Olivertvs
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Hi all,

I am torn between KCL and CASS for business management. Which should I pick? Some points below
CASS - 4 year course with option for study abroad/work experience.
KCL - 3 year course

I am studying IB and I am predicted 39 points and should achieve that. Both universities require 35 points.

I am lost and need guidance please can you guys help with pros and cons I will be for ever grateful.
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Tredoltle
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Please, please, please avoid City. Whilst cass is a well reputed business school, the University absolutely brings its credentials down. I highly advise you to go for King's
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username5242100
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Kings college is really good in terms of future employment prospects, especially if you are looking to go into IB or finance ....
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Olivertvs
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(Original post by Tredoltle)
Please, please, please avoid City. Whilst cass is a well reputed business school, the University absolutely brings its credentials down. I highly advise you to go for King'
Can you elaborate ?
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Tredoltle
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(Original post by Olivertvs)
Can you elaborate ?
City runs like Arsenal. Maybe worse since Arsenal is still in the Premier league. Think of City's management as Bury, Portsmouth and Arsenal combined.

It's hard to explain, but if you're a student who actually wants to do well academically, you'll experience frustrations on a different level

The league tables reflect this. City was ~35-40th in the UK tables when I joined, with the guardian once placing them in the top 20 soon after. Then, some questionable decisions made them drop to ~80th, and wherever they are now.
An example of a questionable decision they made was making the first year of engineering common, regardless of whether you're a biomedical, civil, or electrical. They also removed Physics as a requirement to study engineering, and lowered entry requirements. The students you see, albeit not all, are of extremely low quality, and their laziness is frankly toxic for students who wish to do well.

Good professors are leaving due to their frustrations and opinions not being taken seriously, and they are not being replaced.

Bullying amongst academics is common, but no actions have been taken.

I know of someone in a teaching role who's having inappropriate relations with a first year student, which is apparently also common but doesn't get dealt with.

The visa team gave me multiple wrong information, which if I was a typical international student of no knowledge of the UK system, I definitely would have been forced to leave the country by the university.

There are more, but I'll leave it at that.
Cass is a good business school, dont get me wrong. But I wouldn't want anyone half decent academically to end up here.
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ppapanastasiou
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I disagree with this statement. What makes a good university is a factor of many things but mainly two of them are the most important, research and the quality of the students it produces.

Now City became in 2016 a college of the university of London (UoL) due to improved research ratings. The fact that City is now part of the prestigious UoL shows that at least it has some reputation (I admit not all colleges of UoL are well renowned like LSE and UCL, but you would not call Queen Mary and Birkbeck crap either).

In the latest research ranking tables from 2014 (REF 2014) City came 49th out of 128 institutions and 7th in Business and Management out of 101 institutions that submitted. Kings came 7th and 14th respectively. So yes when seen overall Kings is better in terms of research but when you look at Business and Management City is better.

The Research Excellence Framework (REF) is the successor to the Research Assessment Exercise (RAE). It is an impact evaluation which assesses the research of British higher education institutions. REF is undertaken by the four UK higher education funding bodies. So one can see it as an official kind of "ranking table" by the UK government on which research funds are allocated.

In terms of entry criteria most undergraduate courses require 35 IB points (note that I use IB points because they are fine scaled and easy to compare) this is at par with places like Durham and Kings College. Also if you want to do a MSc Cass Business School requires a 2:1 and above to be accepted.

In many rankings such as the Financial times rankings and the Efinancialcareers rankings Cass ranks very highly.

So overall City is a solid UK university, a plate glass university which is now a constituent college of the University of London and its business school Cass enjoys world class reputation.

As to your question what is better Kings or Cass I would say they are both very good. They are both colleges of the University of London. Kings has a better overall reputation but when it comes to Finance and Business related subjects Cass enjoys a superb reputation.
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Tredoltle
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(Original post by ppapanastasiou)
I disagree with this statement. What makes a good university is a factor of many things but mainly two of them are the most important, research and the quality of the students it produces.

Now City became in 2016 a college of the university of London (UoL) due to improved research ratings. The fact that City is now part of the prestigious UoL shows that at least it has some reputation (I admit not all colleges of UoL are well renowned like LSE and UCL, but you would not call Queen Mary and Birkbeck crap either).

In the latest research ranking tables from 2014 (REF 2014) City came 49th out of 128 institutions and 7th in Business and Management out of 101 institutions that submitted. Kings came 7th and 14th respectively. So yes when seen overall Kings is better in terms of research but when you look at Business and Management City is better.

The Research Excellence Framework (REF) is the successor to the Research Assessment Exercise (RAE). It is an impact evaluation which assesses the research of British higher education institutions. REF is undertaken by the four UK higher education funding bodies. So one can see it as an official kind of "ranking table" by the UK government on which research funds are allocated.

In terms of entry criteria most undergraduate courses require 35 IB points (note that I use IB points because they are fine scaled and easy to compare) this is at par with places like Durham and Kings College. Also if you want to do a MSc Cass Business School requires a 2:1 and above to be accepted.

In many rankings such as the Financial times rankings and the Efinancialcareers rankings Cass ranks very highly.

So overall City is a solid UK university, a plate glass university which is now a constituent college of the University of London and its business school Cass enjoys world class reputation.

As to your question what is better Kings or Cass I would say they are both very good. They are both colleges of the University of London. Kings has a better overall reputation but when it comes to Finance and Business related subjects Cass enjoys a superb reputation.
The 2014 REF was done before the new management structure at City. There's a reason why the best professors are leaving the institution, along with their research, and thus why City has been doing awful in the league tables post-2015.
City's research is not bad, but it is absolutely tainted by their management, and subsequently the quality of new students and some of the remaining staff. I say this as a current student who joined in 2015 when the reputation was still acceptable and saw the changes myself - some of the points I made in my previous statement in my view is an utter disgrace

I do not completely disagree with your statement there - Cass is a great business school. However, I just cannot recommend City, and thus Cass, when KCL is on the table.
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by Tredoltle)
The 2014 REF was done before the new management structure at City. There's a reason why the best professors are leaving the institution, along with their research, and thus why City has been doing awful in the league tables post-2015.
City's research is not bad, but it is absolutely tainted by their management, and subsequently the quality of new students and some of the remaining staff. I say this as a current student who joined in 2015 when the reputation was still acceptable and saw the changes myself - some of the points I made in my previous statement in my view is an utter disgrace

I do not completely disagree with your statement there - Cass is a great business school. However, I just cannot recommend City, and thus Cass, when KCL is on the table.
I did my Masters at Cass and a good friend of mine is professor (Reader to be exact) there.

When I talk to him he says to me how great they are doing and how they managed lately at Cass and the economics department of City (which is not part of Cass business school) to attract good people who do excellent research.

So unless you are mentioning other departments I can assure you that this does not apply to Cass Business School and the Economics department. I have no knowledge as to what happens really in other departments of City.

As I stated previously for any other degree I would also prefer Kings to City but when it comes to finance and business subjects Cass has in my opinion a better reputation.

If that was not the case the entry requirements at Cass would be lower than Kings which is not the case both at undergraduate lever (usually 35 IB points) as well at postgraduate level 2:1 and above.
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Tredoltle
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(Original post by ppapanastasiou)
I did my Masters at Cass and a good friend of mine is professor (Reader to be exact) there.

When I talk to him he says to me how great they are doing and how they managed lately at Cass and the economics department of City (which is not part of Cass business school) to attract good people who do excellent research.

So unless you are mentioning other departments I can assure you that this does not apply to Cass Business School and the Economics department. I have no knowledge as to what happens really in other departments of City.

As I stated previously for any other degree I would also prefer Kings to City but when it comes to finance and business subjects Cass has in my opinion a better reputation.

If that was not the case the entry requirements at Cass would be lower than Kings which is not the case both at undergraduate lever (usually 35 IB points) as well at postgraduate level 2:1 and above.
Now if you did a master's there then certainly that's a different story, as you will rarely be associated with City! You were based at the Cass building near moorgate right?
For the undergrads however, even if they're at Cass, they will be based at the main City campus, where the problems are abundant, even if they're not department related (Eg. Insanely racist students)
Well, I do not speak for all students though. Lots of them like it there (:
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by Tredoltle)
Now if you did a master's there then certainly that's a different story, as you will rarely be associated with City! You were based at the Cass building near moorgate right?
For the undergrads however, even if they're at Cass, they will be based at the main City campus, where the problems are abundant, even if they're not department related (Eg. Insanely racist students)
Well, I do not speak for all students though. Lots of them like it there (:
I have never denied that I did my MSc in Mathematical Finance at Cass you can easily find this information from my previous posts. By the way when I applied for my masters I got accepted to both Kings, Birkbeck and City. I chose City in the end for the above mentioned reasons.

I admit that maybe this does not make me completely impartial but I also did my undergraduate at a well respected university and I would not recommend going there to do a masters in a finance related subject, even though I studied there also and even though the university has overall very good reputation.

Yes I was based at the Cass building close to Moorgate.

For the undergraduate students most of the teaching takes place at the main City Campus building which is at Northampton Square and some at the Cass building at Moorgate. I still do not see how this is relevant though to the quality of the staff since it is the same finance and business school department that teach the undergraduate students . Apart from being taught in older buildings I fail to see how this is relevant.

As for the insanely racist students I have never experienced anything like that (although a few times we also got taught for some electives at Northampton Square) so no idea what you are talking about and I have never heard anything like that.

Bottom line is that entry criteria illustrate my point very nicely. Both Kings and Cass have similar entry criteria for undergraduates (35 IB points) and similar for postgraduate, 2:1 and above. Given that both institutions are colleges of the university of London and given that Cass is a well renowned business school I would say that they are roughly equal with a slight advantage towards Cass since it specializes in finance.
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Tredoltle
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(Original post by ppapanastasiou)
I have never denied that I did my MSc in Mathematical Finance at Cass you can easily find this information from my previous posts. By the way when I applied for my masters I got accepted to both Kings, Birkbeck and City. I chose City in the end for the above mentioned reasons.

I admit that maybe this does not make me completely impartial but I also did my undergraduate at a well respected university and I would not recommend going there to do a masters in a finance related subject, even though I studied there also and even though the university has overall very good reputation.

Yes I was based at the Cass building close to Moorgate.

For the undergraduate students most of the teaching takes place at the main City Campus building which is at Northampton Square and some at the Cass building at Moorgate. I still do not see how this is relevant though to the quality of the staff since it is the same finance and business school department that teach the undergraduate students . Apart from being taught in older buildings I fail to see how this is relevant.

As for the insanely racist students I have never experienced anything like that (although a few times we also got taught for some electives at Northampton Square) so no idea what you are talking about and I have never heard anything like that.

Bottom line is that entry criteria illustrate my point very nicely. Both Kings and Cass have similar entry criteria for undergraduates (35 IB points) and similar for postgraduate, 2:1 and above. Given that both institutions are colleges of the university of London and given that Cass is a well renowned business school I would say that they are roughly equal with a slight advantage towards Cass since it specializes in finance.
I never said you didn't do an MSc at cass in moorgate , I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.
As a current student at City and someone who was heavily involved in the cass consultancy events, I am informing the OP of my personal experiences and what I've witnessed.
As a student rep and someone who's been liaising directly with various staff, heard from them directly of the malpractice at City, the lack of management, experienced the misinformed decisions from City's admin, bullying, etc, and as someone who's experienced the on campus racism, I am sharing my experiences and why I cannot recommend City for undergraduate studies.
I never said your point was invalid and thus, it's quite bad for you to say that you have no idea what I'm talking about.
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by Tredoltle)
I never said you didn't do an MSc at cass in moorgate , I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.
As a current student at City and someone who was heavily involved in the cass consultancy events, I am informing the OP of my personal experiences and what I've witnessed.
As a student rep and someone who's been liaising directly with various staff, heard from them directly of the malpractice at City, the lack of management, experienced the misinformed decisions from City's admin, bullying, etc, and as someone who's experienced the on campus racism, I am sharing my experiences and why I cannot recommend City for undergraduate studies.
I never said your point was invalid and thus, it's quite bad for you to say that you have no idea what I'm talking about.
I never said you has no idea what you are talking about. If in any way I implied this I apologize.

I also re-read your sentence "Now if you did a master's there then certainly that's a different story, as you will rarely be associated with City!" and indeed you are right I misunderstood you. You meant to say that because I was at Cass I rarely had to go the main building of City at Northampton square. Yes I can confirm that but I did have a few elective courses there (so not completely alien to me).

However, similar to you I am just giving my personal opinion. The title of the thread is Kings vs Cass and in particular finance related subjects. It does not say Kings vs City in general.

As a City/Cass alumni I strongly recommend Cass Business School, be it for undergraduate (had many friends who did their Bachelor there and they were very happy) or for postgraduate (which I have direct experience). Cass Business school is definitely one of the top UK business schools and it is the flagship department of City. The fact that City is medium ranked is in my eyes irrelevant since the title of the thread is Kings vs Cass. Loughborough is also medium ranked but when it comes to sports it is one of the best unis in the UK.

Many other colleges of the university of London, similar to City, are also medium ranked such as: SOAS, Goldsmiths, Birkbeck and maybe even Queen Mary. But for development economics SOAS is one of the best, for Anthropology Goldsmiths is superb, for quantitative economics Birkbeck enjoys an excellent reputation and for Economics Queen Mary is definitely a very good uni.

I guess what I am trying to say is that when choosing a university what matters is definitely the overall reputation for the university but also its strengths and where it specializes. City definitely specializes in business and finance related subjects and Cass is a well respected UK business school.
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thereforff
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hi, i am currently deciding on my undergrad uni choice as well. I am considering Cass Business School as one of my choices. Can you please give more details about bullying. Is it really a huge problem in the university. How about the gender-eqality questions, do women feel safe on the campus overall?
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by thereforff)
hi, i am currently deciding on my undergrad uni choice as well. I am considering Cass Business School as one of my choices. Can you please give more details about bullying. Is it really a huge problem in the university. How about the gender-eqality questions, do women feel safe on the campus overall?
I can only talk from personal experience. I never got bullied at Cass nor have I ever heard anything there about bullying. Cass is a reputable business school and I have only positive things to say.
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Tredoltle
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(Original post by thereforff)
hi, i am currently deciding on my undergrad uni choice as well. I am considering Cass Business School as one of my choices. Can you please give more details about bullying. Is it really a huge problem in the university. How about the gender-eqality questions, do women feel safe on the campus overall?
It's not a 'huge problem' at the university; I was just giving some of my experiences as a student rep, who is in contact with various professors, who talks to various year groups, is part of the executive committee meetings, etc.
I am yet to hear from girls complain about feeling unsafe at the university so in terms of gender, it seems fine.
There are many cases of bullying amonst staff and racism on campus, some of which are confidential, so I won't post specifics here, but nonetheless it's not exactly a great environment to be in. However, I must mention that City is not a university that I may be making it out to be. You're not going to be bullied as soon as you step in the building!

If you're smart enough to be enrolled into Cass, my personal advice is to go to a better university. Whilst Cass is great, its undergraduate studies is based at City's main campus, where you'll mix with a lot of low quality students
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by Tredoltle)
It's not a 'huge problem' at the university; I was just giving some of my experiences as a student rep, who is in contact with various professors, who talks to various year groups, is part of the executive committee meetings, etc.
I am yet to hear from girls complain about feeling unsafe at the university so in terms of gender, it seems fine.
There are many cases of bullying amonst staff and racism on campus, some of which are confidential, so I won't post specifics here, but nonetheless it's not exactly a great environment to be in. However, I must mention that City is not a university that I may be making it out to be. You're not going to be bullied as soon as you step in the building!

If you're smart enough to be enrolled into Cass, my personal advice is to go to a better university. Whilst Cass is great, its undergraduate studies is based at City's main campus, where you'll mix with a lot of low quality students
Of the few criteria one can use to define the quality of students in a course is the entry criteria. City is a college of the university of London, being part of UoL ensures some minimum entry requirements.

For economics City requires 30 IB points for Mathematics and Finance 33 and for all undergraduate degrees at Cass a minimum of 35 IB points. I would not call students in the range of 30-35 IB points low quality. I would actually call them medium to high quality.
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Tredoltle
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(Original post by ppapanastasiou)
Of the few criteria one can use to define the quality of students in a course is the entry criteria. City is a college of the university of London, being part of UoL ensures some minimum entry requirements.

For economics City requires 30 IB points for Mathematics and Finance 33 and for all undergraduate degrees at Cass a minimum of 35 IB points. I would not call students in the range of 30-35 IB points low quality. I would actually call them medium to high quality.
Why do you keep trying to force your msc cass view to try to change my opinion? You must have misunderstood what I meant again.
I said that City mainly has low quality students, not Cass, and especially not master's Cass
Plus, academic ability is only one indicator of student quality. There are many disruptive, trashy, racist students at City and Cass. I know it and I experienced it as a current student there. Accept it
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by Tredoltle)
Why do you keep trying to force your msc cass view to try to change my opinion? You must have misunderstood what I meant again.
I said that City mainly has low quality students, not Cass, and especially not master's Cass
Plus, academic ability is only one indicator of student quality. There are many disruptive, trashy, racist students at City and Cass. I know it and I experienced it as a current student there. Accept it
The IB entry criteria I am referring to have to do also with undergraduate degrees at City (not Cass). Here are some indicative entry criteria for some undergraduate degrees at City (not Cass).

For the BSc in Mathematics and Finance 32 IB points, for the BSc Electrical and Electronic Engineering 32 IB points, for the BSc in Computer Science 32 IB points, for the BSc in International Political Economy 32 IB points.

I agree with you that academic ability is not the only indicator of student quality. But I find it hard to believe that students who have entered City (not Cass) university with 32 IB points on average for most degrees are low quality. 32 IB points on average is a solid grade, I would even argue a good grade. Also as I have stated previously, City is a member institution of the University of London (UoL). Being part of the UoL ensures some minimum standards, so again I find it hard to believe that students who have entered City are of low quality.

I was also a student at City University and I did not hang around just at the Cass building. Never experienced any racist disruptive, trashy, racist students. So please accept also my experience as I accept yours.
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Olivertvs
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(Original post by ppapanastasiou)
The IB entry criteria I am referring to have to do also with undergraduate degrees at City (not Cass). Here are some indicative entry criteria for some undergraduate degrees at City (not Cass).

For the BSc in Mathematics and Finance 32 IB points, for the BSc Electrical and Electronic Engineering 32 IB points, for the BSc in Computer Science 32 IB points, for the BSc in International Political Economy 32 IB points.

I agree with you that academic ability is not the only indicator of student quality. But I find it hard to believe that students who have entered City (not Cass) university with 32 IB points on average for most degrees are low quality. 32 IB points on average is a solid grade, I would even argue a good grade. Also as I have stated previously, City is a member institution of the University of London (UoL). Being part of the UoL ensures some minimum standards, so again I find it hard to believe that students who have entered City are of low quality.

I was also a student at City University and I did not hang around just at the Cass building. Never experienced any racist disruptive, trashy, racist students. So please accept also my experience as I accept yours.
What’s the student life at CASS life? Pros and cons would be great. Is it predominantly international students? Thanks
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ppapanastasiou
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(Original post by Olivertvs)
What’s the student life at CASS life? Pros and cons would be great. Is it predominantly international students? Thanks
Student life is quite good and the student union is quite active. Yes it is predominantly international students.
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