Official TSR Thread: Summary of new university measures including student caps

They should ban conditional unconditionals anyway. Otherwise, this all makes a lot of sense.

Reply 2

Will mean that universities will be less flexible then.

Reply 3

How big is the cap on numbers and what will this mean for places?

Reply 4

How big will the cap be and what will this mean for places

Reply 5

username4867806

Universities Forum Helper

This is one reason why A-Level results day should have been made earlier. There is going to be more uncertainty than normal but still the same amount of time to sort all of it out. This just places even more pressure and stress on students, parents, teachers, and university staff.

Petition - Bring Forward 2020 A-level and GCSE Results Days - https://www.change.org/p/ofqual-bring-forward-2020-a-level-results-day?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_21777723_en-GB%3Av11&recruiter=126514945&recruited_by_id=a42305b5-fef9-4d75-9ff9-44db2c8c37f7&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial

Reply 6

Becca216

22

Original post by Treetop321

This is one reason why A-Level results day should have been made earlier. There is going to be more uncertainty than normal but still the same amount of time to sort all of it out. This just places even more pressure and stress on students, parents, teachers, and university staff.

Petition - Bring Forward 2020 A-level and GCSE Results Days - https://www.change.org/p/ofqual-bring-forward-2020-a-level-results-day?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_21777723_en-GB%3Av11&recruiter=126514945&recruited_by_id=a42305b5-fef9-4d75-9ff9-44db2c8c37f7&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial

I see your point but there is no chance that they are going to bring forward results day - it is going to take a long time for teachers to calculate students grades and make sure that it is as accurate as possible, then the exam boards have got to make sure it is fair compared to other years (x% of students that get an A* is roughly the same % as last year) and they also have to make sure that teachers aren't being to harsh or lenient or biased towards students as much as possible - it's a long and new process so it is highly unlikely that they will be able to bring results day forward - also bariing in mind that some teachers will have both a-level and gcse students to sort out

Reply 7

Theloniouss

Original post by m17br

How big is the cap on numbers and what will this mean for places?

it says 5% above forecasted intake, so for most universities that will be about 5% more than last year.

Reply 8

username4867806

Original post by Becca216

I see your point but there is no chance that they are going to bring forward results day - it is going to take a long time for teachers to calculate students grades and make sure that it is as accurate as possible, then the exam boards have got to make sure it is fair compared to other years (x% of students that get an A* is roughly the same % as last year) and they also have to make sure that teachers aren't being to harsh or lenient or biased towards students as much as possible - it's a long and new process so it is highly unlikely that they will be able to bring results day forward - also bariing in mind that some teachers will have both a-level and gcse students to sort out

Every single teacher that I've heard from has said they already know what grades they will give to students (although to be fair this isn't that many teachers). Do exam boards really need that long? To me, it just seems a bit suspicious. How much control are teachers really having on our grades? How willing will exam boards be to change our grades? If exam boards tell us why it takes this long, I will be more accepting, but so far no one has said why it is so late.

OP

Original post by m17br

Will mean that universities will be less flexible then.

It's hard to know at the minute, but the Government have said universities will try and be as flexible as possible - it might be a good idea to see if the university you're interested in has any extra information on what this flexibility means to them on their website.

Original post by m17br

How big is the cap on numbers and what will this mean for places?

So it's based on the forcasted numbers that each university has predicted they will be accepting for home, full-time students. They then have lee-way of +/- 5%, so they can be flexible in that way. As each university has their own forecasted numbers, it will be dependent on a whole host of things as to what it could mean for places, for example how competitive they are and how many applications they already have.

Reply 10

harrysbar

Original post by Treetop321

This is one reason why A-Level results day should have been made earlier. There is going to be more uncertainty than normal but still the same amount of time to sort all of it out. This just places even more pressure and stress on students, parents, teachers, and university staff.

Petition - Bring Forward 2020 A-level and GCSE Results Days - https://www.change.org/p/ofqual-bring-forward-2020-a-level-results-day?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_21777723_en-GB%3Av11&recruiter=126514945&recruited_by_id=a42305b5-fef9-4d75-9ff9-44db2c8c37f7&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial

Agree and think that A level results day should at least have been brought forward to the same day as the Scottish results come out, in order to give the whole of the UK an equal chance of accessing the uni vacancies that will be available in "enhanced Clearing"

Reply 11

alicelane95!

19

Will be deferring a year then if that's the case. I'm not paying 9 grand for online course. My lecturers this year have shown they can't handle doing an online classes for even the last few weeks of Term 2, yet I'm expected the believe they can for a whole year? Jog on.

Reply 12

Original post by StrawberryDreams

It's hard to know at the minute, but the Government have said universities will try and be as flexible as possible - it might be a good idea to see if the university you're interested in has any extra information on what this flexibility means to them on their website.

So it's based on the forcasted numbers that each university has predicted they will be accepting for home, full-time students. They then have lee-way of +/- 5%, so they can be flexible in that way. As each university has their own forecasted numbers, it will be dependent on a whole host of things as to what it could mean for places, for example how competitive they are and how many applications they already have.

Sorry - I probably sound quite thick. So it basically means that student numbers can only be either 5% higher or lower than what previous heats have been? So a control mechanism?

Like I said, I might sound a bit stupid here but surely that wouldn’t affect student numbers. I know universities have been creeping their numbers up recently and 5% would be quite similar to the number that they increase by per year?

Reply 13

SarcAndSpark

20

Original post by m17br

Will mean that universities will be less flexible then.

It depends. Sorry, I know that's not super helpful!

If lots of people miss their offers, then unis will be more flexible, as they will still want to fill their places. If lots of people hit their offers, there may be less room for flexibility.

Unis are probably going to miss out on EU/International students, so there may actually be more spaces available for home students.

With the cap being set at forecast +5%, this isn't a really tight cap- most unis don't have the infrastructure to go massively over on their forecasted student numbers each year. The aim is to stop unis accepting loads of home students to try and replace all the international students they may be missing, rather than to have home students miss out on places they would otherwise get.

Reply 14

TheLittlestElf

14

No thanks. Michelle Donelan is completely out of touch

Reply 15

SarcAndSpark

20

Original post by m17br

Sorry - I probably sound quite thick. So it basically means that student numbers can only be either 5% higher or lower than what previous heats have been? So a control mechanism?

Like I said, I might sound a bit stupid here but surely that wouldn’t affect student numbers. I know universities have been creeping their numbers up recently and 5% would be quite similar to the number that they increase by per year?

This isn't a stupid question.

The reason these caps have been brought in is that most unis accept a proportion of international/EU students each year. The assumption is that many of those students won't want to/won't be allowed to come to the UK this September. If there was no cap, unis at the top could fill all those places with home students instead (taking a lot more home students than they usually would in some cases). This would leave some unis without enough students to fill courses- making those courses financially non-viable, and perhaps causing the uni real financial problems.

If it turns out international students want to come as normal in September, the cap won't have much of an affect.

Reply 16

Original post by SarcAndSpark

This isn't a stupid question.

The reason these caps have been brought in is that most unis accept a proportion of international/EU students each year. The assumption is that many of those students won't want to/won't be allowed to come to the UK this September. If there was no cap, unis at the top could fill all those places with home students instead (taking a lot more home students than they usually would in some cases). This would leave some unis without enough students to fill courses- making those courses financially non-viable, and perhaps causing the uni real financial problems.

If it turns out international students want to come as normal in September, the cap won't have much of an affect.

Thanks for explaining. Essentially, it’s to keep the lower ranked institutions in business then? And the 5% is a control mechanism which means that universities will only be able to go 5% above what they went last year?

Reply 17

SarcAndSpark

20

Original post by m17br

Thanks for explaining. Essentially, it’s to keep the lower ranked institutions in business then? And the 5% is a control mechanism which means that universities will only be able to go 5% above what they went last year?

Pretty much, yes- to keep lower-ranked/less popular (not always quite the same thing) institutions going a year, and in some cases possibly to keep them from shutting individual courses/departments.

If lots of unis shut suddenly, that would be pretty damaging for the economy.

Reply 18

duncris

3

I don't think it seems fair for courses that rely on practicals i.e. labs, to be charged full.
That said, I can't say I'm surprised.
Maybe a smaller cohort will allow more 1-1 time with lecturers/tutors but I don't hold the technological capabilities of staff in particular high regard given past experiences of lecturers struggling to figure out how to unmute...

I'm looking at an msc this year but really on the fence about it, admissions overwhelmed too so no word from them even though attempted to contact couple of weeks ago.

Reply 19