt found the vaccine, link your source.
No he isnt charging anyone anything.
If anything cv 19 has been a disaster for him so far.

E385F131-38A4-486C-8E12-53AC218B3587.jpg.jpeg
Original post by Ragman75
Yes i would like to see them, but ill tell you this now if any of them are Chinese businesses they are by default invalid. All companies in china are subjects of the CCP and cannot operate if they say anything other than party propaganda.

It is off the table and it doesn't seem like something they woul do because even if you hate the CIA you have to admit they work in the interest of the US; and crashing the US economy does not benefit the US.

My last paragraph explains that If the CIA did this the US(and probably a lot of their alies) would have closed its borders to all foreign travellers in January like Russia did, and just like russia they would have barely any cases now.

In general your entire theory is backed by nothing but feelings and CCP propaganda. Also for it to be correct: all the conspiracy theories have to be 100% right about the CIA back in the day, the CIA can not have not changed since the 70s and also they have to be extremely bad at their jobs. Whereas the more likely explanation is the Chinese made a bio weapon and it leaked out. This is likely because: we have modern evidence that the CCP does not care for human rights and so would do something like this, we know the lab that was near the epicenter was working on sars like viruses to make a vaccine, the sars outbreak shows Chinese micro biology labs are not professional enough to prevent this.

Oh, but let me guess, if a source was financed by the American government, it must be reliable, right? (lol) Don't worry though, my sources are fortunately backed by neither:

Rushan Abbas, an Uyghur anti-China activist, worked with the CIA in Guantanamo Bay (quite ironic for someone campaigning for human rights), as well as with Radio Free Asia: https://web.archive.org/web/20181207031224/https://www.isi-consultants.com/rushan-abbas/

Analysis of the reliability of the original sources reporting on the camps: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

None of the countries condemning China's treatment of Uyghurs have a Muslim majority, or even a significant presence (conveniently, you sort of get a map of the major NATO members and their supporters when you look at the countries in the 'Against' section): https://imgur.com/Cks29xL

Furthermore, China is not opposed to Islam - their activities in the region are purely for the suppression of ISIS-like extremism (the quote “Kill the Han, kill the Hui” from the article comes to mind): https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/

The article is about DPRK defectors, but I feel like this can apply to Uyghur testimonies as well, assuming they are not just CIA agents: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/why-do-north-korean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart

So, what do we learn from these sources? First of all, China has no genocidal intentions towards Muslims: in fact, the Uyghur religious extremists have genocidal intentions towards other Chinese. Secondly, nearly all reporting on treatment of Uyghurs from Western sources has a clear CIA influence - not exactly something that helps their reliability. Finally, the stories of people with a first-hand experience are likely to be exaggerated due to the incentivisation of being as sensational as possible.

Whether or not you think these sources are enough to prove my point, you should also consider the fact that the American government has concentration camps today with hard evidence of the conditions within them.

The CIA also still regularly overthrows democratically-elected governments (for two of the most recent examples, see the coup in Bolivia and Guaido's attempted coup in Venezuela), and supported genocide as late as the 90s: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/sep/12/americas-secret-role-in-the-rwandan-genocide

Sure, a hole in my 'theory' (that I have already said to not completely believe in) is the fact that the US would have closed its borders to foreigners had it started the virus. However, a hole in your theory would be the simple fact that a bioweapon would not only be effective against the elderly and those that are already diseased. Otherwise, it's not a very good bioweapon.

"This is likely because: we have modern evidence that the CCP does not care for human rights and so would do something like this"
bro we also have modern evidence that the CIA does not care for human rights and so would do something like this, just look at Guantanamo Bay

Anyway, I had enough of holding the burden of proof for today. How about you hit me up with some of your own sources?
Literally nobody knows about the history of extremism in Xinjiang, and jump to conclusions when 100% of them have never even heard of Xinjiang before the concentration camp propaganda was pushed.
Original post by DiddyDec
That is called political spin aka propaganda.

Locking up millions of people without trial for being a member of a religion is not reasonable in the slightest. It is ****ing barbaric.

They are not being locked up because they are members of a religion, they are locked up because they are from a region that has a very high presence of religious extremism. The fact that other Chinese Muslims are free to practice Islam is sufficient enough evidence for that: https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/
Of course, most of those people are probably innocent and far from being extremists, but that is a necessary sacrifice to deradicalise those that need it.

Anyway, since we are veering off topic into China's stance on religion here, would you say that China's 'cultural genocide' is worse than CIA's support of actual genocides?
Original post by comradev
They are not being locked up because they are members of a religion, they are locked up because they are from a region that has a very high presence of religious extremism. The fact that other Chinese Muslims are free to practice Islam is sufficient enough evidence for that: https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/
Of course, most of those people are probably innocent and far from being extremists, but that is a necessary sacrifice to deradicalise those that need it.

Anyway, since we are veering off topic into China's stance on religion here, would you say that China's 'cultural genocide' is worse than CIA's support of actual genocides?

So you support locking people up because they are from a certain region? No right to trial or anything?

And whilst we are talking about China, you support their surpression of democracy in Hong Kong? Or their silencing of doctors who tried to warn of the spread of corona virus
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
So you support locking people up because they are from a certain region? No right to trial or anything?

There is no need for a trial because they are not being punished for having committed a crime - they are being deradicalised because they have a high chance of being extremists, and therefore posing a danger to others.
Original post by comradev
There is no need for a trial because they are not being punished for having committed a crime - they are being deradicalised because they have a high chance of being extremists, and therefore posing a danger to others.

They are being detained against their will with no trial. And you support that?

People born in Syria have a higher chance of being radicalised, do you support us rounding up every man and women and forcing them into camps for "deradicalisation" purely because of where they were born? And with no trial?

If i may ask, where do you currently reside?
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
They are being detained against their will with no trial. And you support that?

People born in Syria have a higher chance of being radicalised, do you support us rounding up every man and women and forcing them into camps for "deradicalisation" purely because of where they were born? And with no trial?

If the extremists already have a significant, dangerous presence somewhere, mostly belong to a specific demographic and are suspected of being backed by foreign powers, then I would say that keeping a close eye on as many members of that demographic as possible, and temporarily detaining those with evidence of being potential extremists is an acceptable way of dealing with the problem. Keep in mind that China did not detain all Uyghurs: only those that appeared the most dangerous were detained (although I am aware the threshold for being labeled as such appears to be rather low), and Uyghur extremism in Xinjiang pales in comparison to extremism by people born in Syria.

It is not exactly a good way, but what other choice did China have? Give them independence, therefore risking subjecting the population of that entire region to a theocracy and weakening themselves against foreign powers?

To answer your edit of your previous comment, I recall the people that initially covered up the virus were just the local Wuhan authorities, and they were later punished for their handling of the issue. I also support China on the matter of Hong Kong. On the other hand, one major issue I do not support China on is its high number of billionaires, but that is what the term 'critical support' is for.
Original post by comradev
If the extremists already have a significant, dangerous presence somewhere, mostly belong to a specific demographic and are suspected of being backed by foreign powers, then I would say that keeping a close eye on as many members of that demographic as possible, and temporarily detaining those with evidence of being potential extremists is an acceptable way of dealing with the problem. Keep in mind that China did not detain all Uyghurs: only those that appeared the most dangerous were detained (although I am aware the threshold for being labeled as such appears to be rather low), and Uyghur extremism in Xinjiang pales in comparison to extremism by people born in Syria.

It is not exactly a good way, but what other choice did China have? Give them independence, therefore risking subjecting the population of that entire region to a theocracy and weakening themselves against foreign powers?

To answer your edit of your previous comment, I recall the people that initially covered up the virus were just the local Wuhan authorities, and they were later punished for their handling of the issue. I also support China on the matter of Hong Kong. On the other hand, one major issue I do not support China on is its high number of billionaires, but that is what the term 'critical support' is for.

I mean I literally disagree with your whole post but I'm over it now it's getting late.

Where do you reside, as in where do you live?
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
I mean I literally disagree with your whole post but I'm over it now it's getting late.

Where do you reside, as in where do you live?

Well, since this is a British website, is it not safe to assume that most people here live there as well? I live in the UK but a large portion of my family lived in the Soviet Union before it fell apart, and hence I am aware of the contrast between Western propaganda and actual conditions within socialist or semi-socialist states.

Anyhow, good night I guess.
Original post by comradev
Well, since this is a British website, is it not safe to assume that most people here live there as well? I live in the UK but a large portion of my family lived in the Soviet Union before it fell apart, and hence I am aware of the contrast between Western propaganda and actual conditions within socialist or semi-socialist states.

Anyhow, good night I guess.

Fair enough you just seemed to have a very poisitive view on the Chinese government, which is uncommon for the UK, we would disagree on the reasoning behind that.
But yes, sleep well.
Reply 39
Original post by comradev
The article mentions that according to Xi Jinping, the objective of such sinicization is to "guide the adaptation of religions to socialist society". Nothing there suggests that they hate religion and want to eradicate it (in fact, they wish to strengthen "the education of religious figures" and give "full play to patriotic religious groups"); they just intend to alter it so that it fits in their society (which is probably the reason why religions appeared in the first place anyway).

Their actions seems completely reasonable as steps taken to avoid religious extremism.

By any chance are you a paid up member of the CCP? Or do you honestly believe that all these people put in concentration camps and the rest of the jail (gulag) system were religious extremists?

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending