B1570 – Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act (Repeal)

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Andrew97
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B1570 – Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act (Repeal) Bill 2020, TSR Libertarian Party


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Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act (Repeal) Bill 2020

A bill to repeal the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act 2020, which banned the smacking of children in Wales.


Having been passed by the National Assembly for Wales and having received the assent of Her Majesty, it is enacted as follows:

1: Repeal
(1) Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act 2020 is hereby repealed.

2: Extent, Commencement and Citation
(1) This Act extends to Wales
(2) The provisions of this Act come into force upon Royal Assent
(3) This Act may be cited as the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act (Repeal) Bill 2020

Notes:
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This bill repeals the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Act 2020, which was an act passed by the Welsh Assembly banning the smacking of children by parents.

This is a clear example of the ever-growing nanny state stepping into the private lives of families, and in effect ordering parents how to parent. Not only is this a clear infringement on the liberty of parents nationwide, having smacking be illegal will take up the time of already stretched police and social services, who will be flooded with trivial cases, having negative effects for all people in Wales. Regardless of personal opinions on smacking, is it really right that the state should enforce this view on all parents? Is it right that good parents could now become criminals because of this?

The Crown Prosecution Service have said that a reasonable punishment defence only works if the victim's injuries are "transient and trifling and amounted to no more than temporary reddening of the skin" Meaning that the repeal of this act does not mean parents have free reign to go beyond smacking, other laws protect children from abuse.

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username5228090
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Can somebody remind me what century we are in? Absolutely not. I cannot believe anyone would wish to support child abuse. Oh wait the Libertarians do.
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SnowMiku
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I'm completely against using smacking or any other kind of physical means to punish children full stop. There are other, completely reasonable ways of doing it. Plus, if the police being flooded with calls about illegal smacking is happening now, and is a valid reason to repeal it being illegal, then surely the media would pick up on it? Yet, nobody hears of this at all and if it was a problem, someone'd speak up about it.

I will be naying this bill.
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Miss Maddie
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(Original post by northernwomble)
Can somebody remind me what century we are in? Absolutely not. I cannot believe anyone would wish to support child abuse. Oh wait the Libertarians do.
It's not child abuse

Smacking kids is punishment. Kids would have more respect for authority. They'd do better later in life. The majority of parents, police and teachers want corporal punishment brought back
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Aph
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WHEN 👏 YOU 👏 CHANGE 👏 A 👏 BILL, 👏 LINK 👏 US 👏 TO 👏 IT!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/anaw/2...ntents/enacted
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barnetlad
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Whether or not I think it is reasonable or not, or would prefer a more precise law in Wales as to what is reasonable punishment, is neither here nor there. It is a devolved matter for the Welsh Assembly, and as such, the way to repeal it is to persuade the electorate next year to vote in AMs who will repeal or amend the law.

So on those grounds I will not support this Bill.
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username5228090
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(Original post by Miss Maddie)
It's not child abuse

Smacking kids is punishment. Kids would have more respect for authority. They'd do better later in life. The majority of parents, police and teachers want corporal punishment brought back
1) It's abuse hun. Just because it might have happened to you and you 'turned out ok'. It's abuse.

2) Please stop with the pathetic sweeping statements. What evidence do you have?

Either way, a firm no.
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Aph
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(Original post by barnetlad)
Whether or not I think it is reasonable or not, or would prefer a more precise law in Wales as to what is reasonable punishment, is neither here nor there. It is a devolved matter for the Welsh Assembly, and as such, the way to repeal it is to persuade the electorate next year to vote in AMs who will repeal or amend the law.

So on those grounds I will not support this Bill.
But cannon amendment allows TSR to act as the devolved bodies too? This is clearly an act asking you vote as a member of the senedd.
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The Mogg
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(Original post by Aph)
WHEN 👏 YOU 👏 CHANGE 👏 A 👏 BILL, 👏 LINK 👏 US 👏 TO 👏 IT!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/anaw/2...ntents/enacted
Although I apologise for not linking it, it's really not that hard to google it as you've shown yourself. Don't 👏 be 👏 so 👏 dramatic.
(Original post by SnowMiku)
I'm completely against using smacking or any other kind of physical means to punish children full stop. There are other, completely reasonable ways of doing it. Plus, if the police being flooded with calls about illegal smacking is happening now, and is a valid reason to repeal it being illegal, then surely the media would pick up on it? Yet, nobody hears of this at all and if it was a problem, someone'd speak up about it.

I will be naying this bill.
With respect, that is all well and good, but why should this method of parenting be forced upon all parents by law, making parents who use smacking criminals. As per the CPS, reasonable punishment defence only works if the victim's injuries are "transient and trifling and amounted to no more than temporary reddening of the skin" It's not like the repeal of this act all of a sudden gives parents the power to cause bruising or worse.
(Original post by barnetlad)
Whether or not I think it is reasonable or not, or would prefer a more precise law in Wales as to what is reasonable punishment, is neither here nor there. It is a devolved matter for the Welsh Assembly, and as such, the way to repeal it is to persuade the electorate next year to vote in AMs who will repeal or amend the law.

So on those grounds I will not support this Bill.
I was debating whether to add an all-caps section of the notes saying "JESUS CHRIST GUYS, CANON AMENDMENT, CHILL WITH THE DEVOLUTION POINT" but I assumed after previous innings that it wouldn't be needed, evidently not the case. Ignoring that, I feel like people will be voting next year based on much more than simply smacking.
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The Mogg
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(Original post by northernwomble)
1) It's abuse hun. Just because it might have happened to you and you 'turned out ok'. It's abuse.

2) Please stop with the pathetic sweeping statements. What evidence do you have?

Either way, a firm no.
It's barely abuse, smacking really isn't worth police time, nor is it worth imposing punishment on parents who use such methods.
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Aph
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(Original post by The Mogg)
Although I apologise for not linking it, it's really not that hard to google it as you've shown yourself. Don't 👏 be 👏 so 👏 dramatic.
Although it’s easy it’s just good manners.


As for the bill. I take the view that a child is not the parents property. Whilst a child does not have complete autonomy, because they cannot be given so, I believe that it is wrong to smack a child. Say, for instance, you have a 30 year old who has the cognitive ability of a 5 year old. Is it okay to smack them when they misbehave? What about an 80 year old with dementia? I’d tend to say no.

Given that the only reason we limit children is their cognitive abilities, if you cannot inflict corporal punishment on the mentally impaired you should not be able to inflict it on children. If the Libertarians bring back this bill to also allow the slapping of 80 year olds with dementia, I would look at it again as it would address the inconsistency in the law.
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Saracen's Fez
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As we're in the bilingual Senedd, my contributions in this debate will be in Welsh:

Er mwyn ateb y cwestiwn yn y nodiadau, mae'n hollol wir bod y llywodraeth yn gorfodi rhieni i gymryd y safbwynt yma. Yn fwy na hynny, mae'n ddyletswydd ar y llywodraeth i gymryd y safbwynt yna er mwyn amddiffyn pob Cymro a Chymraes rhag ymosodiadau.

Hefyd dydy'r Ddeddf wreiddiol ddim yn dod i rym tan 2022, felly wnawn i weld hi mewn grym cyn mynegi barn un ffordd neu'r llall ar os mae'n ddeddfwriaeth dda neu ddim.

Simultaneous translation

To answer the question in the notes, it is absolutely right that the state enforce this view on all parents. More than that, it is the duty of the state to enforce such a view so as to protect all Welsh citizens from assault.

Also the original Act doesn't even come into effect until 2022, so let's actually see it in action before passing judgement on whether it's an effective piece of legislation.
Last edited by Saracen's Fez; 7 months ago
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barnetlad
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Diolch/thank you Saracen's Fez for explaining when the legislation takes effect. This allows the new Assembly to repeal it before it takes effect, should they wish.
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JMR2020.
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No, it is not acceptable for a grown adult to smack a defenceless child. It also causes lower self esteem in the child, and is a poor way of discipling regardless.
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BosslyGaming
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(Original post by Miss Maddie)
It's not child abuse

Smacking kids is punishment. Kids would have more respect for authority. They'd do better later in life. The majority of parents, police and teachers want corporal punishment brought back
Evidence?

Physical punishment is assault and child abuse. This is an absolute no for me.
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Cabin19
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I believe the consequences of smacking children is lower confidence, low self esteem, less ability to share their ideas later in life and simply just makes a child shy. Something we don't want
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CatusStarbright
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No. Good parents should not need to resort to violence to exert their will. Children should not have to suffer violence in the home, and hitting children most certainly is an act of violence, no matter the intention.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Aph)
WHEN 👏 YOU 👏 CHANGE 👏 A 👏 BILL, 👏 LINK 👏 US 👏 TO 👏 IT!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/anaw/2...ntents/enacted
Hear hear. That is what I do when I write a Bill.
(Original post by barnetlad)
Whether or not I think it is reasonable or not, or would prefer a more precise law in Wales as to what is reasonable punishment, is neither here nor there. It is a devolved matter for the Welsh Assembly, and as such, the way to repeal it is to persuade the electorate next year to vote in AMs who will repeal or amend the law.

So on those grounds I will not support this Bill.
Rydych chi'n gwybod ein bod ni yng Senedd? Wedi'r cyfan, mae arfbais Cymru ar y brig yn y Bil hwn.
(you do know we're in the Welsh Assembly? After all, this Bill does have the Welsh coat of arms at the top.)
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username2998742
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Child abuse
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Rakas21
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Mr Speaker, as the act is an improvement (law surrounding child abuse already exists) i shall vote Aye however i would prefer to remove the power from the Welsh Assembly entirely.
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