Will Coronavirus change the UK forever?

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Ferrograd
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Obviously the virus will eventually recede as a result of isolating infected victims and general social distancing, never mind the eventual vaccine. But what will we do after. What state will our economy be in? My school has told many people who were looking for apprenticesehips they should consider university as there won't be any jobs. Entire industries will be decimated. What will our state of education be? Schools will have closed for several months. Will the airline industry ever recover? All questions that we need to start thinking about. Also worth considering Brexit negotiations look set to be postponed, so a full Brexit may be pushed back another year or two. Almsot as if it's just not meant to happen
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Drewski
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No. People are too selfish for that. The second they can go back to 'normal', they will.
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TCA2b
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It will create new opportunities for enterprising individuals - look at it that way.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by TCA2b)
It will create new opportunities for enterprising individuals - look at it that way.
Yeah, thieving companies who want to profiteer from a crisis.,
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Yeah, thieving companies who want to profiteer from a crisis.,
This sort of attitude doesn't really help at all. I'd be less concerned about opportunists trying to make a buck out of the change in economic circumstances and more so concerned about governments using this as the pre-text to pass measures that would not usually withstand more considered scrutiny, by exploiting mass panic.

It's also not what I mean at all. I am referring to the fact that as things stabilise, there will be opportunities for investors and companies to pick up the slack where existing firms have been pushed out thanks to the flu.
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David Getling
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Obviously the virus will eventually recede as a result of isolating infected victims and general social distancing, never mind the eventual vaccine. But what will we do after. What state will our economy be in? My school has told many people who were looking for apprenticesehips they should consider university as there won't be any jobs. Entire industries will be decimated. What will our state of education be? Schools will have closed for several months. Will the airline industry ever recover? All questions that we need to start thinking about
Thank you for this thread. This is exactly the kind of thing I've been saying for a while now, which has really annoyed the more timid.

As well as many businesses going to the wall, and people losing their jobs, Brits really need to ask themselves where the hell all this bailout money is coming from. Prior to the virus it was patently clear that the government didn't have much in the coffers. There was the argument about whether money should be spent on HS2 or northern cities, as there wasn't enough to do both. Of course, schools, the NHS, the police, and many other areas were also screaming for more cash. The bottom line is that the government is planning to spend vast amounts of money that it doesn't have. This money has to be borrowed, but many other countries are in the same (sinking) boat. You don't have to be an economist to realise that with everyone wanting to borrow money the cost of this borrowing is going to go through the roof. So, when the dust has settled, are we going to be in for 20 years of austerity, or are taxes to finance this borrowing going to go through the roof, or both?

In the panic to minimise the deaths due to coronavirus, do we risk doing so much damage that we won't have much of a future, and maybe ultimately suffer far more deaths due to a chronically underfunded NHS and social system. People, and the government really need to be asking these questions NOW!
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TCA2b
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The government would usually finance these sort of measures through Treasury sales. I agree that there are concerns as to how this borrowing is going to be funded, especially because foreign buyers won't necessarily have the appetite to buy them, meaning it may fall to the BoE, which implies monetisation of the debt... and a fall in the value of the currency. Whether it is financed through taxes or debt monetisation it's going to reduce incomes. The government cannot realistically bail out businesses indefinitely.

That said, it all depends on how long the entire state of affairs lasts, since it's a virus, and if something can be found to halt its spread, the measures which are compounding the problem on an economic dimension will also fall away. If anything, it will be interesting when the whole thing blows over to see how different systems handled this... such as that of South Korea vs most western governments.
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YUSLP
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Eagerly watching😁
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David Getling
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Yeah, thieving companies who want to profiteer from a crisis.,
It's funny you should say that. Online tutoring companies are already scrambling to get their noses in the trough. One of them was on the news last night. Initially they were making a free offering, but we all know what the long term intent is.
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TCA2b
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Well yes, they are businesses in the end... doesn't mean it's "thieving".
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David Getling
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(Original post by TCA2b)
more so concerned about governments using this as the pre-text to pass measures that would not usually withstand more considered scrutiny, by exploiting mass panic.
This is a very real concern. Forcing people to stay in their homes is very much a case of imprisonment. And one can only wonder whether it might get to the stage whereby people like me who criticise government policy get a knock on the door, and are taken away.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by David Getling)
This is a very real concern. Forcing people to stay in their homes is very much a case of imprisonment. And one can only wonder whether it might get to the stage whereby people like me who criticise government policy get a knock on the door, and are taken away.
This is what annoys me when people "compare" the UK to "singapore" or "hong kong". You can't! These are tiny, tiny city states and despite the latter claiming to be democratic, it is still run under the close watch of Beijing, both are effectively qasi-dictatorships with huge CCTV etc
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MrMusician95
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Nope. The entire world will go back to "normal" as soon as it's possible.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by MrMusician95)
Nope. The entire world will go back to "normal" as soon as it's possible.
It won't though, that's the thing. The economic damage will be so huge, there will be mass unemployment, it will be like the 30s all over again. Ironically someone did joke about "history repeating itself" and the 2020s mirroring the 1920s.
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MrMusician95
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
It won't though, that's the thing. The economic damage will be so huge, there will be mass unemployment, it will be like the 30s all over again. Ironically someone did joke about "history repeating itself" and the 2020s mirroring the 1920s.
That's why I said back to normal as soon as it's possible. Humans are selfish, we will see that again after the COVID-19 pandemic.
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vicvic38
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
This is what annoys me when people "compare" the UK to "singapore" or "hong kong". You can't! These are tiny, tiny city states and despite the latter claiming to be democratic, it is still run under the close watch of Beijing, both are effectively qasi-dictatorships with huge CCTV etc
I laugh at all the people trying to say that we need to run out this crisis like the Chinese are. Yes I will give up all my civil liberties! I'll be welded into my home, or have my head shaved as a PR stunt because I'm a woman. I'll cover up the crisis and crack down on the people who were trying to warn us.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by vicvic38)
I laugh at all the people trying to say that we need to run out this crisis like the Chinese are. Yes I will give up all my civil liberties! I'll be welded into my home, or have my head shaved as a PR stunt because I'm a woman. I'll cover up the crisis and crack down on the people who were trying to warn us.
Orwell would be turning in his grave. There's literal videos of drones being used to spy on people and shout at them to tell them to go inside.

That said, I would be willing to have lockdowns in London.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by vicvic38)
I laugh at all the people trying to say that we need to run out this crisis like the Chinese are. Yes I will give up all my civil liberties! I'll be welded into my home, or have my head shaved as a PR stunt because I'm a woman. I'll cover up the crisis and crack down on the people who were trying to warn us.
The worst part, IMO, is that their handling of this is what caused this to escalate to the extent it has on a global basis. China's government has a history with suppressing information during such epidemics, as well as total control over the spread of information within China and a social credit system on top of that, and it seems the only thing it learnt from SARS was how to silence any would-be whistleblowers. Now we're meant to believe this same government, with some 80k+ cases, has reduced this to next to no new cases on a daily basis. Doesn't pass the smell test.

The other thing is, it's all well and good spraying "disinfectant" over cities, but what's the long term health effects of that going to be, even if it does control the spread of the virus?
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vicvic38
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(Original post by TCA2b)
The worst part, IMO, is that their handling of this is what caused this to escalate to the extent it has on a global basis. China's government has a history with suppressing information during such epidemics, as well as total control over the spread of information within China and a social credit system on top of that, and it seems the only thing it learnt from SARS was how to silence any would-be whistleblowers. Now we're meant to believe this same government, with some 80k+ cases, has reduced this to next to no new cases on a daily basis. Doesn't pass the smell test.

The other thing is, it's all well and good spraying "disinfectant" over cities, but what's the long term health effects of that going to be, even if it does control the spread of the virus?
I remember watching a video back in January from a guy who lives in China. This was around the time it became a big thing, he was talking about how all talk of this infection was being forcibly stamped out of wechat and whatever. He supposed it was because of a Chinese superstition that claims the fall of every great dynasty was preceded by a great tragedy. He presumed that the ruling party was trying to suppress this (thinking it wasn't going to grow to THIS scale) so it didn't become ammunition for detractors. He also blamed the top down dictatorship that runs the country. No one could do anything because they needed approval from a higher up to act.

But yeah people should be looking to that government for how to manage a crisis.
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imlikeahermit
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When this is all said and done in god knows how long, China need to face some serious repercussions. The way they tried to cover this up is unforgivable. They knew about it, and did nothing. Absolutely abhorrent.
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