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Original post by Joinedup
Brave New World is sort of comparable to 1984 
are you interested in dystopian fiction or political allegory
are you interested in dystopian fiction or political allegory
More political allegory. Have you read brave new world?
Original post by Anonymous1502
More political allegory. Have you read brave new world?
Yeah - years ago... of course a lot of Huxleys futuristic ideas seem pretty funny now - but it's worth a read.
Trouble with books people say are political allegory is a lot of the time the authors don't seem to agree, people read into books - Orwell laid it on pretty think in Animal farm - and the publishers started printing it with his forward eventually.
Heard people say that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is*really about* the cold war - but I think Tolkein always said it really was about Hobbits and Elves
Also heard Watership Down was *really about* the Holocaust - and TBH I think people are reading too much into that... I think it really is just a book about talking rabbits
Original post by Joinedup
Yeah - years ago... of course a lot of Huxleys futuristic ideas seem pretty funny now - but it's worth a read.
Trouble with books people say are political allegory is a lot of the time the authors don't seem to agree, people read into books - Orwell laid it on pretty think in Animal farm - and the publishers started printing it with his forward eventually.
Heard people say that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is*really about* the cold war - but I think Tolkein always said it really was about Hobbits and Elves
Also heard Watership Down was *really about* the Holocaust - and TBH I think people are reading too much into that... I think it really is just a book about talking rabbits
Trouble with books people say are political allegory is a lot of the time the authors don't seem to agree, people read into books - Orwell laid it on pretty think in Animal farm - and the publishers started printing it with his forward eventually.
Heard people say that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is*really about* the cold war - but I think Tolkein always said it really was about Hobbits and Elves
Also heard Watership Down was *really about* the Holocaust - and TBH I think people are reading too much into that... I think it really is just a book about talking rabbits
I also enjoy satire if you know of any books that are satirical can you recommend anything?
Oh right - they're all rather old but
Catch 22 - Joseph Heller is allegorical and satirical and also really funny
I think any novel by Tom Sharpe - Riotous Assembly was the first one I read and my favourite
The History Man - Malcolm Bradbury is less laugh out loud funny, but a favourite. obviously a bit dated in some regards but surprisingly current in others too.
Clive James - Unreliable memoirs (semi fictionalised autobiography I guess) I thought it was laugh out loud funny.
Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance by Robert Pirsig - switches between allegory and reality and I was pretty clear about which was which when I was reading it, but I've spoken to people who've read it and thought the real bits were allegory too... there wasn't a lot of information available about the author before the internet but if you look it up now the motorcycle was indeed a real motorcycle (not an allegorical one) and is now owned by the smithsonian. Haven't re-read it in a while cos I lent my copy to someone who never gave it back
the last one - not really a laugh out loud book tbh
Catch 22 - Joseph Heller is allegorical and satirical and also really funny
I think any novel by Tom Sharpe - Riotous Assembly was the first one I read and my favourite
The History Man - Malcolm Bradbury is less laugh out loud funny, but a favourite. obviously a bit dated in some regards but surprisingly current in others too.
Clive James - Unreliable memoirs (semi fictionalised autobiography I guess) I thought it was laugh out loud funny.
Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance by Robert Pirsig - switches between allegory and reality and I was pretty clear about which was which when I was reading it, but I've spoken to people who've read it and thought the real bits were allegory too... there wasn't a lot of information available about the author before the internet but if you look it up now the motorcycle was indeed a real motorcycle (not an allegorical one) and is now owned by the smithsonian. Haven't re-read it in a while cos I lent my copy to someone who never gave it back
the last one - not really a laugh out loud book tbh
Original post by Anonymous1502
I also enjoy satire if you know of any books that are satirical can you recommend anything?
Bulgakov: The Master and Margarita.
Exquisite and unique.
Original post by Joinedup
Yeah - years ago... of course a lot of Huxleys futuristic ideas seem pretty funny now - but it's worth a read.
It has just been filmed for the third time.
It is a challenge for a director because the key issue is what do you keep, what do you discard and what do you update to keep its message relevant.
I enjoyed Ben Elton's modern 'take' on 1984, Blind Faith. It is in some ways a bit of a lazy book, trashy in places, but in a lot of ways a lot more spookily relatable to modern west culture (uncannily so right now) and worth a look IMO
Original post by nulli tertius
It has just been filmed for the third time.
It is a challenge for a director because the key issue is what do you keep, what do you discard and what do you update to keep its message relevant.
It is a challenge for a director because the key issue is what do you keep, what do you discard and what do you update to keep its message relevant.
Wasn't aware tbh...The books always have better pictures tho
Guess the authors want to invent details about a popular culture extrapolated forward a bit from what's current when they're writing to make it seem plausible it to the reader? Think a lot of these authors get it right that there's a widespread human urge to blot out reality one way or another - might be quite a fundamental part of our make up.
If OP likes that sort of thing then maybe Oryx & Crake by Margaret Atwood who unusually isn't dead... or a man - Where I'd say the oppressor turns out to be 'silicon valley' libertarians rather than big government... not that it really makes any difference to the people on the receiving end of course.
Original post by Joinedup
Yeah - years ago... of course a lot of Huxleys futuristic ideas seem pretty funny now - but it's worth a read.
Trouble with books people say are political allegory is a lot of the time the authors don't seem to agree, people read into books - Orwell laid it on pretty think in Animal farm - and the publishers started printing it with his forward eventually.
Heard people say that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is*really about* the cold war - but I think Tolkein always said it really was about Hobbits and Elves
Also heard Watership Down was *really about* the Holocaust - and TBH I think people are reading too much into that... I think it really is just a book about talking rabbits
Trouble with books people say are political allegory is a lot of the time the authors don't seem to agree, people read into books - Orwell laid it on pretty think in Animal farm - and the publishers started printing it with his forward eventually.
Heard people say that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is*really about* the cold war - but I think Tolkein always said it really was about Hobbits and Elves
Also heard Watership Down was *really about* the Holocaust - and TBH I think people are reading too much into that... I think it really is just a book about talking rabbits
Interesting, almost comic examples above. I have to confess that when in Disney's Jungle Book King Louie wants "the secret of man's red fire", it immediately brought to mind Russia's quest for the A-bomb America already had. I know, just as silly as the above examples.
On the other hand, we're told that Dr Seuss's Yertle the Turtle is fundamentally about Hitler, but that never occurred to me... although it might have done if I'd seen his wealth of wartime patriotic cartoons.
Going back the OP, all three novels share the feature of ending in defeat/despair. For another one that explores big threats to humanity but which comes right in the end, I suggest That Hideous Strength.
Original post by Wilma W.
Bulgakov: The Master and Margarita.
Exquisite and unique.
Exquisite and unique.
I have read it already
I enjoyed the 1st half of the book way more than the 2nd half. The ending was very ambiguous to be honest I don't really understand it.Original post by Justvisited
Interesting, almost comic examples above. I have to confess that when in Disney's Jungle Book King Louie wants "the secret of man's red fire", it immediately brought to mind Russia's quest for the A-bomb America already had. I know, just as silly as the above examples.
On the other hand, we're told that Dr Seuss's Yertle the Turtle is fundamentally about Hitler, but that never occurred to me... although it might have done if I'd seen his wealth of wartime patriotic cartoons.
Going back the OP, all three novels share the feature of ending in defeat/despair. For another one that explores big threats to humanity but which comes right in the end, I suggest That Hideous Strength.
On the other hand, we're told that Dr Seuss's Yertle the Turtle is fundamentally about Hitler, but that never occurred to me... although it might have done if I'd seen his wealth of wartime patriotic cartoons.
Going back the OP, all three novels share the feature of ending in defeat/despair. For another one that explores big threats to humanity but which comes right in the end, I suggest That Hideous Strength.
Jazz loving King Louis looked like a lot more fun than the dour USSR tbh.
no offence - these are notionally 'for kids'
Kipling's Just so stories - to remind ourselves that we actually prefer explaining reality to ourselves by constructing an appealing story
Aesop's fables - a lot of archetypal parables, sort of written from an outsider perspective (Aesop was supposedly a slave)
The most authentic progression from Orwell is, in my eyes, Kafka. I view him as the more interesting abstract predecessor to Orwell. I would read 'The Trial' as a starting point and then 'metamorphosis'.
Original post by Anonymous1502
I have read it already I enjoyed the 1st half of the book way more than the 2nd half. The ending was very ambiguous to be honest I don't really understand it.
I enjoyed the 1st half of the book way more than the 2nd half. The ending was very ambiguous to be honest I don't really understand it.I read it about 4 times. I still have questions, but getting nearer:-)
Original post by XVIICIC
The most authentic progression from Orwell is, in my eyes, Kafka. I view him as the more interesting abstract predecessor to Orwell. I would read 'The Trial' as a starting point and then 'metamorphosis'.
For me Kafka surpasses Orwell hands down:-)
Original post by Wilma W.
I read it about 4 times. I still have questions, but getting nearer:-)
Wow 4 times! What do you make of it? I really liked the character of Behemoth (the big cat) I really enjoyed reading about the havoc that the devil has caused in Moscow. I don't think that the character of the master brings much to the novel in my opinion. What do you make of the ending? What do you think happened?
Original post by Anonymous1502
Wow 4 times! What do you make of it? I really liked the character of Behemoth (the big cat) I really enjoyed reading about the havoc that the devil has caused in Moscow. I don't think that the character of the master brings much to the novel in my opinion. What do you make of the ending? What do you think happened?
I love Behemoth too! He is so funny! (You remember him playing chess:-D?)
When I first read the novel I also thought the Master is quite vague as a character, but later I found that his story is somehow a parallel with the martyrdom of Jesua. But only in a satirical form if you know what I mean, and as such it is rather fascinating.
As for the end, He and Margarita cannot really be saved for each other in the real world, they seemingly die, but get taken away to the other realm where they can be together eternally.
And although Moscow goes back to the same old petty and corrupt functioning as before the visit of Woland&Co there are some lasting effects of the action packed four(?) days.
I'm not sure if my understanding is correct, but these are the impressions I gathered.
What do you think?
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