A return of the national government?

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Ferrograd
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-conservatives

Would be very interesting. I've already predicted a return to consensus politics in the UK, evident in Suank's actions as chancellor. Seems to me once this dies down, we will see some kind of new Marshall Plan, Boris will be forced to step down, and Labour will win, especially under Starmer. History does like to repeat itself. Strange times.
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ThomH97
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I'm not sure how much blame people will be able to pin on Boris given that the public ignored his instruction and it would take martial law to enforce it. Possibly he could have asked nicely sooner, but that's still dependent on people obeying.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by ThomH97)
I'm not sure how much blame people will be able to pin on Boris given that the public ignored his instruction and it would take martial law to enforce it. Possibly he could have asked nicely sooner, but that's still dependent on people obeying.
Probably more likely the point they failed to act quickly, with the stupid idea of herd immunity that would have killed 510K+ and the fact that if the tories hadn't underfunded the NHS for years it would probably be in a better position to deal with this. Now that's not saying they wouldn't struggle, other systems have but still. Especially if Starmer and labour manage to prove they are repsonsible at governing like atlee, bevan et al did whilst in the national government
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ThomH97
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Probably more likely the point they failed to act quickly, with the stupid idea of herd immunity that would have killed 510K+ and the fact that if the tories hadn't underfunded the NHS for years it would probably be in a better position to deal with this. Now that's not saying they wouldn't struggle, other systems have but still. Especially if Starmer and labour manage to prove they are repsonsible at governing like atlee, bevan et al did whilst in the national government
I think the main point is underfunding the NHS. But what if it can cope (due to the widely ignored exploitation of staff goodwill and selflessness)? We collectively voted in the Tories this time with ease, knowing that they want to crush the NHS.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by ThomH97)
I think the main point is underfunding the NHS. But what if it can cope (due to the widely ignored exploitation of staff goodwill and selflessness)? We collectively voted in the Tories this time with ease, knowing that they want to crush the NHS.
The thing that makes me angry the most...is the tories spouted out rubbish about there being "no magic money tree", yet this government has spent so much, with this crisis, we will have debt and deficits for years. Ah well. We warned the public. Cruel as it may sound, there is something..symbolic about this disease seemingly sparing the young , and women (most victims are male). Perhaps it will teach people to value our health service more. I've always worried about pandemics, and the fact is is that we have never been prepared for such catastrophic events. I mean, thankfully coronavirus isn't that bad, as in most people its mild symptoms. Can you imagine, just imagine if it was more like the Spanish Flu, or God Forbid, some terroirst developed some kind of deadly man made virus as a biological weapon with a high mortality rate? It doesn't bear thinking about.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Especially if Starmer and labour manage to prove they are repsonsible at governing like atlee, bevan et al did whilst in the national government
And this is exactly why it won't happen.

While this crisis does certainly increase the chances of a shock 2024 loss (generally speaking the longer it goes on the worse but also how long it goes on for in other countries relative to us) there is very little chance that a national government will be formed. If Boris is really unpopular coming into 2023 he will be made to fall on his sword for the party.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Rakas21)
And this is exactly why it won't happen.

While this crisis does certainly increase the chances of a shock 2024 loss (generally speaking the longer it goes on the worse but also how long it goes on for in other countries relative to us) there is very little chance that a national government will be formed. If Boris is really unpopular coming into 2023 he will be made to fall on his sword for the party.
A lot of tories are in favour of it apparently, but many aren't, as they are fully aware of what happened the last time we had a national government. In my opinion, a national government isn't needed for coronavirus itself as in the wider scheme of things it is going to be short lasting, with it peaking in around 2 or 3 weeks and then declining. What a national government IS needed for is the economic recovery of the country. That was, after all, why the national government in 1931 was formed in the first place.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
A lot of tories are in favour of it apparently, but many aren't, as they are fully aware of what happened the last time we had a national government. In my opinion, a national government isn't needed for coronavirus itself as in the wider scheme of things it is going to be short lasting, with it peaking in around 2 or 3 weeks and then declining. What a national government IS needed for is the economic recovery of the country. That was, after all, why the national government in 1931 was formed in the first place.
A lot of Tories were also reported as supportive of a national unity government for Brexit. These are people on the benches who are not important or think they may lose their seats.

Different times. Theoretically this being a state sanctioned deflationary shock should actually be likely to produce a stronger recovery than the Great Recession where their were fundamental issues in the economy and our growth model.

Also worth saying that right from the 1890's the Conservative Party had been falling slowly to socialism so the gap between the parties was much less than today where even Labour members when polled don't remotely represent their voters on a whole variety of issues. Momentum-Tory just won't happen and it would not survive.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Rakas21)
A lot of Tories were also reported as supportive of a national unity government for Brexit. These are people on the benches who are not important or think they may lose their seats.

Different times. Theoretically this being a state sanctioned deflationary shock should actually be likely to produce a stronger recovery than the Great Recession where their were fundamental issues in the economy and our growth model.

Also worth saying that right from the 1890's the Conservative Party had been falling slowly to socialism so the gap between the parties was much less than today where even Labour members when polled don't remotely represent their voters on a whole variety of issues. Momentum-Tory just won't happen and it would not survive.
I actually think the tories under Boris and Sunak will mark a return to the consensus politics of the 50s and 60s. the budget was so kenysian
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
I actually think the tories under Boris and Sunak will mark a return to the consensus politics of the 50s and 60s. the budget was so kenysian
That's entirely probable given the lack of appetite for further heavy austerity.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by Rakas21)
That's entirely probable given the lack of appetite for further heavy austerity.
Which shows that people weren't concerned about Labour's high level of spending, or more like they just thought the Tories would be more responsible with it. Why is it "no magic money tree" when labour tries to do it but its "austerity is over" when the Tories do it?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Which shows that people weren't concerned about Labour's high level of spending, or more like they just thought the Tories would be more responsible with it. Why is it "no magic money tree" when labour tries to do it but its "austerity is over" when the Tories do it?
They were at the time because the Tories presented an argument that public spending was required and they were successful in winning that argument in 2010, 2015 and narrowly 2017.

The difficulty this time will be the length with which we have to persist with high deficits and restrained spending even if not austerity. By avoiding large cuts to public spending we will be lengthening the pain.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
Probably more likely the point they failed to act quickly, with the stupid idea of herd immunity that would have killed 510K+
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they had clamped down earlier and no one got the virus they would be accused of being heavy handed. Now they are being accused of not cracking down hard enough. They can't win.
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ukrj
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-conservatives

Would be very interesting. I've already predicted a return to consensus politics in the UK, evident in Suank's actions as chancellor. Seems to me once this dies down, we will see some kind of new Marshall Plan, Boris will be forced to step down, and Labour will win, especially under Starmer. History does like to repeat itself. Strange times.
Don't take that left wing rag called the Guardian seriously. They have been wrong about so many things i am amazed people still give it credence.
Rest assured, Labour will not win (possibly for a generation). They don't have a seriour leadership contender, don't have a strong front bench, they deserted their heartlands at the last election and, to top it off, they pissed off their Indian voters by needlessly talking about kashmir. look what they did to Trevor Philips.

Boris may step down once he effs things up (he is likely to at some point) but the tories will ditch him and replace him. Labour will not win.
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Ferrograd
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(Original post by ukrj)
Don't take that left wing rag called the Guardian seriously. They have been wrong about so many things i am amazed people still give it credence.
Rest assured, Labour will not win (possibly for a generation). They don't have a seriour leadership contender, don't have a strong front bench, they deserted their heartlands at the last election and, to top it off, they pissed off their Indian voters by needlessly talking about kashmir. look what they did to Trevor Philips.

Boris may step down once he effs things up (he is likely to at some point) but the tories will ditch him and replace him. Labour will not win.
People didn't like corbyn. I personally don't like starmer but i believe he is far more electable than any of the others, and that the public would take him seriously. They did not desert their heartlands, their heartlands deserted them. Forgetting how we had been the only ones to stand up for them when the tories were shutting down their mines
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ukrj
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(Original post by Ferrograd)
They did not desert their heartlands, their heartlands deserted them. Forgetting how we had been the only ones to stand up for them when the tories were shutting down their mines
Wow. Where do i start?
1. The Labour party should represent the interests of their voters, not the other way round. Over time everything changes ... your comment shows that Labour are refusing to adapt alongside their voters and therefore deserved to be slapped at the last election. The people are smarter that you are giving then credit for. If they move, you should move. Adapt ... or die.
2. You refer to the miners strike. Do you seriously expect labour voters to be eternally loyal because of actions taken 30 years ago? That was a dark time when unions were out of control. Why do you restrict you comment to the miner's strike. Why not talk about the Iraq war (WMD) which also happened under labour?
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LiberOfLondon
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There will be no GNU because the Tories have an 80 seat majority. There's no need for any form of coalition and I would be very surprised if Boris calls for one.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by ByEeek)
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they had clamped down earlier and no one got the virus they would be accused of being heavy handed. Now they are being accused of not cracking down hard enough. They can't win.
Completely agree. To me, this is more a damning endorsement of our society at present then a reflection upon our leadership. We as a society, have serious questions to answer after this.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Completely agree. To me, this is more a damning endorsement of our society at present then a reflection upon our leadership. We as a society, have serious questions to answer after this.
Perhaps. But then at the same time, successive leaders have been lied to us, cheated and treated with population with general contempt over many years. I would put this firmly at the foot of our leaders.

Do you not find it ironic that prior to the daily briefings and frequent interviews, most of the Tory leadership had decided to shun the BBC completely. How arrogant that a government will not submit itself for scrutiny from a part of the press deemed hostile to the message the government wanted to portray?
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paul514
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Some of the comments on here are pant wettingly funny.

There won’t be a government of national unity.

There won’t be a labour government in 2024, the conservatives haven’t been more popular than right now since at least thatcher.

Saying there is no magic money tree then providing hundreds of billions for a crisis situation isn’t a contradiction. They are simply picking the least worst option in the current situation to make sure the public have money to survive and jobs to go back to.

I can’t even remember the rest of the balls spouted in here off the top of my head so I will leave it there for now 😂

Edit - I just remembered the comments about the NHS being ‘massively underfunded’. It seems to be coping quite well for a genuine crisis situation.
Last edited by paul514; 16 hours ago
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