angusgmoncrieff
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Does anybody know anything about this course? Is it like a combination of Classics, Ancient history and Archaeology.

Also, If you were planning on applying for Ancient History at the remaining 4 universities could you still do so, or would it be too hard considering you are only allowed to submit one PS to UCAS. Basically, would a PS for ancient history differ greatly than one for Ancient World, or could you make it applicable for both courses?
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Lizzillo
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I've read the module info on their site, and it seems to be a mix of ancient language, archeology, history and literature, which is pretty standard for a BA in Ancient History esque. Usually an Ancient History degree wouldn't require you take Latin or ancient Greek, beyond that it looks the same sort of module mix you would be find for Ancient History. Classics would require a language so it seems to be a meet on the middle/their own take/name on the standard with added archeology. And most Ancient History students can take language modules anyway and usually do.

I think a personal statement would cover all of them, I don't really see any difference in modules, teaching or era between Ancient World or Ancient History other than the language. Just don't refer to the degree title directly and they wouldn't know. It does seem to similar modules and the rest, so use the same PS, just emphasise your passion for the ancient world, be it in language, literature, history, daily lives etc. Lots of the unis you apply for will have similar module names/focuses, so you could mention some of the bits you like the most and are most excited about. Good luck!
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angusgmoncrieff
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(Original post by Lizzillo)
I've read the module info on their site, and it seems to be a mix of ancient language, archeology, history and literature, which is pretty standard for a BA in Ancient History esque. Usually an Ancient History degree wouldn't require you take Latin or ancient Greek, beyond that it looks the same sort of module mix you would be find for Ancient History. Classics would require a language so it seems to be a meet on the middle/their own take/name on the standard with added archeology. And most Ancient History students can take language modules anyway and usually do.

I think a personal statement would cover all of them, I don't really see any difference in modules, teaching or era between Ancient World or Ancient History other than the language. Just don't refer to the degree title directly and they wouldn't know. It does seem to similar modules and the rest, so use the same PS, just emphasise your passion for the ancient world, be it in language, literature, history, daily lives etc. Lots of the unis you apply for will have similar module names/focuses, so you could mention some of the bits you like the most and are most excited about. Good luck!
I don't take an Ancient Language Higher (equivalent to A-level), could I still apply? I do take Higher French and Classics, would this make up for the fact that I don't do Latin or Greek. On the UCL website, it says that there are no required subjects for the Ancient World course, but on The Uni Guide it does say that one of the most common A-levels taken by those currently studying the Ancient World course is Latin. Would not taking an Ancient language put me at a severe disadvantage? If I showed that I have a passion for learning Latin or Greek on my PS by taking an online course etc would I still be considered (bearing in mind that I exceed the entry requirements).
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Lizzillo
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It says you don't need a langague, but you have to do it 1st and 2nd year of uni. If you plan on doing any Postgrad with it you'd need Latin or ancient Greek anyway. I find Latin easier as it ties into English and French more, and no new alphabet.

In the UK, only 4% of secondary schools teach ancient Greek, and mostly private schools do Latin, so wherever you read that I'd say is untrue. Not one student in my year has done Alevel Latin, though a few did it for Gcse. Most of the students on my Ancient History degree have done a History Alevel, a few have done Classics (again, not that commonly taught) and some Ancient History (again, not that common). I'd say most students have never studied anything in this era before besides Roman Britain before taking the degree. They usually require some essay/history style subjects to prove you can write and do the degree. The fact you have Classics stands you in good stead. Most UK students choose Ancient because they have an interest in it and as the degree opens the same doors as standard History, just a different era (ie, you can still do History teaching training with an Ancient History degree).

I don't think you need to do any extra courses or even mention it beyond you already speak French and English and want to see how Latin ties into the languages. If you wanted to get a head start on learning a language though, crack on, it won't do you any harm. There are plenty of apps (Duolingo), websites and books that could help you start to learb the basics.

Also to add, Classics and its related subjects aren't very popular degree courses and as such universities are trying to get as many students onto the degrees as possible (everything is Stem currently and humanities are seen as less useful) so you'll more than likely find you get a lot of offers anyway, even without a language. Assassin's Creed games have helped, but on the whole UK wide, every year fewer and fewer students sign up for any Classics related degree, which is why they require no certain qualifications.

Which other unis are you looking into besides UCL? For this sort of subject, seeing as there are only 26ish universities that offer this, check out each programme and the modules and see which fit your interests best. No good going to a uni where the staff and modules are mainly Roman focused if your interest is Greece. And if you are going to do a degree, may as well try to enjoy as many modules as possible.
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angusgmoncrieff
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(Original post by Lizzillo)
It says you don't need a langague, but you have to do it 1st and 2nd year of uni. If you plan on doing any Postgrad with it you'd need Latin or ancient Greek anyway. I find Latin easier as it ties into English and French more, and no new alphabet.

In the UK, only 4% of secondary schools teach ancient Greek, and mostly private schools do Latin, so wherever you read that I'd say is untrue. Not one student in my year has done Alevel Latin, though a few did it for Gcse. Most of the students on my Ancient History degree have done a History Alevel, a few have done Classics (again, not that commonly taught) and some Ancient History (again, not that common). I'd say most students have never studied anything in this era before besides Roman Britain before taking the degree. They usually require some essay/history style subjects to prove you can write and do the degree. The fact you have Classics stands you in good stead. Most UK students choose Ancient because they have an interest in it and as the degree opens the same doors as standard History, just a different era (ie, you can still do History teaching training with an Ancient History degree).

I don't think you need to do any extra courses or even mention it beyond you already speak French and English and want to see how Latin ties into the languages. If you wanted to get a head start on learning a language though, crack on, it won't do you any harm. There are plenty of apps (Duolingo), websites and books that could help you start to learb the basics.

Also to add, Classics and its related subjects aren't very popular degree courses and as such universities are trying to get as many students onto the degrees as possible (everything is Stem currently and humanities are seen as less useful) so you'll more than likely find you get a lot of offers anyway, even without a language. Assassin's Creed games have helped, but on the whole UK wide, every year fewer and fewer students sign up for any Classics related degree, which is why they require no certain qualifications.

Which other unis are you looking into besides UCL? For this sort of subject, seeing as there are only 26ish universities that offer this, check out each programme and the modules and see which fit your interests best. No good going to a uni where the staff and modules are mainly Roman focused if your interest is Greece. And if you are going to do a degree, may as well try to enjoy as many modules as possible.
Did you find it hard to write your PS for Ancient History because you had never studied it in school?


I have been looking at many universities and have managed to narrow it down to 8:


King’s College London – Ancient History or Classics

UCL – Ancient world

University of Glasgow – Ancient History or Classics

University of Bristol – Ancient History or Classics

Edinburgh University – Ancient History or Classics

University of Exeter – History and Ancient History

University of Leeds – Ancient History and Classics or Classical Civilisation

University of Manchester – Ancient History and Classics or Classical Studies


Also, what books would you recommend that I read to boost my PS?


Thank you for the great feedback that you have given me so far, it has been helpful
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Lizzillo
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(Original post by angusgmoncrieff)
Did you find it hard to write your PS for Ancient History because you had never studied it in school?


I have been looking at many universities and have managed to narrow it down to 8:


King’s College London – Ancient History or Classics

UCL – Ancient world

University of Glasgow – Ancient History or Classics

University of Bristol – Ancient History or Classics

Edinburgh University – Ancient History or Classics

University of Exeter – History and Ancient History

University of Leeds – Ancient History and Classics or Classical Civilisation

University of Manchester – Ancient History and Classics or Classical Studies


Also, what books would you recommend that I read to boost my PS?


Thank you for the great feedback that you have given me so far, it has been helpful
I applied direct to the uni as I was a mature student so didn't need a PS, but I had done an Alevel on Classical Civilisation. But it doesn't matter, you studied Classics. Talk about your love of Homer, or how you want to understand their daily lives, or the gods , or even just their military tactics. You've picked this degree for a reason, you don't need to show off knowledge, you just need to show your love of the subject.

Good choices! Look at the modules and then the staff, see if any of the staff work on anything that interests you - Classics departments tend to be quite small so you'll work with the staff a lot, particularly in 3rd year when you do a dissertation, so make sure there is enough staff that have similar interests as you. 2 unis by me offer Ancient History, yet as my interest is in Greece, the one with mainly Roman modules wasn't going to be as good for me.

If you haven't looked already I'd recommend my own uni - Swansea University. It's a small department with great staff and modules, including Egyptology (and we have an Egyptian museum on campus), and the city and campus is right on the beach. Its a good uni and the staff are brilliant, including the Student Welfare side of things. The department even holds film nights for staff and students - we watched The Mummy and Hercules (Disney, yay) last year.

Book wise, the Stephen Fey series Heroes and Mythos is really good, he's definitely brought the ancient gods and stories more mainstream and he references everything in his usual funny style, even my lecturers have read them and approved. Even playing the Assassin's Creeds games, while not fully accurate, really brings some things to life, and we've discussed them in class. Things like Homer, Ovid, Plutarch will come up in your degree, so you if you wanted a headstart or just to read over the summer they are a good choice (and cheap).

If you have an interest in Latin or Ancient Greek, https://www.bloomsbury.com/cw/latin-...parts-1-and-2/ This series of workbooks is great. They offer both Greek and Latin to help you do a GCSE and up, and they are pretty cheap. It's the workbook my uni uses for teaching (as usually there will be different classes depending on your level with the language: beginner - no Latin, intermediate - done a gcse/low Alevel, advanced - Alevel and expert.) I've never studied Latin and I've found the workbooks great and really in depth yet simple, with lots of questions and tasks. Since your summer will be spent indoors now, maybe worth trying to learn one of them, even if you don't end up taking a language as a module, it's still fun to learn and see how our words are shaped by theirs.

Anytime! I really believe and love this subject and would love to see the subject grow and for more people to study it. The amount of times I've told someone my degree and they say 'wow. I love XYZ' and then add 'useless degree though' is annoying. Who do they think runs museums, or helps movies stay accurate or teaches their children?! Hopefully me answering your questions helps you decide where and what you want to study, in which case that's great, go convince some friends now too! 🤣
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Edminzodo
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So I did Egyptology at Liverpool (which offers a large range of combinations in its wider department), but I would say try to write a standard Ancient History PS with a paragraph on the Ancient World. I applied for Egyptology, Egyptian Archaeology, Egyptology and Ancient History, and Ancient History. In my experience, universities are very understanding when you are applying to niche courses.
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angusgmoncrieff
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(Original post by Edminzodo)
So I did Egyptology at Liverpool (which offers a large range of combinations in its wider department), but I would say try to write a standard Ancient History PS with a paragraph on the Ancient World. I applied for Egyptology, Egyptian Archaeology, Egyptology and Ancient History, and Ancient History. In my experience, universities are very understanding when you are applying to niche courses.
(Original post by Lizzillo)
I applied direct to the uni as I was a mature student so didn't need a PS, but I had done an Alevel on Classical Civilisation. But it doesn't matter, you studied Classics. Talk about your love of Homer, or how you want to understand their daily lives, or the gods , or even just their military tactics. You've picked this degree for a reason, you don't need to show off knowledge, you just need to show your love of the subject.

Good choices! Look at the modules and then the staff, see if any of the staff work on anything that interests you - Classics departments tend to be quite small so you'll work with the staff a lot, particularly in 3rd year when you do a dissertation, so make sure there is enough staff that have similar interests as you. 2 unis by me offer Ancient History, yet as my interest is in Greece, the one with mainly Roman modules wasn't going to be as good for me.

If you haven't looked already I'd recommend my own uni - Swansea University. It's a small department with great staff and modules, including Egyptology (and we have an Egyptian museum on campus), and the city and campus is right on the beach. Its a good uni and the staff are brilliant, including the Student Welfare side of things. The department even holds film nights for staff and students - we watched The Mummy and Hercules (Disney, yay) last year.

Book wise, the Stephen Fey series Heroes and Mythos is really good, he's definitely brought the ancient gods and stories more mainstream and he references everything in his usual funny style, even my lecturers have read them and approved. Even playing the Assassin's Creeds games, while not fully accurate, really brings some things to life, and we've discussed them in class. Things like Homer, Ovid, Plutarch will come up in your degree, so you if you wanted a headstart or just to read over the summer they are a good choice (and cheap).

If you have an interest in Latin or Ancient Greek, https://www.bloomsbury.com/cw/latin-...parts-1-and-2/ This series of workbooks is great. They offer both Greek and Latin to help you do a GCSE and up, and they are pretty cheap. It's the workbook my uni uses for teaching (as usually there will be different classes depending on your level with the language: beginner - no Latin, intermediate - done a gcse/low Alevel, advanced - Alevel and expert.) I've never studied Latin and I've found the workbooks great and really in depth yet simple, with lots of questions and tasks. Since your summer will be spent indoors now, maybe worth trying to learn one of them, even if you don't end up taking a language as a module, it's still fun to learn and see how our words are shaped by theirs.

Anytime! I really believe and love this subject and would love to see the subject grow and for more people to study it. The amount of times I've told someone my degree and they say 'wow. I love XYZ' and then add 'useless degree though' is annoying. Who do they think runs museums, or helps movies stay accurate or teaches their children?! Hopefully me answering your questions helps you decide where and what you want to study, in which case that's great, go convince some friends now too! 🤣
Thank you so much for your replies!

My school does offer Latin, but I did not take it (I wasn't really interested in doing a Classics degree when I was choosing my National 5/GCSE subjects). Is there any chance that they will this be held against me, particularly by competitive universities such as UCL etc.

Also, if you wouldn't mind me asking how many are on your course?
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Edminzodo
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(Original post by angusgmoncrieff)
Thank you so much for your replies!

My school does offer Latin, but I did not take it (I wasn't really interested in doing a Classics degree when I was choosing my National 5/GCSE subjects). Is there any chance that they will this be held against me, particularly by competitive universities such as UCL etc.

Also, if you wouldn't mind me asking how many are on your course?
At Liverpool, there is a flexible system so an Ancient History class in first year could have 60-80 students in a lecture, as people from the History and Politics departments, or studying Egyptology or Archaeology, could take the Ancient History modules. This was down to about 30 or 40 at most by third year. In terms of language, I think introductory Latin had about 15 students. Liverpool offered 6 levels of Latin and Greek so some classes were very small, and some larger, depending on the year. I think Level 6 Greek (which could only be taken in final year if you had a high grade A-Level in Greek) had 1 student, but that's an exception. Ancient studies courses are usually a really nice size - mine was, for sure.

I know someone who did Classics at KCL and didn't do any of the subjects beforehand, but they took Latin GCSE in Y13, or at least sat in on the classes, to make up for it and show motivation. Ask your teachers to explain this in their references, and really show how passionate you are now. It shouldn't be held against you in my opinion (it would probably be if you'd had the option at A-Level but not taken it, but at the age of 13 or 14 you wouldn't've known so I think they will be more understanding). You could always email them and see if they want it mentioned in the PS, but I think it's something that would be covered better in the reference.
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angusgmoncrieff
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(Original post by Edminzodo)
At Liverpool, there is a flexible system so an Ancient History class in first year could have 60-80 students in a lecture, as people from the History and Politics departments, or studying Egyptology or Archaeology, could take the Ancient History modules. This was down to about 30 or 40 at most by third year. In terms of language, I think introductory Latin had about 15 students. Liverpool offered 6 levels of Latin and Greek so some classes were very small, and some larger, depending on the year. I think Level 6 Greek (which could only be taken in final year if you had a high grade A-Level in Greek) had 1 student, but that's an exception. Ancient studies courses are usually a really nice size - mine was, for sure.

I know someone who did Classics at KCL and didn't do any of the subjects beforehand, but they took Latin GCSE in Y13, or at least sat in on the classes, to make up for it and show motivation. Ask your teachers to explain this in their references, and really show how passionate you are now. It shouldn't be held against you in my opinion (it would probably be if you'd had the option at A-Level but not taken it, but at the age of 13 or 14 you wouldn't've known so I think they will be more understanding). You could always email them and see if they want it mentioned in the PS, but I think it's something that would be covered better in the reference.
So, would the universities know that my school offers Latin?
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Edminzodo
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(Original post by angusgmoncrieff)
So, would the universities know that my school offers Latin?
Hmm. I would say it's unlikely, unless someone was applying for the same course from your school, but I'm not too sure. I think your school would be best placed to advise.
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angusgmoncrieff
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(Original post by Edminzodo)
Hmm. I would say it's unlikely, unless someone was applying for the same course from your school, but I'm not too sure. I think your school would be best placed to advise.
Sorry for asking so many questions, but would you say that Classics is quite competitive because it is a small course...
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Edminzodo
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(Original post by angusgmoncrieff)
Sorry for asking so many questions, but would you say that Classics is quite competitive because it is a small course...
No worries, ask away I don't think it's particularly competitive, but it's obviously more competitive at top universities. I think Oxford takes 1 in 3 or 2 in 5, and that's one of the most competitive courses in the UK for Classics. You can find some stats for UCL here but I don't think they have Classics, sadly: https://www.admissionreport.com/univ...-undergraduate (might be worth looking at the acceptance rates for other universities). Out of my friends who applied for ancient based subjects, they all applied to universities within their predicted range, and no one got rejected except for from Oxbridge. I don't think they take absolutely *everyone*, but it's not as competitive as many other larger courses.
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angusgmoncrieff
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Thank you for your quick reply. So, do you think it is fair to say that if you meet the requirements you are more than likely going to be given an offer.
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Lizzillo
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I'd say Classics at anywhere but Oxbridge level isn't that competitive. There aren't enough students wanting the degree to make it so fiece as other subjects.

The fact you didnt take Latin won't be held against you at all, it isn't even a requirement. You took Classics, which is more than most and already shows you have knowledge. And the uni wouldn't know unless you mentioned you didn't take (but why would you say this?).

My whole year in the Classics department, which handles Ancient History, Egyptology and Classics has about 60-70 students in. The first year mandatory lectures have everyone, but after that the classes can be as small as 10. Language vs lasses rarely go above 15 for beginners and 5 for the higher levels, and seminars are always limited to under 15 students, so it's nice and small with plenty of 1 in 1 time.

And yes, you will definitely get offers as you not only have Classics but you've met the minimum standards. Also, next year lots of students won't be applying due to bad predicted grades and there will be no international students. Just show in your PS how interested you are in the ancients and you'll be absolutely fine. I'd say even if you didn't meet your requirements and missed them slightly, you would definitely get a place through clearing as these degrees always have spare spaces (I rang in July and was offered a place the same day over the phone).
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angusgmoncrieff
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(Original post by Lizzillo)
I'd say Classics at anywhere but Oxbridge level isn't that competitive. There aren't enough students wanting the degree to make it so fiece as other subjects.

The fact you didnt take Latin won't be held against you at all, it isn't even a requirement. You took Classics, which is more than most and already shows you have knowledge. And the uni wouldn't know unless you mentioned you didn't take (but why would you say this?).

My whole year in the Classics department, which handles Ancient History, Egyptology and Classics has about 60-70 students in. The first year mandatory lectures have everyone, but after that the classes can be as small as 10. Language vs lasses rarely go above 15 for beginners and 5 for the higher levels, and seminars are always limited to under 15 students, so it's nice and small with plenty of 1 in 1 time.

And yes, you will definitely get offers as you not only have Classics but you've met the minimum standards. Also, next year lots of students won't be applying due to bad predicted grades and there will be no international students. Just show in your PS how interested you are in the ancients and you'll be absolutely fine. I'd say even if you didn't meet your requirements and missed them slightly, you would definitely get a place through clearing as these degrees always have spare spaces (I rang in July and was offered a place the same day over the phone).
(Original post by Edminzodo)
No worries, ask away I don't think it's particularly competitive, but it's obviously more competitive at top universities. I think Oxford takes 1 in 3 or 2 in 5, and that's one of the most competitive courses in the UK for Classics. You can find some stats for UCL here but I don't think they have Classics, sadly: https://www.admissionreport.com/univ...-undergraduate (might be worth looking at the acceptance rates for other universities). Out of my friends who applied for ancient based subjects, they all applied to universities within their predicted range, and no one got rejected except for from Oxbridge. I don't think they take absolutely *everyone*, but it's not as competitive as many other larger courses.
Thank you both so much
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(Original post by Lizzillo)
I applied direct to the uni as I was a mature student so didn't need a PS, but I had done an Alevel on Classical Civilisation. But it doesn't matter, you studied Classics. Talk about your love of Homer, or how you want to understand their daily lives, or the gods , or even just their military tactics. You've picked this degree for a reason, you don't need to show off knowledge, you just need to show your love of the subject.

Good choices! Look at the modules and then the staff, see if any of the staff work on anything that interests you - Classics departments tend to be quite small so you'll work with the staff a lot, particularly in 3rd year when you do a dissertation, so make sure there is enough staff that have similar interests as you. 2 unis by me offer Ancient History, yet as my interest is in Greece, the one with mainly Roman modules wasn't going to be as good for me.

If you haven't looked already I'd recommend my own uni - Swansea University. It's a small department with great staff and modules, including Egyptology (and we have an Egyptian museum on campus), and the city and campus is right on the beach. Its a good uni and the staff are brilliant, including the Student Welfare side of things. The department even holds film nights for staff and students - we watched The Mummy and Hercules (Disney, yay) last year.

Book wise, the Stephen Fey series Heroes and Mythos is really good, he's definitely brought the ancient gods and stories more mainstream and he references everything in his usual funny style, even my lecturers have read them and approved. Even playing the Assassin's Creeds games, while not fully accurate, really brings some things to life, and we've discussed them in class. Things like Homer, Ovid, Plutarch will come up in your degree, so you if you wanted a headstart or just to read over the summer they are a good choice (and cheap).

If you have an interest in Latin or Ancient Greek, https://www.bloomsbury.com/cw/latin-...parts-1-and-2/ This series of workbooks is great. They offer both Greek and Latin to help you do a GCSE and up, and they are pretty cheap. It's the workbook my uni uses for teaching (as usually there will be different classes depending on your level with the language: beginner - no Latin, intermediate - done a gcse/low Alevel, advanced - Alevel and expert.) I've never studied Latin and I've found the workbooks great and really in depth yet simple, with lots of questions and tasks. Since your summer will be spent indoors now, maybe worth trying to learn one of them, even if you don't end up taking a language as a module, it's still fun to learn and see how our words are shaped by theirs.

Anytime! I really believe and love this subject and would love to see the subject grow and for more people to study it. The amount of times I've told someone my degree and they say 'wow. I love XYZ' and then add 'useless degree though' is annoying. Who do they think runs museums, or helps movies stay accurate or teaches their children?! Hopefully me answering your questions helps you decide where and what you want to study, in which case that's great, go convince some friends now too! 🤣
Thank you so much for the recommendations! Nice one. I am currently a mature student looking for a Latin A level for mature students so I can apply for Classics. Do you know of any colleges that do? If not could I ask where the Classical Civilisation A level you did was and were there many mature students?

Kind regards,
Shobi
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