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Original post by 999tigger
There should be a full investigation, but I doubt the Chinese will permit it and will be cleaning up any evidence.
It is clear they tried to hide and suppress information from whistleblowers about its existence.

Quite how TSR hasnt deleted angery penguin is crazy.
He will continue to promote the idea China has nothing to do with it.


Ikr social media websites ban people all the time for posting stuff under the ospice of "fake news", but they let this guy go wild.
a massive lack of critical thinking by 90% of people in this thread.

Yes the article is from a biased source...

But also - yes you can (as one actually reasonable poster did...) just google the study for youreslf and see if they are lying.

To me it seems like they are just playing up one part of the study, the fact that if it were correct, it is technically possible (if unlikely) that the virus originated elsewhere.. They aren't outright lying about the study or what it means, they are just emphasizing the bit that suits their narrative.

Still though, even if its true that its been in humans for longer then we previously knew, it was still likely within China rather than elsewhere.
Original post by Ragman75
Ikr social media websites ban people all the time for posting stuff under the ospice of "fake news", but they let this guy go wild.

What was fake about the news on this thread? It was an article about a genuine piece of research, that didn't misreport it any more than most western papers misreport scientific articles.
Original post by Rock Fan
It is time China was made accountable for their actions

great..our economy is already on its knees, lets kick it in the balls by destroying our relationship with China.
Original post by Parties
Oh, so the Chinese wet markets, with their top-tier hygiene standards, are not to blame for the existence of this Wuhan Coronavirus, okay!

Doesn't mean that the CCP isn't the main reason why the whole world is in the state it is in right now.

It doesn't really matter if it comes from China, Africa or India. Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later, and now the whole world is at the mercy of researchers and scientists to come with a vaccine asap, the very same ones that have complained about fund cuts over the last decade.
Original post by AngeryPenguin
It looks as though China was the first one to detect the pathogen, but not necessarily the origin country. Just like the Spanish Flu wasn't from Spain.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades


That's just as believable as saying that Russian Athletics dont have a state run drug problem.
Reply 26
Original post by AngeryPenguin
It looks as though China was the first one to detect the pathogen, but not necessarily the origin country. Just like the Spanish Flu wasn't from Spain.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades


Just read the link. It is just pure speculation. The article claims there may have been a Corona virus circulating long before Wuhan, that, for some reason, mutated among "small clusters of humans" But this in no way explains why this highly contagious virus apparently did not spread rapidly from those "clusters" to just about every country in the world much earlier! The" lab made" virus conspiracy argument is a desperate but absurd suggestion made by some. The more likely explanation may be to do with a lack of awareness insome parts of China regarding the undeniable fact that some viruses can jump from animals, such as bats and pigs, into humans. Perhaps all countries need to put more research effort into limiting the possibility of this happening! And a more transparent China would certainly help!
Original post by AngeryPenguin
It looks as though China was the first one to detect the pathogen, but not necessarily the origin country. Just like the Spanish Flu wasn't from Spain.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades


Tbh, I don't really care about where the virus came from, however I do worry about people who post bulls*t like this.
Reply 28
Original post by mqb2766
Tbh, I don't really care about where the virus came from, however I do worry about people who post bulls*t like this.

How do you mean? Do you mean that it is speculative or what?
Reply 29
Original post by fallen_acorns
great..our economy is already on its knees, lets kick it in the balls by destroying our relationship with China.


Really? so no need to get an explanation from secretive China regarding Wuhan? because we have a "relationship with China"?? so we just need to crack on with Corona? no need to ask questions about its origin then?
Reply 30
Original post by Yahik093
It doesn't really matter if it comes from China, Africa or India. Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later, and now the whole world is at the mercy of researchers and scientists to come with a vaccine asap, the very same ones that have complained about fund cuts over the last decade.

what has "fund cuts" got to do with the rest of your post? and at the "mercy " of researchers and scientists".What do you mean? without the intervention if these specialists the workd would be in an even bigger mess! Don't you think research and a vaccine are required? Your post is bizarre!
Original post by mgi
what has "fund cuts" got to do with the rest of your post? and at the "mercy " of researchers and scientists".What do you mean? without the intervention if these specialists the workd would be in an even bigger mess! Don't you think research and a vaccine are required? Your post is bizarre!

What I mean is totally the opposite. In the last decade (and especially since the crisis in 2008) a lot of cuts were done in healthcare and research, and now the entire world is demanding them new meds and vaccines to fight the virus. Of course I do think they are important, they have always been, it just shows how STUPID politicians are. The same happens with healthcare staff, with hca being paid minimum wage and newly qualified nurses having quite a low wage as well.

TLDR: Invest in what is necessary and vital. We were far from being ready for a pandemic like this.
Reply 32
Original post by PTMalewski
It may be propaganda, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's untrue. A couple of days ago I've heard a virologist claming people must have had contact with the virus for a long time, as new viruses kill 60 to 90% of population, not less than 10, thus it's a virus our immune systems are pretty much used to detecting and fighting.

Who is this virologist anyway? and why have yiu chosen to believe him? do you actually belive that a new virus will kill the majority of a population? what empirical evidence was put forward to support a conclusion? In fact , the majority of "new" or mutated viruses are non-infectious.
Reply 33
Original post by Yahik093
What I mean is totally the opposite. In the last decade (and especially since the crisis in 2008) a lot of cuts were done in healthcare and research, and now the entire world is demanding them new meds and vaccines to fight the virus. Of course I do think they are important, they have always been, it just shows how STUPID politicians are. The same happens with healthcare staff, with hca being paid minimum wage and newly qualified nurses having quite a low wage as well.

TLDR: Invest in what is necessary and vital. We were far from being ready for a pandemic like this.

No country in the world was ready for this pandemic! But you must have noticed by now that the country routinely puts "cuts happy" Tories in power! All of the caring professions in the UK are financially disrespected!
But this goes right to the heart of one's political beliefs, right? Why exactly should a cleaner get paid less than a nurse? and why should a nurse get paid less than a commercial lawyer?
Reply 34
Original post by mgi

But this goes right to the heart of one's political beliefs, right? Why exactly should a cleaner get paid less than a nurse? and why should a nurse get paid less than a commercial lawyer?

Because a cleaner vaccumes and a nurse helps save lives.
Because the nurse is, usually, paid by the state. If you want to see your taxes go up ten fold to pay a nurse a couple of hundred grand that's your call but i imagine most other people would take umbrage with that.
Original post by mgi
How do you mean? Do you mean that it is speculative or what?

I mean I don't really care about where it originated, but a combination of AngeryPenguin and SCMP is hardly a reliable, unbiased source.
Original post by AngeryPenguin
It looks as though China was the first one to detect the pathogen, but not necessarily the origin country. Just like the Spanish Flu wasn't from Spain.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3077442/coronavirus-pathogen-could-have-been-spreading-humans-decades


Yeah use a chinese news website. Great idea.
Reply 37
Original post by Napp
Because a cleaner vaccumes and a nurse helps save lives.
Because the nurse is, usually, paid by the state. If you want to see your taxes go up ten fold to pay a nurse a couple of hundred grand that's your call but i imagine most other people would take umbrage with that.

But that example may be a bit extreme- 200k a year nurses? And "being paid by the state" would not rule out a newly qualified nurse being paid ,say, 29k per annum would it? A newly qualified "state" solicitor would most likely get more than this figure.
Cleaners don't actually just vacuum though! Their work, as you probably realise, can be quite specialist, as in say, maintenance of cleanliness in a hospital ward or even street cleaning- 2 examples.
(edited 3 years ago)
Reply 38
Original post by mgi
But that example may be a bit extreme- 200k a year nurses? And "being paid by the state" would not rule out a newly qualified nurse being paid ,say, 29k per annum would it? A newly qualified "state" solicitor would most likely get more than this figure.
Cleaners don't actually just vacuum though! Their work, as you probably realise, can be quite specialist, as in say, maintenance of cleanliness in a hospital ward or even street cleaning- 2 examples.

Well given you're referencing corporate lawyers it wouldnt seem that extreme, although possibly slightly inflated.
They might, who can say, but given that we're generalising and you seem to be comparing state and private the example stands.
Indeed they don't but im hardly going to reference every type of cleaner now am i? Although now that you mention specialisms need one point out that certain specialties do get a higher return? Be they crime scene cleaners, hazardous substance disposal etc.

Either way, to cut out a tedious amount of back and forth, all jobs are not equal and that is reflected in their pay. It may not be fair or, arguably, right but that is life isnt it.
Reply 39
Original post by Napp
Well given you're referencing corporate lawyers it wouldnt seem that extreme, although possibly slightly inflated.
They might, who can say, but given that we're generalising and you seem to be comparing state and private the example stands.
Indeed they don't but im hardly going to reference every type of cleaner now am i? Although now that you mention specialisms need one point out that certain specialties do get a higher return? Be they crime scene cleaners, hazardous substance disposal etc.

Either way, to cut out a tedious amount of back and forth, all jobs are not equal and that is reflected in their pay. It may not be fair or, arguably, right but that is life isnt it.

You said:"...... all jobs are not equal and that is reflected in their pay. It may not be fair or, arguably, right but that is life isnt it." Indeed! Astonishingly, I actually agree with you, for a change!

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