American Applying to Oxford

I realize its nuts. It's completely nuts. But I'm a rising senior IB student with a solid background in politics. I would love to apply to PPE but I don't quite completely understand how the application process in the UK works yet, much less for Oxford.

Does anyone have any sense of what it takes to get into Oxford for an American?

I have very good test scores on nearly everything (SAT, ACT & AP), though I won't take my IB tests until the end of this year. If anyone could help me, in any way, I would greatly appreciate it.

I understand I have to take something called the TSA to apply for PPE? Is this the sort of thing you have to study for?

You must understand that my knowledge of applying to Oxford is limited to what I've read on this forum, the Oxford website and watching History Boys. I'm not stupid, just bad at figuring out what I need to do.

Please don't rip me a new one for being a totally n00b and starting a whole new thread for this. Much appreciated.

Reply 1

SolInvictus

11

minstraussman

I realize its nuts. It's completely nuts. But I'm a rising senior IB student with a solid background in politics. I would love to apply to PPE but I don't quite completely understand how the application process in the UK works yet, much less for Oxford.

You will get a good idea by looking at the Oxford website and checking up the on-line prospectus for international students.

Another of my country folk who want to do PPE. I fell into the trap as well, because, lets admit it, PPE looks oh so good, so interesting, to Oxonian, so employable...... but its really got more to it than that.

1) PPE is extremely competitive. It requires many thinking and writing skills, as well as multidisciplinary learning patterns that rarely given to us in the US, regardless of the quality of our curriculum, be it AP or IB.
2)Oxford really takes only the cream or the crop when it comes to most subjects. It takes not only knowledge and study skills, but also dedication and potential to excel, and that is what Tutors look for when they interview you. Your subject needs to be what lights you up.

I guess what I am trying to say is really look and see if you really want to do PPE, and see if you can be the strongest applicant for it. There are a lot of great degrees at Oxford, and while they may lack the glamour of PPE, they are great degrees and your passion and potential may really lie in another course.

Does anyone have any sense of what it takes to get into Oxford for an American?

AP and IB marks, doing well on the aptitude test and presenting yourself well at interview.

I have very good test scores on nearly everything (SAT, ACT & AP), though I won't take my IB tests until the end of this year. If anyone could help me, in any way, I would greatly appreciate it.

Your SATs are only assessed to a basic level. As long as your score is a 2100 (or 1400 old style) they don't care if its any higher. Its a stupid test that tells them nothing, besides the fact that you are proficient at basic aptitude skills.

I understand I have to take something called the TSA to apply for PPE? Is this the sort of thing you have to study for?

Its an aptitude test, so no, although you can look it up and see what can be expected.

You must understand that my knowledge of applying to Oxford is limited to what I've read on this forum, the Oxford website and watching History Boys. I'm not stupid, just bad at figuring out what I need to do.

The Oxford website is actually pretty good, and they are very comprehensive, considering the diversity of applicants from many different education systems.

Reply 2

minstraussman

OP

Thank you so much for your awesome reply. I'm sorry that I have so many questions.

So what would you propose? Is it crazy to even try? I am also interested in studying modern languages. Would that be a more realistic goal to set for myself? Could I apply to both?

Are you currently a student at Oxford, or are you planning to apply? How are/did you prepare for the interview? Are you/did you want to do PPE?

How are American students viewed at Oxford? Is it sort of impossible (like, well I guess if she tried this hard, we can MAYBE let her in sort of mentality?)

OK! No more questions after this, I swear... :smile:

Reply 3

amar09

minstraussman

Thank you so much for your awesome reply. I'm sorry that I have so many questions.

So what would you propose? Is it crazy to even try? I am also interested in studying modern languages. Would that be a more realistic goal to set for myself? Could I apply to both?

Are you currently a student at Oxford, or are you planning to apply? How are/did you prepare for the interview? Are you/did you want to do PPE?

How are American students viewed at Oxford? Is it sort of impossible (like, well I guess if she tried this hard, we can MAYBE let her in sort of mentality?)

OK! No more questions after this, I swear... :smile:

well if you have the grades and are passionate about the course, then apply. Between languages and PPE, you should really go for what you are passionate about, not for career prospects or prestigious Oxford course, an Oxford degree is prestigious regardless of what subject you take! Remember, they do an interview most likely in New York if you are a serious candidates, where they see first hand if you really like your course, or you just want to apply because its Oxford.

I'm actually applying to Oxford for economics and management this coming september, but i've wanted to go there for a couple of years and have done quite a lot of research

Americans are viewed just like any other applicant to Oxford, and there are a quite a lot of Americans there. They wont have the sort of mentality mentioned in the bracket, and will expect to be of the same calibre as any other successful applicant.

Final Advice: They interview more than 75% of international candidaties (they only don't interview international candidates if they don't get the grades or they have something seriously wrong with their application), and once you get the interview, it counts more than anything else in their decisions.

Reply 4

SolInvictus

11

minstraussman

So what would you propose? Is it crazy to even try? I am also interested in studying modern languages. Would that be a more realistic goal to set for myself? Could I apply to both?

Its not crazy to try, but you have to be able to assess yourself objectively. Look at the sample TSA, and look at what Oxford looks for in a PPE student. Give yourself a mock admission run, pretending that you are a tutor looking at your grades, TSA and how you might present yourself at intervie. Do the same for languages, and look up the languages aptitude test. See where you do the best, and where you are really going to be a bright star shining.

Unfortunately you cannot apply to more than one course at the same University, so I would look well and look hard at what you would really like to do, and what you would do well in studying.

Are you currently a student at Oxford, or are you planning to apply? How are/did you prepare for the interview? Are you/did you want to do PPE?

I am headed up this autumn.

I applied for PPE a while back, and did the New York interview, but was rejected. My interviewer was none other than Alan Ryan. I remember the feedback advice. I was a strong candidate, but I was really not meant for PPE. I didn't do to well on the aptitude test, and my analysis was very Historically based. I really did PPE more or less because my father told me to apply for that at Oxford.

I did law for a bit at another UK uni, before realising how much I hated it, applied to Oxford for History and got in. Best decision of my life.

I didn't do anything to 'prepare' for my interview really. You can't do much besides staying calm, looking over your written work, and sharpening yourself for a mini admissions tutorial/ oral exam. That being said, I did my History interview at the college in Oxford, and it was far better than doing it at New York. If you can, I would recommend interviewing at Oxford.

How are American students viewed at Oxford? Is it sort of impossible (like, well I guess if she tried this hard, we can MAYBE let her in sort of mentality?)

Viewed just as any other group of students. It not impossible, but our admissions rates are far lower than that of most UK students for a few simple reasons. First, UK students can only apply to Five universities by UCAS at one time, so they don't throw in universities just for the heck of it, like many Americans do. Second, Oxford applications are not done very independently, and from what I see school involvement and backing is much bigger than for us in the US, therefore leading to only the better students in the school being put forward as Oxford candidates.

OK! No more questions after this, I swear... :smile:

No problem.

Reply 5

prepschoolcool

hey minstraussman
I would say just go for it-the worst that could happen is you don't get in. I applied on a whim, not thinking I had a hope in hell of getting in and I'm heading off in October to study Modern Languages.

I will say though, be prepared- the application process is quite different and requires you to be quite organized. I don't know how much thought you've given this, but if you're applying to Oxford or Cambridge then your UCAS form has to be submitted quite early in September so you should get working. I had to work quite closely with the college counselors at my school as well, since Oxford wanted me to do an additional phone interview, as well as taking a written test [I tell you all this not to scare you just to let you know a bit about the application process]

It is definitely feasible- you've just got to know what college/course (you can only choose one course). look online at the prospectus, decide if you want to do PPE, or languages or whatever. bear in mind, like other people have mentioned that PPE is one of the most, if not the most popular course.

minstraussman

though I won't take my IB tests until the end of this year.

If you're not taking your IBs till the end of the senior year, they might well give you a conditional offer...that happened to me, so I had to accept at an American university as well, and then withdraw which ended up being rather messy.
Anyways sorry for such a hideously long post but just thought it would be good for you to hear about my application experience- if you have any questions feel free to ask or you can message me!

Reply 6

Derek_the_Sheep

8

If you've got the time and the money to do it, come to Oxford to check it out. If you sign up with a college for the open day on Sept 19th this year (or one of the July open days next year, if you can wait that long), you'll have a day to nose around, and most important, to talk with the admissions tutor and/or the subject tutor in PPE or whatever. Even if you can't make those dates, you can usually arrange a one-off visit.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/open_days/index.html

DtS

[edit - if you do plan to visit, the college might even be able to accommodate you for a night or two. Ask.]

Reply 7

Greatleysteg

19

SolInvictus

Unfortunately you cannot apply to more than one course at the same University, so I would look well and look hard at what you would really like to do, and what you would do well in studying.

You can;I applied for both European Social and Political Studies and English & German at UCL.

It's only Oxford and Cambridge where you can't apply for more than one course.

Reply 8

SolInvictus

11

Greatleysteg

You can;I applied for both European Social and Political Studies and English & German at UCL.

It's only Oxford and Cambridge where you can't apply for more than one course.

Really!!! I have never known anyone to do that before..... :ninja:

Reply 9

caustic87

3

OP - I just wanted to say that it is possible, however it's probably hard work because the Oxford system is built on top of the UK education system which is different to the US. PPE is actually probably an exception because you require a broad skills base, but in other degrees, the tutors aren't going to much care what your like outside of the subject you apply for.

My roomate in the first year was from the US - she studied French and Linguistics. She's done really well at Oxford, but she'd spent a whole year in France and had amazing French before she came. I think this made up for the fact that she maybe hadn't done as many years of studying it as the UK students.

Reply 10

rkd

12

SolInvictus

Viewed just as any other group of students. It not impossible, but our admissions rates are far lower than that of most UK students for a few simple reasons. First, UK students can only apply to Five universities by UCAS at one time, so they don't throw in universities just for the heck of it, like many Americans do. Second, Oxford applications are not done very independently, and from what I see school involvement and backing is much bigger than for us in the US, therefore leading to only the better students in the school being put forward as Oxford candidates.

I don't really think that this is the case, if you're referring to coaching and the like - I'd argue that the majority of people don't get it, and if they do it's really not much use because it's done by teachers with little, no or very outdated experience of Oxbridge.

I think a larger issue might be our academic focus - I don't pretend to know much about US education, but even Harvard will take sporting achievements, musical ability etc. into account in a way that Oxford doesn't, as I understand it. Whereas America gives a liberal arts education and so has to focus on the whole person when admitting them, the UK system focuses a lot more on aptitude in the single subject. Not understanding that they're looking for something different could be what damages their chances.

Reply 11

SolInvictus

11

rkd

I don't really think that this is the case, if you're referring to coaching and the like - I'd argue that the majority of people don't get it, and if they do it's really not much use because it's done by teachers with little, no or very outdated experience of Oxbridge.

That wasn't what I was referring to. It has more to do with referees, getting the applications themselves from your school, and having your school proctor the exams.

I think a larger issue might be our academic focus - I don't pretend to know much about US education, but even Harvard will take sporting achievements, musical ability etc. into account in a way that Oxford doesn't, as I understand it.

Harvard really doesn't have an admissions system, as much as an admissions mess where all manner of criteria are used to let in those who the university pleases to take in, and exclude those the university does not want. Social engineering, prejudices and all sorts of weird agendas drive admissions more than academic criteria.

Whereas America gives a liberal arts education and so has to focus on the whole person when admitting them, the UK system focuses a lot more on aptitude in the single subject. Not understanding that they're looking for something different could be what damages their chances.

Its partly that, but PPE is itself a very liberal arts degree, giving students a wide range of options and study in three subjects. To the average American student it looks like a Political Science and Economics double major, or International Relations, although its focus and study can be nothing like those two subjects.

Reply 12

rkd

12

SolInvictus

That wasn't what I was referring to. It has more to do with referees, getting the applications themselves from your school, and having your school proctor the exams.

I can't see how this disadvantages Americans, though - unless something's seriously wrong with the education system to the point that teachers won't give references or invigilate a two-hour exam?

Its partly that, but PPE is itself a very liberal arts degree, giving students a wide range of options and study in three subjects. To the average American student it looks like a Political Science and Economics double major, or International Relations, although its focus and study can be nothing like those two subjects.

Yet as you accept, the course content is going to be different to what Americans think, and US admissions are different to Oxford ones, and I think this is the stumbling block. Certainly, though, I can see that the school background might be unhelpful here - if they're recommending an inappropriately Harvard-esque personal statement about building wells in Africa, for example.

Reply 13

SolInvictus

11

rkd

I can't see how this disadvantages Americans, though - unless something's seriously wrong with the education system to the point that teachers won't give references or invigilate a two-hour exam?

You guys have to put down things like predicted grades from teachers, and, if I am correct, no teacher will write a reference for a student who has absolutely no chance of making it in, and has an AS set of grades at BBB. However, due to the US system, almost any student can get a reference, including some shocking ones, and getting the test invigilated tends to be something that makes the school a bit aware of an Oxford applicant in the UK, but not in the US.

You really can't apply to Oxford unless the school lets you, and many schools won't allow a BBB student to apply, whereas the rabbit drawn out of the hate system of many US schools means that just about everyone gets what they need from the High School without a second thought.

Reply 14

Jean-Paul Sartre

Hey, another American applying to Oxford. I can't really help as I'm in the same position as you (applying Experimental Psych), but remember to use the PS Helpers here on TSR they're very useful and GOOD LUCK!

Reply 15

minstraussman

OP

WOW thank you everyone for your amazing comments/feedback. I feel much more certain than I did before about the whole process, though some parts of it still mystify me. What I find most saddening is that it seems most people have support from their schools when applying to university...but since my school's been closed due to lack of funds, I've been trying to field most of this stuff on my own. Hopefully, I can figure it out soon enough.

It'll be much easier, thanks to everyone's killer advice :smile:

The test I need to do PPE can only be proctored at some centre in Boston, quite far from where I live. The woman I emailed at the facility said that I could get my own school to give the exam to me, but since I have no school, that's not quite possible.

In light of that, and given all the advice, I feel I would have a better shot applying for a French and Linguistics program. I really, really want to go to Oxford, and they do have on of the best French studies programs in the world. I'm sort of fluent in French (I'm writing my extended essay in French, fellow IB-ers!) so who knows? Maybe I'll get lucky.

I didn't realize the application is due so soon-I'll have to get on that. Of course, my applications for Brown and Oxford are due first. :P No pressure! hehe

It's comforting to know that it's possible for an American to get in, though...

Reply 16

SolInvictus

11

minstraussman

WOW thank you everyone for your amazing comments/feedback. I feel much more certain than I did before about the whole process, though some parts of it still mystify me. What I find most saddening is that it seems most people have support from their schools when applying to university...but since my school's been closed due to lack of funds, I've been trying to field most of this stuff on my own. Hopefully, I can figure it out soon enough.

Unlucky :frown:

The test I need to do PPE can only be proctored at some centre in Boston, quite far from where I live. The woman I emailed at the facility said that I could get my own school to give the exam to me, but since I have no school, that's not quite possible.

Hold on, surely another school from your district should be able to proctor the exam for you?

In light of that, and given all the advice, I feel I would have a better shot applying for a French and Linguistics program. I really, really want to go to Oxford, and they do have on of the best French studies programs in the world. I'm sort of fluent in French (I'm writing my extended essay in French, fellow IB-ers!) so who knows? Maybe I'll get lucky.

Wait, wait, wait.

Oxford wants you to 1st really really want to do your subject, 2nd really really be good at your subject and they don't care about how you really really want to go to Oxford, since that is generally every applicant there.

You should be choosing languages because you really really like French, you are really really good at french, because you go really really geek for french, not because its an easier application. You have to be competitive with all the other applicants around you, and they will be top of the line students from the UK and abroad.

Reply 17

jbruner17

SolInvictus

Really!!! I have never known anyone to do that before..... :ninja:

Just this year I applied for "Political Economy" and "Philosophy and Economics" at LSE

Reply 18

SolInvictus

11

jbruner17

Just this year I applied for "Political Economy" and "Philosophy and Economics" at LSE

This pisses me off, because I was never told that I could apply to one university for two course outside Oxford.

You would think they would tell you that you can apply for more than one course.

Reply 19

arod

5

If you are an American student applying to study in the UK, the British Council has a great website with lots of info on the process, and what you need to do once you are accepted, student visas, financial info, plus they also have ambassadors i.e. USA students who are currently studying in the UK who have agreed to answer all of your questions via email. Oddly enough nothing for Canadian students, but at least some of the info is similar :-)
http://www.britishcouncil.org/usa-education.htm?mtklink=usa-homepage-education-link

American Applying to Oxford

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