username3164174
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All the universities around the country have suspended face-to-face teaching until the academic year following the outbreak of COVID-19, with many universities focusing on delivering lectures and seminars online.

For some, this is easy and accessible, but for others, not quite so.

In a report from the Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...t-years-online), they claim that Vice-Chancellors are preparing to teach new students joining their respective universities in September online, and continuing with online studying as it presently stands for those continuing in their universities.

My question to everyone is when do you reckon universities will be able to reopen for face-to-face teaching.

The issues raised between students have included students that are coming from abroad to study in the United Kingdom, and that there are various travel restrictions in place for the majority of the world. Of course, there would be ways to restrict the number of people in lectures, but would it be practically feasible?

I'm keen to see what people think about when face-to-face university teaching will resume. Personally, I don't think campus will reopen until (at the earliest) January 2021, but I see this being delayed if the "second peak" of infection begins to spread around the world again.

Let me know what you think!
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Jamie_1712
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I think it’s slightly insane. The vast majority of uni students are young, fit and healthy and would not be phased by coronavirus. If face to face teaching isn’t available when I go back in September I’m going to be pissed as it’s essential for my course.
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Lemon George
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(Original post by Jamie_1712)
I think it’s slightly insane. The vast majority of uni students are young, fit and healthy and would not be phased by coronavirus. If face to face teaching isn’t available when I go back in September I’m going to be pissed as it’s essential for my course.
its the local communities as well, maybe we are young but the residents of the cities/towns we are studying in are not
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e2002!
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As someone starting first year in september i will be absolutely gutted if you’re right.

I was hopefully thinking that it would start up again in september but i guess there really is no way to know until we’re closer to the time. And with unis having lectures with 100s of people i can imagine it will be difficult even if it reopens but social distancing has to be in place.
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username3164174
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(Original post by Jamie_1712)
I think it’s slightly insane. The vast majority of uni students are young, fit and healthy and would not be phased by coronavirus. If face to face teaching isn’t available when I go back in September I’m going to be pissed as it’s essential for my course.
A lot of students are young, fit and healthy, but the virus does have an effect on us. For instance, I came down with the symptoms of the virus and it really knocked me for six, whereas for a mate of mine, it had very little effect. There's less risk for sure, but we have to consider local communities, and so forth.

As for essential face-to-face teaching, it is more essential to ensure that all members of the university community are kept well, and your university should cover you under a no-detriment policy if there are concerns that this could impact your results. If you are unsure, please to enquire with the university you are studying at!
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ROC10
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(Original post by Jamie_1712)
I think it’s slightly insane. The vast majority of uni students are young, fit and healthy and would not be phased by coronavirus. If face to face teaching isn’t available when I go back in September I’m going to be pissed as it’s essential for my course.
What about those who have underlying health conditions (some may not even know they have them)? Also, what about all of the staff who are needed to conduct face-to-face teaching? Many of them will not be young and some possibly not fit and healthy either.
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1st superstar
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(Original post by OneUnitedWorld)
A lot of students are young, fit and healthy, but the virus does have an effect on us. For instance, I came down with the symptoms of the virus and it really knocked me for six, whereas for a mate of mine, it had very little effect. There's less risk for sure, but we have to consider local communities, and so forth.

As for essential face-to-face teaching, it is more essential to ensure that all members of the university community are kept well, and your university should cover you under a no-detriment policy if there are concerns that this could impact your results. If you are unsure, please to enquire with the university you are studying at!
not every uni student is "young, fit and healthy" but ok...
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username3164174
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(Original post by 1st superstar)
not every uni student is "young, fit and healthy" but ok...
"A lot of students are young, fit and healthy" - no way implying everyone
"...it is more essential to ensure that all members of the university community are kept well..." - all members of the university community include those that aren't young, fit, or healthy.

Just want to clarify so my comments aren't taken out of what was said.
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1st superstar
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(Original post by OneUnitedWorld)
"A lot of students are young, fit and healthy" - no way implying everyone
"...it is more essential to ensure that all members of the university community are kept well..." - all members of the university community include those that aren't young, fit, or healthy.

Just want to clarify so my comments aren't taken out of what was said.
ok but still don't think that students should go back to uni in September but hey I guess?
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PQ
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(Original post by Jamie_1712)
I think it’s slightly insane. The vast majority of uni students are young, fit and healthy and would not be phased by coronavirus. If face to face teaching isn’t available when I go back in September I’m going to be pissed as it’s essential for my course.
The vast majority of students are yes. But I don’t think you’re planning to teach each other are you?
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username3164174
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(Original post by 1st superstar)
ok but still don't think that students should go back to uni in September but hey I guess?
I personally think we won't see a return until 04 January, and potentially even then pushed back to March. Could we see an entire academic year taught online? I would hope not, but I daren't rule it out.
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1st superstar
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(Original post by OneUnitedWorld)
I personally think we won't see a return until 04 January, and potentially even then pushed back to March. Could we see an entire academic year taught online? I would hope not, but I daren't rule it out.
lol soo lucky that I am not gong to uni this year or next year
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Jamie_1712
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(Original post by Lemon George)
its the local communities as well, maybe we are young but the residents of the cities/towns we are studying in are not
Not entirely sure how allowing face to face classes has any affect on that.

(Original post by OneUnitedWorld)
A lot of students are young, fit and healthy, but the virus does have an effect on us. For instance, I came down with the symptoms of the virus and it really knocked me for six, whereas for a mate of mine, it had very little effect. There's less risk for sure, but we have to consider local communities, and so forth.

As for essential face-to-face teaching, it is more essential to ensure that all members of the university community are kept well, and your university should cover you under a no-detriment policy if there are concerns that this could impact your results. If you are unsure, please to enquire with the university you are studying at!
Antibody studies in New York and Amsterdam suggests the death rate of the virus to be less than 0.5% and at most 0.02% in healthy adults under 55, probably much lower. As far as I’m concerned there’s as much chance of me dying from the flu. I’d rather not sacrifice my mental health, course teaching , effectively my life, for upwards of a year. No thanks, I’d take those chances any day and I’m sure a lot of uni students would agree with me.
(Original post by ROC10)
What about those who have underlying health conditions (some may not even know they have them)? Also, what about all of the staff who are needed to conduct face-to-face teaching? Many of them will not be young and some possibly not fit and healthy either.
Well the ones who have underlying health conditions and don’t know are the probably only ones that might get severe symptoms and possibly die. As far as I’m concerned more than 20000 people have died in the Uk already, and that number is only going to rise until a vaccine is produced. If the people who are at risk continue to isolate while the healthy younger individuals get infected, we’ll start creating herd immunity so it becomes safer for those at risk in the future, with far less deaths overall in the long run.

All of my lecturers are health professionals, most of them are at risk every single day and I have no doubt that all of them would be more than willing to teach us. There’ll be far less risk to them teaching students than treating Covid19 patients.
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etienne26
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What about commuters, who live at home with possible high risk family members?
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ROC10
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(Original post by Jamie_1712)
Well the ones who have underlying health conditions and don’t know are the probably only ones that might get severe symptoms and possibly die. As far as I’m concerned more than 20000 people have died in the Uk already, and that number is only going to rise until a vaccine is produced. If the people who are at risk continue to isolate while the healthy younger individuals get infected, we’ll start creating herd immunity so it becomes safer for those at risk in the future, with far less deaths overall in the long run.

All of my lecturers are health professionals, most of them are at risk every single day and I have no doubt that all of them would be more than willing to teach us. There’ll be far less risk to them teaching students than treating Covid19 patients.
And that's okay, is it?

Well, under your strategy, wouldn't there be more people ill with Covid at any one time, meaning they'd be needed more then than now to treat these people? If they're needed for the treatment of Covid now, why wouldn't they be needed then?
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(Original post by Jamie_1712)
Not entirely sure how allowing face to face classes has any affect on that.


Antibody studies in New York and Amsterdam suggests the death rate of the virus to be less than 0.5% and at most 0.02% in healthy adults under 55, probably much lower. As far as I’m concerned there’s as much chance of me dying from the flu. I’d rather not sacrifice my mental health, course teaching , effectively my life, for upwards of a year. No thanks, I’d take those chances any day and I’m sure a lot of uni students would agree with me.


Well the ones who have underlying health conditions and don’t know are the probably only ones that might get severe symptoms and possibly die. As far as I’m concerned more than 20000 people have died in the Uk already, and that number is only going to rise until a vaccine is produced. If the people who are at risk continue to isolate while the healthy younger individuals get infected, we’ll start creating herd immunity so it becomes safer for those at risk in the future, with far less deaths overall in the long run.

All of my lecturers are health professionals, most of them are at risk every single day and I have no doubt that all of them would be more than willing to teach us. There’ll be far less risk to them teaching students than treating Covid19 patients.
- You're not going to be living in the lecture theatre are you? So allowing face to face classes will greatly increase movement on campus and further facilitate the spread of the virus. And conducting face to face classes does not just require lecturers, but staff such as technicians, cleaners and security as well who will also most likely not be young.

- You might not get sick but the people you may spread it to might. Is people losing their life, that could have been avoided by sticking to online teaching, really worth you getting some face to face teaching? I would also prefer face to face classes, but I also accept that the health and lives of others far outweigh my need for face to face teaching.

- There has been reports of increasingly younger and healthy people also dying so it does not necessarily mean young and healthy people will not develop severe symptoms or worse. All of the main diseases we currently vaccinate for have a threshold of at least 80% for herd immunity. Can you imagine how many people will die by the time we have 80% herd immunity without a vaccine? Your level of selfishness is astounding.

- If you are going to be studying a course in healthcare then you of all people should appreciate the work that healthcare professionals are currently carrying out. God forbid, but that could also be you one day if you continue onto healthcare. And our healthcare professionals are wonderful people who want to help people in need. Not all of them are in teaching, so if you force a proportion of them to go back into teaching uni students, then that is going to leave NHS services struggling even more and potentially lead to even more deaths.
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Jamie_1712
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(Original post by ROC10)
And that's okay, is it?

Well, under your strategy, wouldn't there be more people ill with Covid at any one time, meaning they'd be needed more then than now to treat these people? If they're needed for the treatment of Covid now, why wouldn't they be needed then?
No, obviously anyone dying is not ok. However, if we continue in lockdown as we are for all this time, there are still going to be vulnerable people dying, that’s the harsh reality of it. I’d rather create herd immunity for those most vulnerable people, even if it means 10,000 people dying (0.02% death rate in all healthy people under 55 (approximately 40-50 million)l There’s going to be far more deaths than that if we continue how we are. Anyhow, whenever any lockdown measures are lifted, even more people will be infected, including the vulnerable. Why not restrict it to the least vulnerable group?

There may be more people infected at a time,but the vast majority will be asymptomatic, so no it won’t increase burden on the NHS particularly. We have plenty of spare ICU beds and even built new temporary hospitals which have hardly been used. We’re nowhere near maximum capacity at the minute, and with everyone who is under 55 and healthy infected, that mean at absolute worst case scenario, about 40,000 more people in hospital (obviously won’t happen all at the same time) and at most 10,000 die.
Again, they may be needed, they may not be needed. They work shifts though so will still have free time. If things get really they’ll just call us medical students in to help which I’m more than happy to do.
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Jamie_1712
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(Original post by Anonymous)
- You're not going to be living in the lecture theatre are you? So allowing face to face classes will greatly increase movement on campus and further facilitate the spread of the virus. And conducting face to face classes does not just require lecturers, but staff such as technicians, cleaners and security as well who will also most likely not be young.

- You might not get sick but the people you may spread it to might. Is people losing their life, that could have been avoided by sticking to online teaching, really worth you getting some face to face teaching? I would also prefer face to face classes, but I also accept that the health and lives of others far outweigh my need for face to face teaching.

- There has been reports of increasingly younger and healthy people also dying so it does not necessarily mean young and healthy people will not develop severe symptoms or worse. All of the main diseases we currently vaccinate for have a threshold of at least 80% for herd immunity. Can you imagine how many people will die by the time we have 80% herd immunity without a vaccine? Your level of selfishness is astounding.

- If you are going to be studying a course in healthcare then you of all people should appreciate the work that healthcare professionals are currently carrying out. God forbid, but that could also be you one day if you continue onto healthcare. And our healthcare professionals are wonderful people who want to help people in need. Not all of them are in teaching, so if you force a proportion of them to go back into teaching uni students, then that is going to leave NHS services struggling even more and potentially lead to even more deaths.
Exactly, allowing for herd immunity to be achieved much faster. As far as staff goes, those who are vulnerable should be given a choice, I’m more than happy for people who are vulnerable to isolate if they wish until they can be vaccinated.

It’s not just about me though, you clearly haven’t read what I’ve said. I want myself and others like me to get infected so we can help create herd immunity much sooner, saving more lives in the long run, what part about that don’t you understand? Am I bothered about people dying? Yes. Am I bothered about everyone’s mental health? Yes. Am I bothered about the quality of my teaching, and others going into similarly important fields for work? Yes. Lives may outweigh it, but by doing what we’re doing currently: people will still die, possibly more than if we take my approach. I admit that on the surface it doesn’t sound intelligent but when you actual put the numbers to it, it makes sense.

I never said young people can’t develop severe symptoms or die, but the chances are so low I’m probably more likely to die in a car crash. Sure, there are reports of young people dying, but of course the news is going to report on these tragic cases. Using my idea and the latest statistics, only 10,000 people will die to reach 70%. Naturally, plenty of other people who were at risk will have already recovered and will continue to do so as time continues. Those will make up further percentages. Don’t you dare call me selfish, I’ve done nothing but follow all the regulations so far and will continue to do so. It’s not selfish, it’s simple maths; simple maths which could save many, many more lives, not only physically, but mentally as well.

Who said I don’t appreciate the work healthcare professionals do? It will be me one day, that’s why I am studying medicine, I want to be out there saving lives. I just don’t think what we’re doing right now is logical, there are better ways to save more people in this pandemic, while also getting life back to normal ASAP.

So enough with the personal attacks on me, you don’t know a thing about me. Instead you should address the points made and say why you think I’m wrong, then maybe we could have a civil discussion about it.
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username5275792
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I know this might be super late, but its seriously concerning that people are happy to increase more deaths than herd immunity, and are actually prioritising their education over innocent peoples lives seriously baffles me? Would you be happy if your family members died as a result for herd immunity.... probably not. The government's initial plan was for herd immunity and look at what that caused. For someone who mentioned about the car crash, that's an incorrect comparison, since if you have the virus you have a chance of passing it on which you can't do for a car crash.
Anyway to answer the original question, I think universities may be back to normal by November under certain circumstances. If at at the current rate the number of deaths and cases continues to decrease even with an softer lockdown then we are very close to beating the 1st wave by mid-Summer. If that's the case I can see universities opening by November or even September. Now the problem is the 2nd wave, which will come as a result of opening borders; If the borders remain strict so no international movement (apart from nationals) then the unis may still be able to operate as normal on Sept. I do hope universities open by Sept, even if it means that international students have to do their learning online (A reimbursement should be given to their studies), sure they're not getting the same experience but if they come then they will contribute to the 2nd wave and cause everyone to learn online which I think is unfair.
Either way, it should be the lecturers choice as to whether they want to conduct a lecture/tutorial/lab or not in terms of their safety, but social distancing measures can be used and people can wear masks at the end of the day.
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