Is being a clinical pharmacist worthwhile?
I am in Year 12 right now and I take Alevel Maths, Chemistry and Biology. Right now I want to become a pharmacist, because I genuinely love science and maths and I did some work experience at Boots too to gain some experience. But I don't know much still about Pharmacy, since I didn't get to finish my work experience due to the Covid-19. I do know they make around £40,000 yearly but I heard it is stressful and that it isn't the best job to have in the future, do they have bands where I can upgrade? I still want to become a pharmacist, but I'm just having second thoughts because I don't know everything about becoming a pharmacist, what if my mental health goes down?
Could I make a suggestion to all those considering enrolling on a pharmacy degree course and anticipating a career as a Community Pharmacist? I am speaking as a community pharmacist in the North East with close to 3 decades of experience and well connected within CP.
Please take the time to read the article published in the Guardian (April 2016) entitled “How Boots went Rogue” by the investigative reporter Aditya Chakrabortty. Just “Google” it. It is free to view in full with no pay wall. Be sure to read the follow up articles and especially the responses to it by community pharmacists. I believe it attracted a record post bag. The plight of the very many responding pharmacists and the conditions they are experiencing should give you something to think about.
Look also at the articles and comments in the C&D (Chemist and Druggist). It is free and easy to login to view the articles in full.
Pay and conditions have worsened in the 4 years since the articles in the Guardian were written as the recent funding cuts to Community Pharmacy are hitting. But please, please go out and do your own research to ascertain the true picture in CP. Ask face to face those actually doing the job. Don’t just rely on forums such as this as career choice is one of the most important decisions you will make. Good luck.
Please take the time to read the article published in the Guardian (April 2016) entitled “How Boots went Rogue” by the investigative reporter Aditya Chakrabortty. Just “Google” it. It is free to view in full with no pay wall. Be sure to read the follow up articles and especially the responses to it by community pharmacists. I believe it attracted a record post bag. The plight of the very many responding pharmacists and the conditions they are experiencing should give you something to think about.
Look also at the articles and comments in the C&D (Chemist and Druggist). It is free and easy to login to view the articles in full.
Pay and conditions have worsened in the 4 years since the articles in the Guardian were written as the recent funding cuts to Community Pharmacy are hitting. But please, please go out and do your own research to ascertain the true picture in CP. Ask face to face those actually doing the job. Don’t just rely on forums such as this as career choice is one of the most important decisions you will make. Good luck.
(edited 4 years ago)
If it's money you are after, you will make loads as a pharmacist. Starting pay in the North East is £50,000/year, this can rise very fast as long as you are willing to take on more responsibility. £65,000/year in less than 2 years after qualifying is very much achievable.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Original post by Claremont4ever
If it's money you are after, you will make loads as a pharmacist. Starting pay in the North East is £50,000/year, this can rise very fast as long as you are willing to take on more responsibility. £65,000/year in less than 2 years after qualifying is very much achievable.
Good luck.
Good luck.
I see you posting your earnings all over the place but please stop posting as if this salary is somehow achievable for most (community) pharmacists.
Randomsheep11,
Completely agree with you re this persistent poster of disinformation. They are setting up students for major disappointment. Perhaps they find that amusing?
Starting salaries in NE are low to mid £30ks for standard hours. There is very little opportunity for career progression. It also cannot be over emphasised the effect of the recent funding cuts on Community Pharmacy. The stated objective is to close over a quarter of Pharmacies and this is being done crudely by reducing funding. Pharmacies will be and are closing as they become financially unviable. The effect on jobs and salaries is obvious.
Read the articles in the Chemist and Druggist and elsewhere if you want to look deeper.
As I have said before, look at the opportunities for a Pharmacy degree. They are there BUT I urge you strongly to avoid Community. It really is sinking.
As for the original poster of this thread perhaps they should consider Chemical Engineering?
Completely agree with you re this persistent poster of disinformation. They are setting up students for major disappointment. Perhaps they find that amusing?
Starting salaries in NE are low to mid £30ks for standard hours. There is very little opportunity for career progression. It also cannot be over emphasised the effect of the recent funding cuts on Community Pharmacy. The stated objective is to close over a quarter of Pharmacies and this is being done crudely by reducing funding. Pharmacies will be and are closing as they become financially unviable. The effect on jobs and salaries is obvious.
Read the articles in the Chemist and Druggist and elsewhere if you want to look deeper.
As I have said before, look at the opportunities for a Pharmacy degree. They are there BUT I urge you strongly to avoid Community. It really is sinking.
As for the original poster of this thread perhaps they should consider Chemical Engineering?
(edited 4 years ago)
Let's assume you earn a bare hourly pittance of £22/hour.
£22 x 40 hours(standard hours) x 52.5 = £46,200/year. This is a bare minimum, most pharmacists in the NE start at £50,000/year.
All these negative people posting £30,000 pittance everywhere, I wonder how/where they get these figures from.
I was on this website and CnD many years ago prior to going to pharmacy school, it was the same negativity that is prevalent now that was prevalent then. I chose to ignore the negativity, rose above it and chose to pursue pharmacy in uni. Today, I earn an NHS consultant doctor salary even though I'm a pharmacist who graduated less than 2 years ago. If I had listened to the negativity years ago, I would have been stuck in an engineering or bms degree earning a £30,000/year pittance with no future.
Goodluck with whatever you decide.
£22 x 40 hours(standard hours) x 52.5 = £46,200/year. This is a bare minimum, most pharmacists in the NE start at £50,000/year.
All these negative people posting £30,000 pittance everywhere, I wonder how/where they get these figures from.
I was on this website and CnD many years ago prior to going to pharmacy school, it was the same negativity that is prevalent now that was prevalent then. I chose to ignore the negativity, rose above it and chose to pursue pharmacy in uni. Today, I earn an NHS consultant doctor salary even though I'm a pharmacist who graduated less than 2 years ago. If I had listened to the negativity years ago, I would have been stuck in an engineering or bms degree earning a £30,000/year pittance with no future.
Goodluck with whatever you decide.
Original post by Claremont4ever
Let's assume you earn a bare hourly pittance of £22/hour.
£22 x 40 hours(standard hours) x 52.5 = £46,200/year. This is a bare minimum, most pharmacists in the NE start at £50,000/year.
All these negative people posting £30,000 pittance everywhere, I wonder how/where they get these figures from.
I was on this website and CnD many years ago prior to going to pharmacy school, it was the same negativity that is prevalent now that was prevalent then. I chose to ignore the negativity, rose above it and chose to pursue pharmacy in uni. Today, I earn an NHS consultant doctor salary even though I'm a pharmacist who graduated less than 2 years ago. If I had listened to the negativity years ago, I would have been stuck in an engineering or bms degree earning a £30,000/year pittance with no future.
Goodluck with whatever you decide.
£22 x 40 hours(standard hours) x 52.5 = £46,200/year. This is a bare minimum, most pharmacists in the NE start at £50,000/year.
All these negative people posting £30,000 pittance everywhere, I wonder how/where they get these figures from.
I was on this website and CnD many years ago prior to going to pharmacy school, it was the same negativity that is prevalent now that was prevalent then. I chose to ignore the negativity, rose above it and chose to pursue pharmacy in uni. Today, I earn an NHS consultant doctor salary even though I'm a pharmacist who graduated less than 2 years ago. If I had listened to the negativity years ago, I would have been stuck in an engineering or bms degree earning a £30,000/year pittance with no future.
Goodluck with whatever you decide.
You’re earning the same as a consultant doctor? So around 70-110k? Okay then....
Original post by A_786
You’re earning the same as a consultant doctor? So around 70-110k? Okay then....
Yes, I locum as well and earn £400/day as a locum. In total, I probably earn roughly £75,000-£80,000/year.
You are correct. The Chemist and Druggist online magazine survey 2018/19 showed the average community pharmacist earned £36k a year. The company I work for starts NQPs on about 26-30/32k a yr. depending on contracted hours of around 36 to 40+. This is in the Midlands. I have heard that recently Boots have introduced a new pay scale, which is a little better, but you sell your soul to the devil if you work for them in my opinion. They want blood. And the biggest complaint about them, there are never enough support staff to help you. So you will sweat hard for every penny.
As Sarah, above has said, there have been cuts to funding, it is getting worse, the government wants the cheapest way of getting medicines to people in the least number of locations. Boots have closed around 200 stores pre-covid, and so have Lloyds. That is TEN percent of all Lloyds pharmacies. We do not need 3000 graduates a year, that is why wages have been pushed down. My wages have been flat for 12 years since 2008 as the company has to pay the minimum wage and the new pension contributions by law to people lower down like counter staff and dispensers. They do not have to give pharmacists a pay rise by law. If I said I wanted 65k a year, they would say, 'goodbye'.
If you intend to do community pharmacy, then work on the basis that you will start high 20s/low 30s and will retire on about 40/45k equivalent. There is no pay or career structure to work your way up like there is in hospital.
Amazon are sniffing around pharmacy in the UK, that is not good. There is already Pharmacy2U, a mail order company for prescriptions. Expect these to increase and bricks and mortar pharmacies to decrease. We don't need 12,000 pharmacies in the UK. Judging by news reports leaking from the department of Health, they would prefer around 9000.
Also, with more automation, and working with robots, which I do for one company, then you are in a warehouse style environment with no in-store music/radio, no windows, no customers to chat to. Just endless boxes or blister packs to check in near silence apart from the clunk of the robot.
The Big Money days of being a locum pharmacist or any type of pharmacist are gone. you will never own your own business unless you have a rich old relative with 500k in the bank and you named in their will, and they have a weak chest and heart. I have worked for many independents over the years and their children rarely take over the business. They usually do medicine. One had a lad who became a plumber and he earns more than me now and he's only about 30. He definitely earns more than a community pharmacist aged 30. An assistant manager in Lidl or Aldi earns around 30/32k. Just look on Reed.
Ignore the person posting 65k after 2 yrs qualified. They qualified abroad and did OSPAP, if you look at their post history. They show they know little of UK pharmacy, however much they claim they earn. With the emphasis on claim.
Both Sarah and I have been in Pharmacy for the best part of 30 yrs each. You can make your own minds up on who to believe. BTW, if you are going to spend 5 long years studying pharmacy thinking it will make you as wealthy as the quoted consultant level salary, then I'm sorry, it won't.
As Sarah said, yes, there are opportunities but there are a lot more of you going to be competing for them. Go and see how many pharmacists you can see in pharmacies, over the age of 50/55. Go and ask ten community pharmacists if they would recommend a career in community pharmacy. Do work experience. Do not do it because your cousin's brother's mate did it and says he earns £XXX a year! It is a very stressful, soul-destroying at times job.
More importantly, read the 'stickies' at the very top of the pharmacy section. Especially the one on what the Unis don't tell you and the one on 'is it worth it?'.
I'm sorry if this is all very pessimistic, but a couple of years ago, even Duncan Rudkin, head of the GPhC, the regulatory body, told the Universities he was meeting too many disillusioned, young, under 30, community pharmacists, and they should be more honest on the career and salaries, opportunities on offer, etc. Remember they are a business, they want your 37k fees. They do not necessarily have your best interests at heart.
Don't get me wrong, there are some people who enjoy community pharmacy, but sadly, I would have to say, from my own experiences, over the years, they are getting fewer and fewer.
Just remember one thing, do your own research. Do not do pharmacy through Clearing just for something to do, especially if you miss your medicine or dentistry or optics grades. Those are the unhappiest of all students and pharmacists.
As Sarah, above has said, there have been cuts to funding, it is getting worse, the government wants the cheapest way of getting medicines to people in the least number of locations. Boots have closed around 200 stores pre-covid, and so have Lloyds. That is TEN percent of all Lloyds pharmacies. We do not need 3000 graduates a year, that is why wages have been pushed down. My wages have been flat for 12 years since 2008 as the company has to pay the minimum wage and the new pension contributions by law to people lower down like counter staff and dispensers. They do not have to give pharmacists a pay rise by law. If I said I wanted 65k a year, they would say, 'goodbye'.
If you intend to do community pharmacy, then work on the basis that you will start high 20s/low 30s and will retire on about 40/45k equivalent. There is no pay or career structure to work your way up like there is in hospital.
Amazon are sniffing around pharmacy in the UK, that is not good. There is already Pharmacy2U, a mail order company for prescriptions. Expect these to increase and bricks and mortar pharmacies to decrease. We don't need 12,000 pharmacies in the UK. Judging by news reports leaking from the department of Health, they would prefer around 9000.
Also, with more automation, and working with robots, which I do for one company, then you are in a warehouse style environment with no in-store music/radio, no windows, no customers to chat to. Just endless boxes or blister packs to check in near silence apart from the clunk of the robot.
The Big Money days of being a locum pharmacist or any type of pharmacist are gone. you will never own your own business unless you have a rich old relative with 500k in the bank and you named in their will, and they have a weak chest and heart. I have worked for many independents over the years and their children rarely take over the business. They usually do medicine. One had a lad who became a plumber and he earns more than me now and he's only about 30. He definitely earns more than a community pharmacist aged 30. An assistant manager in Lidl or Aldi earns around 30/32k. Just look on Reed.
Ignore the person posting 65k after 2 yrs qualified. They qualified abroad and did OSPAP, if you look at their post history. They show they know little of UK pharmacy, however much they claim they earn. With the emphasis on claim.
Both Sarah and I have been in Pharmacy for the best part of 30 yrs each. You can make your own minds up on who to believe. BTW, if you are going to spend 5 long years studying pharmacy thinking it will make you as wealthy as the quoted consultant level salary, then I'm sorry, it won't.
As Sarah said, yes, there are opportunities but there are a lot more of you going to be competing for them. Go and see how many pharmacists you can see in pharmacies, over the age of 50/55. Go and ask ten community pharmacists if they would recommend a career in community pharmacy. Do work experience. Do not do it because your cousin's brother's mate did it and says he earns £XXX a year! It is a very stressful, soul-destroying at times job.
More importantly, read the 'stickies' at the very top of the pharmacy section. Especially the one on what the Unis don't tell you and the one on 'is it worth it?'.
I'm sorry if this is all very pessimistic, but a couple of years ago, even Duncan Rudkin, head of the GPhC, the regulatory body, told the Universities he was meeting too many disillusioned, young, under 30, community pharmacists, and they should be more honest on the career and salaries, opportunities on offer, etc. Remember they are a business, they want your 37k fees. They do not necessarily have your best interests at heart.
Don't get me wrong, there are some people who enjoy community pharmacy, but sadly, I would have to say, from my own experiences, over the years, they are getting fewer and fewer.
Just remember one thing, do your own research. Do not do pharmacy through Clearing just for something to do, especially if you miss your medicine or dentistry or optics grades. Those are the unhappiest of all students and pharmacists.
What you saw on the days you were at Boots, was how it is every day. Every week, every month, every year. At least with Boots you can move around the country, maybe progress a little with them, but the days when all store managers and area managers and people at Head Office were all pharmacists started to be phased out about 20 yrs ago.
If you have any kind of mental health issue, then I would not recommend community pharmacy and certainly not Boots, they are well known within the industry for having a culture of bul*ying, allegedly. Look at the Guardian articles. although Boots say, that is not something they recognise. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they! ?
If you work in an office and are having a bad day, mental-health wise, then you could maybe work from home, or just keep your head down. But being in a community pharmacy, you are basically on the stage for the public from opening at 9am until you close at 6pm, or whatever hours. You will probably not get a set lunch hour. You need to be 100% more or less every day, this is why there is such high staff turn-over and burn-out. I think the average length of time to be with a multiple in one location is about 18months to 2 years before you want to move on from total boredom and frustration at the same place and people and mind-numbing job.
If you suffer from anxiety or depression, or BPD, bipolar, or any form of mental health problem do not become a pharmacist or enter the health service. I have seen 2 colleagues, both excellent caring people have burn-out, depression, anxiety, and eventually a breakdown and leave the profession, both around age 50. Dealing with the general public and their health and concerns and worries is incredibly stressful. Why do you think there is a GP shortage/crisis?
Good luck and do more experience with other companies if you still wish to pursue pharmacy.
If you have any kind of mental health issue, then I would not recommend community pharmacy and certainly not Boots, they are well known within the industry for having a culture of bul*ying, allegedly. Look at the Guardian articles. although Boots say, that is not something they recognise. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they! ?
If you work in an office and are having a bad day, mental-health wise, then you could maybe work from home, or just keep your head down. But being in a community pharmacy, you are basically on the stage for the public from opening at 9am until you close at 6pm, or whatever hours. You will probably not get a set lunch hour. You need to be 100% more or less every day, this is why there is such high staff turn-over and burn-out. I think the average length of time to be with a multiple in one location is about 18months to 2 years before you want to move on from total boredom and frustration at the same place and people and mind-numbing job.
If you suffer from anxiety or depression, or BPD, bipolar, or any form of mental health problem do not become a pharmacist or enter the health service. I have seen 2 colleagues, both excellent caring people have burn-out, depression, anxiety, and eventually a breakdown and leave the profession, both around age 50. Dealing with the general public and their health and concerns and worries is incredibly stressful. Why do you think there is a GP shortage/crisis?
Good luck and do more experience with other companies if you still wish to pursue pharmacy.
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