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Oxford Demystified - Maths and Philosophy

Oxford Demystified: Maths and Philosophy
[Apologies in advance for formatting errors, I'll try to fix them...]

About me :smile:

I’ve been studying at a small state school in London. The sixth form is by no means a top school, but I’ve not had any big problems with teaching. At GCSE I got six 9’s, two 8’s and a 7 (ingrish language :s-smilie:

). At A-level I’ve studied Maths, Further Maths, Physics and History, with 4A* predicted. I have an offer to study Maths and Philosophy at Corpus Christi in 2020, counting on A*A*A (with the A*s in Maths and Further Maths).

Btw, you don’t need an essay subject to study Maths and Philosophy at Oxford - and you certainly don’t need 4 A-Levels. I picked them because at that point I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to study later.

Why Maths and Philosophy?
It wasn’t until the end of secondary that I started to consider a Maths-y type of degree. In secondary school I was so committed to humanities that the head had to force me to take triple sciences instead of 4 essay subjects, and I didn’t even have the grades for AdMaths! GCSE maths was alright, but the topics didn’t really inspire any enthusiasm for me (upper and lower bounds, anyone??). I was much more interested in RE and History, which let you tackle really thought provoking ideas even at GCSE level.

At A-Level, I quickly realised that maths is a whole lot more interesting than it seems at GCSE, and was especially drawn to the more wacky/abstract stuff like complex numbers. My maths teacher, who studied Maths and Philosophy at uni, was always pushing the spec a little bit further and asking us probing questions - was maths invented, or discovered? His enthusiasm got me curious for this course, and after a bit of research I realised it was perfect for me - A focus on the fundamentals of pure maths, aimed at really tackling those big questions on the nature of reality, and the freedom to explore other areas of Philosophy too.

Advice: “From a very early age…” seems to be the start of a lot of personal statements, but you don’t need to know what you want to study straight away. You never know when you might discover your passion - I definitely changed my mind loads of times, but it's worth it to make sure you choose a subject that’s right for you.

Why Oxford?
I was lucky enough to have been on a few trips to Oxbridge with my school over the years, but one during year 11 sticks out especially. A couple of people in my year visited a lovely Oxford college (I was very impressed by the tortoises) and spoke to some current students. Our guide told us how he had only applied to Oxford on a whim, not expecting to get in - and yet here he was, studying Medicine. As a slightly misguided year 11 student this seemed incredible - so there were normal people at Oxford after all! In year 12, I went on UNIQ Spring and I can’t understate how valuable the experience was. I realised that Oxford wasn’t full of intimidating ultra-geniuses (Though I’m sure there are a few), but people with a genuine enthusiasm for their subject and a curious mind. The lectures and workshops were challenging but fun, and I really fell in love with the city too, and the community of the college structure. I can’t stress enough how much these trips helped me realise what Oxford was really like.

In terms of the course, Oxford is one of the few unis in the UK that runs an integrated Maths and Philosophy course, with bridging modules, as opposed to just lumping it together with no links - which for me, defies the point of a Joint Honours degree! Of course, as the largest Philosophy department in the UK, you will be spoilt for choice on modules from the 2nd year onwards.

The course should really be your primary reason for choosing a university, but some other stuff that made me choose Oxford:

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MAT test for admission - More approachable than STEP (But not easy!)

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Funding - My family really don’t have the means to pick up the bill for uni, but Oxford offers £5k a year and internship opportunities + other scholarships

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Location - I live in London, so not too far away, but a nice change from big city life

Advice: I never actually went to the official open day (as I’d already visited), but definitely try to visit Oxford if at all possible. If you talk to pretty much any student you’ll realise they’re all pretty normal people! Take a wander round the city too, and you’ll really feel Oxford’s charm and history. And of course… Why not Cambridge? Well, I’ve been on residentials to both and it seems to me that they have more in common than they have differences. For me, it was simply the course (Cambridge does only straight Maths), and also avoiding the STEP test.

Resources
Now, I didn’t mention all of these in my personal statement or interview, but it gave me the confidence that I had a decently firm foundation to talk about a few areas that interest me. I was lucky that I found pretty much all this stuff through my school, but you might have to be proactive in applying to projects and doing your own research. I’m sure there’s loads of links on TSR too.

Maths books

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Ian Stewart: Does God Play Dice - Probably a common reading for Mathphil, with good reason. About chaos, some technical stuff but you’ll understand enough to realise how weird maths can be.

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Ian Stewart: From here to infinity - My fave! This guy’s a pro. All about infinity and its weirdness. I recommend “The two-and-a-halfth dimension” chapter. Plenty of stuff you can try out yourself and research more.

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Jordan Ellenburg: How not to be wrong - Paradoxes. Loads of interesting anecdotes.

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Joseph Mazur: Fluke - Statistics and chance on random events - lots of cool little anecdotes too.

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Michael Blastland and Andrew Dilnot: The Tiger that isn’t - How maths can easily be skewed by our own psychology.

Philosophy books
Any reading can build on your Philosophy so long as it gets you thinking outside the box a little. If that seems like a lot, just look at some chapters that you find cool - there’s no need to pretend you read an entire textbook when some of the topics are wayyy beyond your current knowledge. If the Philosophy stuff is overwhelming, try and find a book with lots of little bits about a variety of Philosophers - I have a good one called “From Descartes to Locke”.

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(Philosopher)Descartes: Meditations and Other Metaphysical Writings - Very readable, Descartes’ musings on the rules of reality, and what can be truly “known”. Short, but pretty much an essential read imo.

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(Philosopher) Spinoza: Ethics - Rationalism, trying to deduce rules of reality. Some stuff you might not agree with!

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(Novel) Don Quixote - Genuinely entertaining, bizarre tale of a misguided gentleman and his ridiculous assistant trying to right the world of evil.

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(Novel) War and Peace - This one speaks for itself. Be warned - veryyyy long but very readable.

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(Graphic Novel) Logicomix - a bit different, on the life and discoveries of Logician Bertrand Russel. Short.

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(Novel) 100 Years of Solitude - Magic realism, on fate and determinism. Weird but lovely.

Lectures

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All the ones I saw on UNIQ were really interesting, take a few notes in case you wanna write it in your personal statement

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Check if any unis round you are doing public lectures, I personally didn’t go but I know loads of London Unis did them for free

Competitions

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It might seem like all the people who get into Oxbridge are Gold UKMT world champions, but it doesn’t have to be too serious. I did the UKMT senior for fun and it gives you some good problem solving practice.

Residential/Workshop/Mentoring

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Try and apply to at least one uni residential. Doesn’t have to be at Oxford. I went to UNIQ, but try Sutton Trust, Target Oxbridge, and any individual uni ones.

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Did some mentoring with Lloyds Bank… wasn’t very helpful for me personally but some people I know found it helpful.

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Target Oxbridge is a programme for BME Y12/13 students - its absolutely comprehensive, from helping you choose your course to visiting Oxbridge and helping write your personal statement. Not to mention subject masterclasses, networking, and interview prep! Absolutely apply if you’re eligible, but there is a pretty tough interview phase.

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If you do apply to Oxford, try and get on a MAT preparation course. There’s a lot of flashy expensive ones out there, but I know there are at least 2 in London that were totally free (I think your teacher needs to sign you up for it) There’s a chance your school might fund classes too.

Volunteering:

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Some pretty awful work experience in year 10 - didn’t mention it haha

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Nuffield research placement in Y12 Summer - Incredible! Got to work in UCL physics dept., helped me realise I definitely want to do a Maths degree but the doors will stay open into other STEM subjects after graduating. Writing and researching the report is great prep for Uni. You have to dedicate quite a bit of time (4 weeks in summer holiday), but they pay you! One of the best things I’ve done.

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AFAB - worked with the local council to deliver presentations on religion and ethics to little primary school kids. Pretty lucky to find this one but was a lot of fun - kids have some surprisingly deep philosophy questions!

Other

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Opinion pieces in a decent broadsheet newspaper - just pushing yourself to challenge other’s ideas.

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Magazines - New scientists is good (GCSE Level I think, but there’s more advanced ones), Physics review (Yeah, physics - there’s some cool reality-bending philosophy)

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Wikipedia - You can entertain yourself for hours just clicking through interesting topics, though some maths stuff is incomprehensible

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Youtube - Numberphile, TED talks, Fermilab, Vihart

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Internet Encylopedia of Philosophy - Very reliable source, but not too academic to be unreadable

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Geogebra - This is free graphing software. With minimal IT knowledge necessary, I used it to plot fractals from the mandlebrot set and was blown away by the intricacy of the patterns it created. Really cool for your own little maths investigations.

Advice: One thing I wish I had done earlier was writing down all the stuff I did - you WILL forget it by the time October comes. Get a big word document or notebook, and just write down a little paragraph about one thing you found interesting each time you do of a super-curricular activity. Then, you can just slot a few lines neatly into your personal statement when the time comes. Also, don’t worry too much about cost. I am an extreme cheapskate, and I promise you could find more than enough resources without spending a penny! Non fiction philosophy is often free online, and if it isn’t, try the charity shop. You can pick up stuff for like 50p. Oxford can usually fund train tickets to stuff like open days if you fill out an expenses form.

Teachers
I see a lot on TSR about people with less than supportive teachers, but for me it was the other way round - I really owe it to them. My history teachers tolerated the lesson descending into philosophical discussion, and always pushed us to think about tough questions. My maths teacher was happy (I think) to help me with the MAT prep after school and look at all the weird maths I’d read about on Wikipedia. My form tutor gave me videos and magazines to read about interesting topics outside the curriculum. My physics teacher humoured me when I asked outlandish questions that would certainly never come up on the exam. Now that I think about it, I probably took up a lot of their time. But even when crunch time came in October, and I was starting to doubt myself, I knew they were behind me 100%.

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Ask your teachers if they can recommend/lend you any good books, most will be happy to help.

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Just talking to your teacher for a few minutes about an interesting maths topic, or have a mini debate

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Try and explain a cool topic to someone who doesn’t study it (Be warned, this may annoy your friends :tongue: )

Why Corpus Christi?
This was one of the colleges I visited at UNIQ spring, and I fell a little bit in love with it. It’s a small college, tucked behind the high street and backing on to the Christ Church meadow, with the river beyond that. It doesn’t have the huge immaculate grass square like some colleges, but it has lovely gardens and an even lovelier gardener. I would describe the vibe as cosy and friendly, which meant a lot to me coming from a really small school. Accommodation is also guaranteed on site for all years of study, which is good. A downside might be that you might not have many coursemates in colleges for Maths and Philosophy, as there’s only 15~20 on the course spread across the whole uni. But you have some college neighbours very close to the college - Oriel across the road and Merton next door. Tourists usually get diverted to the impressive Christ Church just round the corner too.

Personal Statement
This was probably one of the stronger parts of my application. I talked mostly about little bits of Maths I found interesting, and some of my observations on some Philosophy reading I had done. I didn’t really talk about myself/my skills per se, although we touched on this more in the teacher reference. I did mention a lot of problem solving, however. I basically looked on the Oxford website at the bit “what we are looking for” and tailored it a little around that. Remember you are applying to 4 other unis too, so I included a little bit of extra curricular stuff - like programming, writing hobby etc. But only a little.

Don’t feel pressured to make your PS fit perfectly with some formula - there isn’t one. I swear I read every single maths and philosophy personal statement I could find on TSR and the internet, and I was worried that mine didn’t sound like theirs, or wasn’t structured the same way. But it’s called a personal statement for a reason - write true to yourself, and your passions.

MAT
Right. Well, this didn’t go so well. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be prepared! Through year 12 I went on a problem solving programme at QMUL, MAT sessions at UNIQ and another MAT prep course at Imperial in the summer holiday. These were fantastic, free programmes which you should definitely take advantage of, but I might have tried to take on too much at once. In year 13 I started doing whole practise papers, and I was doing pretty well on them. The MAT is non-calculator, so I even revised my exact values, and short division… I was feeling reasonably confident.

When I actually got into the exam, I just panicked so much that I didn’t focus on the questions, and wasted valuable time. In retrospect (5 minutes after leaving the exam room) the questions were really not that bad. Maybe I was underprepared, or maybe it was just a bad day. In any case, it felt like it was over. I was crushed - you start to want something a lot more when it slips out of your hands. In the next month or so of waiting I gave up on Oxford, and didn’t bother going to interview prep (not smart!). Instead I read the reports about the average MAT scores, and felt worse reading how other people had found it easy! So to get the call to interview in December was really unexpected for me - maybe they really liked my personal statement? They wouldn’t call me up if I didn’t have a chance, right? It was a pretty uncertain time. One particularly confident guy at interview nonchalantly told me he was confident he’d got at least 90/100 on the MAT. Great.

When I got my score back after interview, I really realised what they said on the Oxford website was true. “The admissions test is just one factor in the selection process…” The average score for all applicants was 51/100. The average score for successful applicants was 76/100. Somehow, I managed to scrape by with 24/100. I thanked the generous Oxford Overlords for this strange blessing, and wondered what I’d done to deserve it. Who knows what goes on in that admissions office. :iiam:

Advice: All the past papers and solutions (I think) are on the MAT website - there is certainly time to get through all of them. This is probably the best way to prepare, as you start to see what types of question come up often. There’s only so many different ways they can ask you to do the same thing. Its all based on stuff you should know from AS level (including series summation), just applied to odd things. Don’t spend too much time on one question, and certainly don’t expect to do every single question. It’s meant to be hard.

Interview
This can be daunting, but I tried to enjoy it - talking about my subject was something I actually felt confident about. Not to mention it’s basically a free holiday in Oxford!

A few things you can do:

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Get some mock interview practise in if you can. Ask teachers if they can organise it - better if its someone you don’t know so well, like the Head. Nerves are realistic :smile:

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Anticipate questions - You probably won’t guess what academic stuff you’ll be asked, but you can prepare the general stuff. What would you ask yourself? Jot down a few notes, but there’s no point trying to memorise anything.

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Make sure you know your personal statement well. At least, don’t write about reading a book if you could not say one single thing about it if asked.

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Talk through your thoughts, even if you’re not sure it’s the right path. It’s good if you can correct your own mistakes too, but they might just tell you instead.

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I saw a couple of people rifling through maths textbooks. Tbh, I think it would make me more nervous. But it’s true that you should be familiar with your spec - ideally before you arrive for interview.

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You’re allowed to ask questions!! Sure, they might not answer, but you can ask for clarification to make sure you’re on the right track.

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Don’t talk for talking’s sake. There’s a balance between explaining your thoughts, and talking even though you have nothing to say. If you’ve finished your point, stop! You might confuse yourself if you just keep on waffling.

I actually really enjoyed the academic interviews and talking to people who were clearly so talented and knowledgable in their fields. Talking to one of the tutors, I mentioned offhand something I had read about the philosopher Pascal, and he told me all about some notes Pascal had made in the margins of his writings that were often overlooked. By the time the interview was done, It felt like the time had flown by and we could probably have kept on talking for hours. So all in all, I felt my interviews had gone well. But plenty of people get offers for Oxford who felt their interviews were disasters, and even some who didn’t get in who gloat that they got everything right. :wink:

Asides from the actual interview part, staying in college is a nice chance to meet some of your prospective coursemates. They were all thoroughly lovely people so far as I could tell. We played a lot of scrabble! I took a wander down the river Thames, which was very bizarre coming from London where it is at least 10 times as wide, and did a little Christmas shopping at Blackwells. Oh, and for your own sanity try not to discuss every minute detail of how the interviews went with your coursemates. You could even put yourself at a disadvantage if you tell people what questions come up.

Waiting…
They sure do like to build tension in the Oxbridge admissions process, and this year, it was Tuesday 14th January. Through December, I spent my time compulsively refreshing my email, reading interview horror stories on TSR, and trawling the internet to read every single Oxford admission report in the past decade. I even subjected my friends to the tortuous Oxford Admissions Quiz (Q: How many state school students were admitted to Oxford to study Classics in 2016-2018? A: 87). Clearly I had descended into hysteria. However, one good thing I did was to do some research into my other choice unis. This will really make you feel a lot better if the Oxford offer doesn’t come, and you’ll probably need a good insurance choice anyway.

On the day, I was at college taking a Physics exam or something. I had very intentionally turned off my phone and not logged onto the computer, promising myself I would check UCAS track when I got home. Unfortunately, my plans were scuppered by my stony-faced headteacher, who ominously told me “You should check track”. After I recovered from the heart attack, I logged on and had another heart attack. Thankfully I recovered, and here I am.

Future
At the moment, I’m waiting to hear a little bit more info about how admissions will work given the Coronavirus situation. On top of all the lockdown stuff, its pretty stressful for everyone hoping to go to uni in 2020. it’s well known that Oxford give out more offers than they have places, and although my course is quite small (20 offers), I’m pretty concerned about how this logistical issue is gonna be resolved. I haven’t actually firmed any unis yet, but I do know I would be happy at my other choice of uni as well, which is reassuring. To be honest, if the grade I get given in July isn’t enough for Oxford, I’ just gonna cut my losses and go to my insurance, instead of retaking in autumn. There’s not even a guarantee that the retake would give you a place until the 2021 entry cycle, and I really don’t have anything to fill my time for a whole year. Guess we’ll wait and see…

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 1

sonnyboibob

Hope that helps @Oxford Mum!

Oh, and if anyone has any questions let me know! I'd be interested to see if anyone else is considering this subject :smile:

Reply 2

gjd800

excellent, informative post. Congratulations, btw

Reply 3

flaurie

Volunteer Team

Thank you! Very informative read :yep:

Reply 4

Oxford Mum

Original post by gjd800

excellent, informative post. Congratulations, btw

I thought this would be right up your street!

Reply 5

Oxford Mum

Original post by sonnyboibob

Hope that helps @Oxford Mum!

Oh, and if anyone has any questions let me know! I'd be interested to see if anyone else is considering this subject :smile:

Does it help????? It was BRILLIANT. More comments from me later.

Reply 6

Oxford Mum

Here are more maths and philosophy resources

Maths sample interview questions:

https://sites.google.com/site/oxbridgeinterviewquestions/mathematics

This website also has recommended reading:

https://www.oxfordinterviewquestions.com/questions/mathematics/

https://www.thatoxfordgirl.com/post/2018/11/20/maths-interview

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/11/oxford-university-releases-sample-interview-questions

Philosophy questions:

http://www.oxfordinterviewquestions.com/questions/philosophy/

https://sites.google.com/site/oxbridgeinterviewquestions/philosophy

Philosophy interview youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCEJ0Li4z8

Maths interview youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28NPwyDlm8

MAT preparation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekDQFb7DPns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8pwgscp_sk

Reply 7

Oxford Mum

Oxford demystified - politics, philosophy and economics chapter

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=88072030&highlight=Oxford%20demystified%20PPE

Reply 8

IQuitTSR

yes I find math is cool...

...but can't say the same about philosophy

anyway, nice thread you have here...

Reply 9

Oxford Mum

Well, this chapter was so good I had to read it 3 times!

Must admit, my C grade at O level maths (only obtained by 6 months of private tuition) meant I wasn't looking forward to your chapter. How wrong I was!
And I thought maths was just sums...

Your enthusiasm for your subjects just screams out loud - plenty of "interestings" and "cools" here. You also like to think outside the box, which is a trait Oxford are looking for. You are organised. You take notes for your personal statement. You have a plan.

And then at the interview you were confident talking about your subject and "time had flown by". You both even had a nice time talking about Pascal!

And as for the guy who bragged he had 90% in the MAT - often these over confident people are the very ones who don't get in!!!

Now for a shout-out to the teachers at your school.

They recommended some free MAT courses (could you please provide a link?)
They stayed back after school to work with you on your application.
You "took up a lot of their time"
They answered your "outlandish" questions
They recommended and even lent you books
The were "100% behind me".

There is a special place in heaven reserved for these teachers, and you can tell them that, from me!

Yes, Oxford students are normal people, as I never tire of telling all the Oxford haters.

No, it is not prohibitively expensive and many students benefit from generous bursaries.

And guess what, Corpus Christie is THE college for tortoises! Every summer there is a Corpus tortoise fair, with tortoise merchandise, tortoise naming competitions, and more!

Those colleges who are lucky enough to have them, let their tortoises race towards some lettuce. It's a lot of silly fun!

Please see link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUC5151tB8I

I was actually at this event, standing on the hill, but you can't see me!

Reply 10

Mona123456

Loved this thread! Hopefully see you in Ox at the tortoise races! :h:

Prsom mona

Original post by Oxford Mum

Aw, thank you :colondollar:

I tried to find the MAT course I went on and Im pretty sure it was this one:

https://amsp.org.uk/events/details/5849

It seems to be fully booked for this cycle but I think it'll be running next year. AMSP has a lot of resources for people who didn't get the chance to do Further Maths at their school. They also are doing an online problem solving course covering the same content - and you can apply for a funded place:

https://amsp.org.uk/events/details/6310

For the life of me I cant remember what the other course was called :confused:

It was definetly at Imperial though... I'll have a look.

Reply 13

RainbowRebel

This was really helpful, thank you @Oxford Mum ! I was just wondering if maybe you had a chapter on the course PPL (and specifically the combination philosophy and linguistics)? It would be really helpful for my application. Thank you again!