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University of Sussex
University of Sussex
Brighton
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Is Sussex Uni dwindling?

This is of little interest to most people, I understand, but it's not merely a whinge about league positions - it concerns the sheer scale of Sussex's apparent plunge, particularly in English, its flagship subject.

I knowingly picked Sussex over Nottingham, a more obviously prestigious university etc., because the course looked a lot more eclectic, a lot less prescriptive and a LOT less dreary. I also liked the sense I got from the open day subject talk - the US/Scottish-style interdisciplinarity, allowing you to take modules in various other things you might be interested in, the focus on seminars over lectures, and the generally unconventional and anti-authoritarian attitude they exhibited. Nottingham were pompous, stuffy and traditionalist in comparison.

What gives me pause is this. The Times - and yes, I know it's a nit-witted Murdoch rag - rate Sussex only just in the top 50 UK unis for English. That's low. Below a number of unis I'd literally never heard of. The Guardian puts it 32nd. As aware as we all are of the silly methodology employed in compiling league tables, they aren't totally meaningless.

So has Sussex lost many of its best teachers? Run out of cash? Stagnated somehow? Fallen to corporate management idiocy? Failed to attract brainy applicants? Or do they just have whiny students who bring their survey scores down?

I'm not a prestige whore. I just wonder what this steady decline in ranking means in reality - if it means much. I suspect it's still a great place to study English, with a more appealing course than any of the establishment unis like Oxford or Bristol, but performance-wise has 'officially' been left in the dust of unis it used to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with (Warwick, York etc.).

Any comment on this, however abusive and psychopathic, would be gratefully received.

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Reply 1
Run out of cash?


This ...

Fallen to corporate management idiocy?


... and this (as of the 1990s/early 2000s),

Or do they just have whiny students who bring their survey scores down?


... but most of all; this.

I honestly believe that the new VC's departmental & structural "reshuffle", combined with a sudden injection of targeted investment, should stem a lot of the institutional leakage, maybe even bouying Sussex back up the league tables.
University of Sussex
University of Sussex
Brighton
Snore
This is of little interest to most people, I understand, but it's not merely a whinge about league positions - it concerns the sheer scale of Sussex's apparent plunge, particularly in English, its flagship subject.

I knowingly picked Sussex over Nottingham, a more obviously prestigious university etc., because the course looked a lot more eclectic, a lot less prescriptive and a LOT less dreary. I also liked the sense I got from the open day subject talk - the US/Scottish-style interdisciplinarity, allowing you to take modules in various other things you might be interested in, the focus on seminars over lectures, and the generally unconventional and anti-authoritarian attitude they exhibited. Nottingham were pompous, stuffy and traditionalist in comparison.

What gives me pause is this. The Times - and yes, I know it's a nit-witted Murdoch rag - rate Sussex only just in the top 50 UK unis for English. That's low. Below a number of unis I'd literally never heard of. The Guardian puts it 32nd. As aware as we all are of the silly methodology employed in compiling league tables, they aren't totally meaningless.

So has Sussex lost many of its best teachers? Run out of cash? Stagnated somehow? Fallen to corporate management idiocy? Failed to attract brainy applicants? Or do they just have whiny students who bring their survey scores down?

I'm not a prestige whore. I just wonder what this steady decline in ranking means in reality - if it means much. I suspect it's still a great place to study English, with a more appealing course than any of the establishment unis like Oxford or Bristol, but performance-wise has 'officially' been left in the dust of unis it used to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with (Warwick, York etc.).

Any comment on this, however abusive and psychopathic, would be gratefully received.



This may be your problem. You may think it's more appealing than the other, established unis, but most people won't.

Surprising as you may find it, most people will prefer anything, in terms of courses and universities, that's "traditional" these days, lest they be lumped in with Media Studies.
Reply 3
Greatleysteg
This may be your problem. You may think it's more appealing than the other, established unis, but most people won't.

Surprising as you may find it, most people will prefer anything, in terms of courses and universities, that's "traditional" these days, lest they be lumped in with Media Studies.


Which (from where I'm standing, at least) is a highly negative and socially conservative - if not outright reactionary - approach to higher education.

[slightly dodgy analogy]If most people never left their country of origin, would that mean that travel was unanimously stupid?
Reply 4
Sussex has had a lot of negative attention of late - to do with debt, the VC, teaching structures. None of these problems are unique to Sussex, but the amount of coverage of them is larger than most. The student body is famous for its politcal activism and it shouts louder about the issues than other universities.

However, in my opinion this means in the long term the university will be better off, because it is being forced to change and improve in weak areas. A short dip will bring it back up in the future! I'm glad you have chosen it despite all this, because the downside of it is people being put off, and increasing the problem.
Reply 5
Dwindling in what?

Sussex is not a monolithic entity, rather some subjects rise and others fall. Good lecturers come and bad lecturers go. Newspapers become less and more biased. Students become more and more complaining. Higher education becomes more and more like a cattle market where degrees and personal maturation is brought and sold, and results massaged to improve standing. It's a real shame it's got like this.

I don't believe that league tables - especially those which go beyond individual courses or departments - are remotely useful or relevant.
Snore
I knowingly picked Sussex over Nottingham

Any comment on this, however abusive and psychopathic, would be gratefully received.


You silly person.
Reply 7
Ledge hits the nail on the head once more.
Reply 8
jointhedots
You silly person.


Why? I picked Sussex over Nottingham, Sheffield and York. Anyone who picks their university based entirely on league tables is a bit stupid.
Rosie18
Why? I picked Sussex over Nottingham, Sheffield and York. Anyone who picks their university based entirely on league tables is a bit stupid.


Don't take it too seriously. I picked it over Sheffield, Notts, Manchester and Birmingham. Was right at the time. :yep:
Reply 10
ledge
Dwindling in what?
QUOTE]

I said, English.

I agree that league tables are not useful, I didn't make any use of them in making my choices, but to say they are 'irrelevant' is just untrue. Newspapers have to show the methodology employed, which means they can't just pick the leftwing/rightwing/whatever university for a slating, they have to show how they arrived at their conclusions. So the fact that even the Guardian - a leftwing newspaper reviewing a leftwing university - rated Sussex lower than various ex-polys for English teaching and quality of feedback is significant. Who knows, perhaps Anglia Ruskin has a fantastic English department, but it is curious that a favourable paper would rate Sussex so beneath expectations.

And your assessment of universities as organic, constantly changing things is of course true, but I was being quite specific - one department (English), at one point in time (now). The apparent slating in the press could be down to, say, a worse-than-average 'brain drain' from Sussex English to higher paid jobs in places like Harvard and Yale, and someone on here might know something to slake my curiousity.

Which is basically what this is. Curiousity - I'm not vomiting blood and wailing over simplistic lists drawn up by tabloid hacks at the Times, nor those by the rather more thoughtful bunch at the Guardian. I made my choice based on the course (which beats any of those at unis I was considering), the perceived (by me) quality and enthusiasm of the English staff, and to a lesser extent the ethos and personality of the campus and location. I am still curious as to why a once-superlative reputation has fallen so far, but I don't regret picking the less prestigious, in fact I feel a peculiar sort of loyalty to Sussex without even being a member yet. I am fairly certain none of my other choices would have suited me nearly so well.
Reply 11
ledge
Dwindling in what?

Sussex is not a monolithic entity, rather some subjects rise and others fall. Good lecturers come and bad lecturers go. Newspapers become less and more biased. Students become more and more complaining. Higher education becomes more and more like a cattle market where degrees and personal maturation is brought and sold, and results massaged to improve standing. It's a real shame it's got like this.

I don't believe that league tables - especially those which go beyond individual courses or departments - are remotely useful or relevant.


Ok I don't think the quote function worked just now so I'm quoting again just to sort of tug your sleeve and let you know that I replied to your point
Reply 12
jointhedots
You silly person.


Which, the uni choice or inviting mentalists to vent spleen at me?
Reply 13
Ok, I know nothing about English.

Maybe it was the thread title that got worked up -- t'is a touch inflammatory, although it doesn't take much to spark me off either :smile:
Reply 14
Snore
Which, the uni choice or inviting mentalists to vent spleen at me?


A little more work on your communication skills and you might get a better response :wink:
Reply 15
And re-reading your original post, you were referring generally to Sussex's "plunge", as well as English. So I reckon my point stands.

B*llocks to league tables, and to inflammatory, generalising forum posts... !
Reply 16
ledge
A little more work on your communication skills and you might get a better response :wink:


I think the OP will fit right in at Sussex.
Reply 17
redluc
I think the OP will fit right in at Sussex.


Hahaha.

Indeed. The real reason for dwindling standards in English... :yep:
Reply 18
Just wondering.. wasn't the English dept totally overhauled just last year?

I would have more confidence in the Guardian/Times until rankings at least a few years after to see whatever results occur
Reply 19
Tuen
Just wondering.. wasn't the English dept totally overhauled just last year?

I would have more confidence in the Guardian/Times until rankings at least a few years after to see whatever results occur



This is part of what I was wondering about. I'd heard that the English Literature department had merged with the English Language one and this somehow obscured their 'performance' as a faculty in the eyes of the press. But I don't know any of the details; this is the sort of thing I'm interested in, much less knee-jerk zealots ascribing to me attitudes that I (clearly) don't hold.