Renting - HMO licensing occupancy limit

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Anonymous370
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Hi,

I live in a flat, which according to the HMO licensing, is for a maximum occupancy of 5. What if there have been 6 people here ? Illegal isn't it, right ?

There used to be less, but a very :mad::mad::mad:horrible couple entered back in like Oct/Nov on what should've been on a temporary basis but because of this Covid situation their leaving/eviction is being delayed (from April-end until who knows when now). Also, due to a landlord change, a new landlord/investor was gonna come, just before lockdown, for viewing but this similarly has been delayed. It feels like too many with 6 here, and unfortunately the horrible couple have no manners whatsoever, e.g. normally (away from this Covid situation) would bring in multiple visitors Daily, seriously:mad:. Hence why I'd be keen to see em leave ASAP, but I doubt they'll get out anytime soon bcos of Covid and I think there's a ban on evictions by Government as a result etc. Aside, a nice, fantastic flatmate is sadly leaving next month as she can't cope with the horrible couple anymore, which in itself will of course bring down occupancy to 5.

But still I'm interested in knowing what really happens to the agency/landlord that has been doing this illegal business of having 6 tenants here in the flat despite legal maximum seems to be 5. If I report it, then what exactly happens to agency/landlord ? If a penalty, then is there any chance they could ask us current/Perm tenants to pay for up for this due to "loss of liquidity" from HMO licensing moving out/evicting the couple immediately ? Any risk for us ? Who do you even report to ? How's it like ?

Thanks
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londonmyst
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A couple are usually held to be part of one family and are counted as one.

Where the HMO quantity is exceeded the local council usually get involved to determine whether the breach is accidental, assist the landlord/agent with advice on how to comply with the maximum number and legally enforce if remedial action is not voluntarily undertaken to comply with the HMO conditions.
Landlords and agents who deliberately flout HMO rules, refuse to remedy the situation or do both- can be fined, taken to court and in extreme circumstances legally prevented from managing and renting out properties in the future.
Tenants cannot be held liable for their landlord's illegal conduct or forced to pay fines that the court orders be paid by the landlord/agents.
Last edited by londonmyst; 7 months ago
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Anonymous370
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(Original post by londonmyst)
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Thanks. Also, am I correct in saying that with (private) renting generally in current situation, therez no rent break and we're meant to pay the full rent bill as standard ? Thanks.
Last edited by Anonymous370; 7 months ago
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Anonymous370)
Thanks. Also, am I correct in saying that with (private) renting generally in current situation, therez no rent break and we're meant to pay the full rent bill as standard ? Thanks.
Yes.
Although renters-landlords can reach an agreement to end the tenancy early or defer rental payments due to the current situation and landlords can't evict tenants for three months.
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Anonymous370
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(Original post by londonmyst)
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Thanks. I'm just continuing my rental payments as usual thanks to savings to keep me going despite no job.

I've got a q regarding taking up UC/benefits. How much max savings can someone have and still claim UC ? Is it £16k ? So if someone's got any more than that amount, then they can't claim UC. Is there a max savings cap like that ? If so, any idea what it is ? Also, at what savings amount would you suggest one to claim UC given current situation and that UC generally isn't enough to cover the full rent ? Thanks.
Last edited by Anonymous370; 7 months ago
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Anonymous370)
Thanks. I'm just continuing my rental payments as usual thanks to savings to keep me going despite no job.

I've got a q regarding taking up UC/benefits. How much max savings can someone have and still claim UC ? Is it £16k ? So if someone's got any more than that amount, then they can't claim UC. Is there a max savings cap like that ? If so, any idea what it is ? Also, at what savings amount would you suggest one to claim UC given current situation and that UC generally isn't enough to cover the full rent ? Thanks.
If you have cash savings or investments above £16,000 you will not be eligible for Universal Credit.
If you have savings/investments above £6,000, this will be taken into account and your maximum amount of universal credit may be reduced or capped.
If you have less than £5599 in combined savings and investments, have no monthly income, are single, under state pension age and are not registered as a full time student- apply for UC as soon as possible.

There are extra components of UC that take into account housing costs, children, childcare and disability.
You can get an estimate of how much UC you may be allocated based on your circumstances here: https://www.entitledto.co.uk
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Anonymous370
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(Original post by londonmyst)
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Thanks for that, helpful. PRSOM.
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Anonymous370
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V useful link. Thanks again.

I wanted to ask, when I go back to Work after this Coronavirus situation clears up, then I will of course have to pay Income Tax and NI in deductions like before. I've never claimed benefits before. If I claim now, then afterwards when I go to Work/Job, won't my deductions be even higher than they would've been if I didn't now claim benefits ? If so, how much higher are they ? Thanks.
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ANM775
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(Original post by londonmyst)
A couple are usually held to be part of one family and are counted as one.

Where the HMO quantity is exceeded the local council usually get involved to determine whether the breach is accidental, assist the landlord/agent with advice on how to comply with the maximum number and legally enforce if remedial action is not voluntarily undertaken to comply with the HMO conditions.
Landlords and agents who deliberately flout HMO rules, refuse to remedy the situation or do both- can be fined, taken to court and in extreme circumstances legally prevented from managing and renting out properties in the future.
Tenants cannot be held liable for their landlord's illegal conduct or forced to pay fines that the court orders be paid by the landlord/agents.
That's ******ed imo, who would most people rather share a house with, 4 other singles, or 8 other people [couples]

if the house is meant for 5 and you've got 10 living there [due to couples], you're going to run out of fridge space, cupboard space, you won't be able to sit and watch tv much. queues for the bathroom will be like queues to get into supermarkets

..it just makes for a sh*tty living experience.

on my last day in a flatshare i once lived in the landlord moved in a lesbian couple. the place was feeling pretty cramped now, and there was less fridge/cupboard space ...etc

when i was leaving the landlord again was letting some couples look at my room.
the rest of the housemates were really not happy that another couple could move in.

a couple is not the same as one person, and any offical body who classes it like that should be flogged!
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londonmyst
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(Original post by ANM775)
That's ******ed imo, who would most people rather share a house with, 4 other singles, or 8 other people [couples]

if the house is meant for 5 and you've got 10 living there [due to couples], you're going to run out of fridge space, cupboard space, you won't be able to sit and watch tv much. queues for the bathroom will be like queues to get into supermarkets

..it just makes for a sh*tty living experience.

on my last day in a flatshare i once lived in the landlord moved in a lesbian couple. the place was feeling pretty cramped now, and there was less fridge/cupboard space ...etc

when i was leaving the landlord again was letting some couples look at my room.
the rest of the housemates were really not happy that another couple could move in.

a couple is not the same as one person, and any offical body who classes it like that should be flogged!
Helps landlords maximise their income per room and local councils keep the numbers on their 'waiting for housing' lists comparatively lower.

I used to live in a houseshare with four couples, a single woman and their 6 dogs who detested each other.
One dog was very loud during the night and a drooling wanderer during the day.
Two stole everyone's clothing, another dog wanted to live in the bathroom and would only leave reluctantly for exercise & meals.
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ANM775
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Helps landlords maximise their income per room and local councils keep the numbers on their 'waiting for housing' lists comparatively lower.

I used to live in a houseshare with four couples, a single woman and their 6 dogs who detested each other.
One dog was very loud during the night and a drooling wanderer during the day.
Two stole everyone's clothing, another dog wanted to live in the bathroom and would only leave reluctantly for exercise & meals.
I couldn't cope with that. If the 9 people didn't drive me mad, the 6 dogs would.


tell me you at least had 2 bathrooms?

Yes landlords are very greedy, and just don't care. All they see is the money and don't really give a toss about living space/conditions
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Anonymous370)
V useful link. Thanks again.

I wanted to ask, when I go back to Work after this Coronavirus situation clears up, then I will of course have to pay Income Tax and NI in deductions like before. I've never claimed benefits before. If I claim now, then afterwards when I go to Work/Job, won't my deductions be even higher than they would've been if I didn't now claim benefits ? If so, how much higher are they ? Thanks.
It depends on how much you earn over the tax year, whether you work full time and how often you are paid.
Welfare income is usually below personal allowance levels.
NI only applies to people under state pension age earning above the weekly thresholds and can be reclaimed by low earners/students working part time under some circumstances.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by ANM775)
I couldn't cope with that. If the 9 people didn't drive me mad, the 6 dogs would.


tell me you at least had 2 bathrooms?
Alas only one bathroom and one outside toilet from the 1920s.
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ANM775
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Alas only one bathroom and one outside toilet from the 1920s.
:eek:

Your landlord need to be shot tbh

when i rented mine had 2 bathrooms, and even with 6 people the conditions were too cramped due to kitchen/living room space.

how were you storing your food with so much people there?
people must be storing it under their beds or linen baskets or something because there's no way the cupboards and fridge are gonna hold enough for 10 people in a house that hasn't even got 2 bathrooms..

the 6 dogs food probably took up it's fair share of space as well....
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londonmyst
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(Original post by ANM775)
:eek:

Your landlord need to be shot tbh

when i rented mine had 2 bathrooms, and even with 6 people the conditions were too cramped due to kitchen/living room space.

how were you storing your food with so much people there?
people must be storing it under their beds or linen baskets or something because there's no way the cupboards and fridge are gonna hold enough for 10 people in a house that hasn't even got 2 bathrooms..

the 6 dogs food probably took up it's fair share of space as well....
That wasn't my worst London landlord experience.
Although the constant theft of groceries, cutlery, kitchen supplies and my new toaster that could also cook eggs was very annoying.

Shared kitchen with numbered cupboards for each room, second fridge in the living room, at least two mini-fridges in every bedroom.
Food labels on everything, yet constant food and drink thefts by at least three nifty fingered tenants- who I witnessed brazenly helping themselves.
I got lumbered with cleaning the kitchen and doing almost all the cooking.
I'll never share a kitchen or bathroom with other tenants again, no matter how much extra I have to pay to live alone. :grumble:
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Anonymous370
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Agree, the talking or even fighting with couples makes it even worse, it's absolutely horrible if there's fighting or a crybaby involved. They're a real toll, messing up living conditions/experience. Singles only is best.

But the thread/OP is about HMO licensing occupancy - they regard a couple as one, which is silly and makes no sense at all, but what can you do ? Currently, a (horrible) couple here and 4 singles, so although that's obviously 6 as couple is 2, for HMO licensing the occupancy counts as 5. Maximum occupancy here is 5, see OP, so it's pretty tight, especially due to the couple. A single is moving out next month regardless of Covid as she can't put up with the couple anymore. The couple after Covid should hopefully get evicted and kicked out, based on me and her (who's leaving) complaining enough on the couple, fingers crossed, actually they were told to move out by April-end but this Covid delayed it:mad::mad::mad: and pretty much screwed up everything for everyone at everywhere.
(Original post by ANM775)
That's ******ed imo, who would most people rather share a house with, 4 other singles, or 8 other people [couples]

if the house is meant for 5 and you've got 10 living there [due to couples], you're going to run out of fridge space, cupboard space, you won't be able to sit and watch tv much. queues for the bathroom will be like queues to get into supermarkets

..it just makes for a sh*tty living experience.

on my last day in a flatshare i once lived in the landlord moved in a lesbian couple. the place was feeling pretty cramped now, and there was less fridge/cupboard space ...etc

when i was leaving the landlord again was letting some couples look at my room.
the rest of the housemates were really not happy that another couple could move in.

a couple is not the same as one person, and any offical body who classes it like that should be flogged!
(Original post by londonmyst)
Helps landlords maximise their income per room and local councils keep the numbers on their 'waiting for housing' lists comparatively lower.

I used to live in a houseshare with four couples, a single woman and their 6 dogs who detested each other.
One dog was very loud during the night and a drooling wanderer during the day.
Two stole everyone's clothing, another dog wanted to live in the bathroom and would only leave reluctantly for exercise & meals.
Omg, unbelievable. I can't even imagine how hard life it just be:eek:.
(Original post by londonmyst)
Alas only one bathroom and one outside toilet from the 1920s.
:eek:So true. There is the feeling of too many people in the flat here currently in all honesty, the lady leaving said so as well. Although there are 3 fridges here (2 got freezer with em) alongside 2 bathrooms and a separate toilet. I genuinely can't even imagine how it'd work out at all without 2 bathrooms mate, no clue.

I can give you a genius tip with kitchen/shelf space - when someone moves out take their shelf space and then when the new person/substitute moves in, offer to em like only half of that space, and even then only if they've not already been allocated some space already - point is to ONLY offer space IF they request, otherwise be quiet, take it and relish it...:rolleyes::cool: we all ❤️Love eating❤️...
(Original post by ANM775)
:eek:

Your landlord need to be shot tbh

when i rented mine had 2 bathrooms, and even with 6 people the conditions were too cramped due to kitchen/living room space.

how were you storing your food with so much people there?
people must be storing it under their beds or linen baskets or something because there's no way the cupboards and fridge are gonna hold enough for 10 people in a house that hasn't even got 2 bathrooms..

the 6 dogs food probably took up it's fair share of space as well....
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