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Cat.killeen
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#1
I love classics - I do Latin and Ancient Greek A-level. If anyone else like Greek and Roman mythology please chat to me, I’d love to find others who are also interested!
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spqr101
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#2
spqr101
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#3
I have to do an essay on Aeneid 2 and whether Aeneas' actions should be considered heroic or foolish. I haven't read the Aeneid 2 in a while so I'll have to read over it (just bought the Robert Fagles translation off amazon- super excited because when I read it I read the prose translation by David West and verse seems more fun!).
I don't quite remember which episodes take place in book 2 that may make Aeneas seem foolish though.
I suppose the Helen episode and him attempting to dress up as a Greek but that backfiring?
I'm rereading book 2 tonight though so hopefully I'll pick stuff up.
I'm also going to have to look into secondary sources to use. Planning on using the Cambridge Companion to Homer and Companion to Virgil and I have a few JSTOR articles up my sleeve, but some other recommendations that would aid with research would be great.
Cheers!
I don't quite remember which episodes take place in book 2 that may make Aeneas seem foolish though.
I suppose the Helen episode and him attempting to dress up as a Greek but that backfiring?
I'm rereading book 2 tonight though so hopefully I'll pick stuff up.
I'm also going to have to look into secondary sources to use. Planning on using the Cambridge Companion to Homer and Companion to Virgil and I have a few JSTOR articles up my sleeve, but some other recommendations that would aid with research would be great.
Cheers!
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becausethenight
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#4
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#4
One word: OVID 
Also spqr101I've just finished studying Aeneid 2 for my Pre U - have a look into the definition of hero and the Homeric hero (we had an essay on 'Is Aeneas a Hero' and we all got slaughtered for 'misunderstanding the concept of heroism in Classics' - there's a good discussion about if heroism is even possible for Aeneas, as there's no enemy he can kill and despoil, no glory to be won. His only choice is to flee and he's lost regardless of what he does, it's written in the stars. And yet he tells his own story, he is his own bard - maybe he's a metatextual hero!) When I think of Aeneas as foolish in Book 2, I think of him abandoning his family, mindless and unthinking ('arma amens capio'), or him ignoring fate and the paradigm shift, watching powerlessly as Priam is slaughtered; but he's also heroic in a modern sense in his ultimate acceptance of fate (the last line of book 2, 'cessi et sublato montes genitore petivi' has a quiet strength to it) and desire to protect his culture, people and family. He's trying so hard, and he's always doomed. But yes he's kind of an idiot but we love him anyway
Sorry I have feelings about Aeneid 2!
Also spqr101I've just finished studying Aeneid 2 for my Pre U - have a look into the definition of hero and the Homeric hero (we had an essay on 'Is Aeneas a Hero' and we all got slaughtered for 'misunderstanding the concept of heroism in Classics' - there's a good discussion about if heroism is even possible for Aeneas, as there's no enemy he can kill and despoil, no glory to be won. His only choice is to flee and he's lost regardless of what he does, it's written in the stars. And yet he tells his own story, he is his own bard - maybe he's a metatextual hero!) When I think of Aeneas as foolish in Book 2, I think of him abandoning his family, mindless and unthinking ('arma amens capio'), or him ignoring fate and the paradigm shift, watching powerlessly as Priam is slaughtered; but he's also heroic in a modern sense in his ultimate acceptance of fate (the last line of book 2, 'cessi et sublato montes genitore petivi' has a quiet strength to it) and desire to protect his culture, people and family. He's trying so hard, and he's always doomed. But yes he's kind of an idiot but we love him anyway
Sorry I have feelings about Aeneid 2!
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spqr101
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#5
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#5
(Original post by becausethenight)
One word: OVID
Also spqr101I've just finished studying Aeneid 2 for my Pre U - have a look into the definition of hero and the Homeric hero (we had an essay on 'Is Aeneas a Hero' and we all got slaughtered for 'misunderstanding the concept of heroism in Classics' - there's a good discussion about if heroism is even possible for Aeneas, as there's no enemy he can kill and despoil, no glory to be won. His only choice is to flee and he's lost regardless of what he does, it's written in the stars. And yet he tells his own story, he is his own bard - maybe he's a metatextual hero!) When I think of Aeneas as foolish in Book 2, I think of him abandoning his family, mindless and unthinking ('arma amens capio'), or him ignoring fate and the paradigm shift, watching powerlessly as Priam is slaughtered; but he's also heroic in a modern sense in his ultimate acceptance of fate (the last line of book 2, 'cessi et sublato montes genitore petivi' has a quiet strength to it) and desire to protect his culture, people and family. He's trying so hard, and he's always doomed. But yes he's kind of an idiot but we love him anyway
Sorry I have feelings about Aeneid 2!
One word: OVID
Also spqr101I've just finished studying Aeneid 2 for my Pre U - have a look into the definition of hero and the Homeric hero (we had an essay on 'Is Aeneas a Hero' and we all got slaughtered for 'misunderstanding the concept of heroism in Classics' - there's a good discussion about if heroism is even possible for Aeneas, as there's no enemy he can kill and despoil, no glory to be won. His only choice is to flee and he's lost regardless of what he does, it's written in the stars. And yet he tells his own story, he is his own bard - maybe he's a metatextual hero!) When I think of Aeneas as foolish in Book 2, I think of him abandoning his family, mindless and unthinking ('arma amens capio'), or him ignoring fate and the paradigm shift, watching powerlessly as Priam is slaughtered; but he's also heroic in a modern sense in his ultimate acceptance of fate (the last line of book 2, 'cessi et sublato montes genitore petivi' has a quiet strength to it) and desire to protect his culture, people and family. He's trying so hard, and he's always doomed. But yes he's kind of an idiot but we love him anyway
Sorry I have feelings about Aeneid 2!
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becausethenight
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#6
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#6
(Original post by spqr101)
Thanks this is a really helpful starting point- last year I worked on an essay on whether Penelope is more heroic than odysseus and so I had to do some pretty extensive research on the differences between the Homeric and modern hero. I'm definitely saving this message into a word document to help me later
Thanks this is a really helpful starting point- last year I worked on an essay on whether Penelope is more heroic than odysseus and so I had to do some pretty extensive research on the differences between the Homeric and modern hero. I'm definitely saving this message into a word document to help me later
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spqr101
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#7
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#7
(Original post by becausethenight)
I'm glad it was helpful - I'd always be happy to talk more about this later (just for fun really lol). Your essay on Penelope sounds fascinating - can I read it?
I'm glad it was helpful - I'd always be happy to talk more about this later (just for fun really lol). Your essay on Penelope sounds fascinating - can I read it?
I'm not quite sure how to post it- should I just copy and paste it?
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rxyaltyx
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#8
becausethenight
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#9
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#9
(Original post by spqr101)
Haha sure- just to put it out there I'm in Y10 now and I wrote that essay in the summer holiday of Y9 (I didn't take Greek then so my analysis is all based on the english translation). I always cringe when I read over it...
I'm not quite sure how to post it- should I just copy and paste it?
Haha sure- just to put it out there I'm in Y10 now and I wrote that essay in the summer holiday of Y9 (I didn't take Greek then so my analysis is all based on the english translation). I always cringe when I read over it...
I'm not quite sure how to post it- should I just copy and paste it?
Copy and paste, or click on the paperclip icon at the top of the text box and you can attach word documents
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becausethenight
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#10
rxyaltyx
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#11
spqr101
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#12
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#12
(Original post by becausethenight)
Hahaha I cringe at the thought of pretty much every classics essay I've ever written, and I'm a Y13! These are pretty meaty essay they're giving you!
Copy and paste, or click on the paperclip icon at the top of the text box and you can attach word documents
Hahaha I cringe at the thought of pretty much every classics essay I've ever written, and I'm a Y13! These are pretty meaty essay they're giving you!
Copy and paste, or click on the paperclip icon at the top of the text box and you can attach word documents
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becausethenight
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#13
(Original post by spqr101)
Ah thank you! Also these essays are extra curricular competitions that I've been taking part in; the ones we do in lessons are far from as interesting as these ones...
Ah thank you! Also these essays are extra curricular competitions that I've been taking part in; the ones we do in lessons are far from as interesting as these ones...
I really like the ideas in your essay and the use of scholarship! It would be stronger if you wove the comparison through the essay (lol I'm nitpicking) and I'm not convinced you back up your (very interesting) conclusion - isn't Odysseus also an ordinary person doing extraordinary things (using wit to go up against a god, going into the underworld, surviving and coming home)
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rxyaltyx
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becausethenight
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rxyaltyx
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#16
itscourtchicks
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#17
Do you have any recommendations for books? I’m interested in learning more, so something for “beginners”, if you get me.
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spqr101
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#18
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#18
(Original post by becausethenight)
But Oedipus Rex though
Ah yeah essay competitions - have you looked into translation prizes too? I did Sam Hood in Y12, it was very fun
I really like the ideas in your essay and the use of scholarship! It would be stronger if you wove the comparison through the essay (lol I'm nitpicking) and I'm not convinced you back up your (very interesting) conclusion - isn't Odysseus also an ordinary person doing extraordinary things (using wit to go up against a god, going into the underworld, surviving and coming home)
But Oedipus Rex though
Ah yeah essay competitions - have you looked into translation prizes too? I did Sam Hood in Y12, it was very fun
I really like the ideas in your essay and the use of scholarship! It would be stronger if you wove the comparison through the essay (lol I'm nitpicking) and I'm not convinced you back up your (very interesting) conclusion - isn't Odysseus also an ordinary person doing extraordinary things (using wit to go up against a god, going into the underworld, surviving and coming home)
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spqr101
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#19
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#19
(Original post by itscourtchicks)
Do you have any recommendations for books? I’m interested in learning more, so something for “beginners”, if you get me.
Do you have any recommendations for books? I’m interested in learning more, so something for “beginners”, if you get me.
To do with the Iliad/Odyssey:
The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller
The Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker
Lost Books of the Odyssey by Zachary Mason
Circe by Madeline Miller
Translations of the Odyssey by E. V. Rieu is the one I read and people tell me is translation of the Iliad is good too.
To do with the Aeneid:
Lavinia by Ursula Le Guin
The translation of the Aeneid by Robert Fagles (David West is also decent)
Other tales from classical mythology:
Heroes by Stephen Fry
Mythos by Stephen Fry
Greek tragedy:
House of Names by Colm Toibin is a retelling of the Oresteia
Planning on reading the translation of the Oresteia by Robert Fagles of the summer
I'm currently reading 'Fire from Heaven' by Mary Renault. The first book of a trilogy on Alexander the Great (80 pages in and loving it!)
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spqr101
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#20
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#20
(Original post by rxyaltyx)
my teacher is making me read Herodotus rn and i'm not loving it
my teacher is making me read Herodotus rn and i'm not loving it
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