U of T vs Imperial vs King's ??? [Help!!]

The costs to study in London would certainly not be reflected by the pay levels for pharmacists in the UK. Would they be in Canada or HK? There are some countries (US for example) where pharmacy pays well but in most of the world it doesnt.

I think pharmacists are still in demand in Canada - so it probably pays well too and I might want to stay there in the future.
I'm still pretty undecided at the moment, I'm entirely not sure if I like pharmacy but I do enjoy studying drugs. I'd like to pursue a career involving human interactions instead of research. So I thought that a pharmacy degree may be more suitable than a general/medical science undergrad.

I have been struggling to decide where to go for my undergraduate degree. I am interested in being a pharmacist/clinical psychologist or to work in the business field e.g. consulting. Ultimately, I would like to work in Canada or Hong Kong. Right now, Imperial, KCL and U of T are my top choices and I have received conditional offers from those institutions. I'd be really appreciated and grateful if anyone could give me some advice on this.

University of Toronto: Life sciences (BSc 4 years) -
Pros: I'm a domestic student in Canada so the tuition fee is very affordable. This is the only university that I have visited out of the three that I mentioned, and I like the environment there. I also have friends and family living in Toronto. This course is much more flexible than the other two as I am allowed to take courses outside of life sciences, which may be more beneficial for me in terms of figuring out which career path I want the most.
Cons: It is going to take longer for me to become a professional. It takes 6 years to complete PharmD (2 years of undergrad + 4 years of pharm). I have heard that U of T is a GPA killer, so I am worried that I won't be able to get into either their pharmacy program or graduate degree in clinical psychology. Also, I will need to take prereqs in my first year, including calculus and cell biology which I do not enjoy much.

Imperial: Medical Biosciences (BSc 3 years) -
Pros: Shorter duration compared to BSc in Canada. And I guess Imperial may be more reputable than U of T even though U of T is #1 in Canada? and it is the same league as Oxbridge? (correct me if I am wrong) This degree is pretty general so I can do my graduate degree in possibly any field, the career prospects are also very wide and graduates in the past have worked in IP laws and business.
Cons: I am an international student so it will cost me around £31,000 per year for the tuition fees, no scholarships are offered at the moment. The course is relatively new and it is extremely research-intensive, but I have no intention of going into a research career. Also, this course does not provide any traditional lectures, which basically means that I will need to self-study most of the time and I'm just paying for the name of "Imperial".

King's: Pharmacy (MPharm 4 years) -
Pros: I will be able to practise as a pharmacist in 4 years while it will take me around 6 years to do so if I go to U of T. Even though my dream isn't to become a pharmacist, I feel like it would be a good foundation for me and I won't have to worry too much about my graduate degree. I can still practise as a pharmacist if I don't get into clinical psychology - really HIGHLY competitive no matter which country I go to.
Cons: The tuition fee is around £24,000 per year for this course, still pretty expensive imo. KCL is not as reputable as Imperial but I'm considering it because pharmacy is the most professional degree out of the three that I have applied. Also, if I want to practise in Canada/HK, I will need to take exams and internships to be qualified.

U of T especially life sci is definitely a GPA killer. I’m from Toronto so half of all my friends go there and so many are dropping out. Profs literally tell u that they won’t give a mark above a 60. I’d pick King’s or ICL just because you’re guaranteed a job/degree that you’re interested in already in a shorter amount of time. Like it’s really cool to be able to be a pharmacist after just completing one study. But the money difference is def to be taken into consideration- I just it’s choosing between paying a ton of money for a guarantee position vs paying domestic fees for no guarantee (and a not so great GPA). don’t get me wrong, i think it’s doable, it’ll just be so so difficult

U of T, as a current student (albeit at the graduate school), is renowned for being extremely difficult to survive as an undergraduate for the reasons given above.

I'd probably go to Imperial to be honest... but I'm not clued up on the field you want to enter so...

But if you want to work in Hong Kong or Canada, I'd probably push for U of T but just know what you're getting yourself in for.

Are graduate programmes equally difficult? I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to do my undergrad in the UK and move back to Canada for my master's?
I'm actually uncertain what field I want to enter yet... I guess I'm interested in clinical psychology the most but it's really hard to get into, especially if U of T lands me with an extremely low GPA.

My daughter studies MedBio at Imperial. I think you got it right that it is very research oriented. There are lectures but there is also a lot of flipped learning teaching and definitely independent study is key. The course is very new and still under development. There are some glitches. They do get feedback constantly which will be used in the coming years as they say. You have very limited electives and that might put you off. Imperial is also a very harsh Uni. You will find that support is not enough, teaching staff might be top in their fields but not necessarily good teachers, and usually a lot absorbed in their own research which makes them unavailable for students. And International fees plus the expensive living costs of London might not make it such a good deal.

I hope this helps a bit. Keep strong and stay healthy. 😊

I see! how is your daughter enjoying the course so far? I'm certainly interested in health sciences but not so much in the research part. I heard that they have a 9-5 lab day per week so I'm a little bit worried about that. Is she intended to go into a research career? And do you think a degree from imperial is worth the expensive tuition fees?

MedBio is very research intensive and she intends to go into research, so given that lab pod is very good. The cohort is split in 2 groups and they got a 9-5 session at Hammersmith hospital either Mondays or Fridays depending on your group for 1st year. The equipment and everything is top notch and you get to do experiments working in smaller groups on real cancer cells and cases that is really challenging. You get to keep your lab book in details and you are marked over it. The real challenge is that lab pod is running independently of your lectures and tutorials. So you don't do a lecture and then go on to do practicals on it. So independent research and study is very critical here. Needless to say that it is also very tiresome. Her friend who is studying biomed in UCL was not doing anything like that on her first year and was much more relaxed about it. Mind you that there could be changes, because they evaluate the feedback they get each year and implement changes. So my daughter's lab pod year (who is now in 2nd year) was running a bit different than the initial lab pod when the course was first launched.

Another thing to consider is that the program is very strict and you got limited choice. So far she has enjoyed only a few of her modules eg Physiology/anatomy, stem cells, neuroscience and pharmacology. People are also speaking well for the cardio module. The main issue is the teaching and that goes for the whole cohort. Flipped learning does not work well for every subject and that is a serious issue for 2nd year especially. 1st year was manageable but still not very effective.

Most students are not very satisfied and my daughter has mixed feelings about her choice. She is definitely certain that the experience you gain from lab pod together with the Imperial reputation will help her a lot in her future endeavours, and open many doors, bur she would have preferred to have more maintream lectures and a lot more choice over her degree. On the social aspect she has met a lot of interesting people and made good friends and she really enjoys the London experience apart from the grim weather of course. We do come from sunny Greece after all! Having said that tuition fees are much less than what you get to pay and it all depends on your family's financial situation. I know nothing about Uni of Toronto, and how the system works in Canada, so can't really give you my opinion about which degree is best value.

Graduate school operates very differently and is not held to the same standards as undergrad’ here. I’d say the UK first, Canada second plan would work more in your favour. Imperial (or King’s to be honest...) would serve you well in applications to study at U of T as a grad student, especially if you have the added security of already being a Canadian citizen/resident. I’d go for that route.

I'm from Canada as well, and I did my undergraduate degree at U of T - BSc Molecular Bio. I can confirm that getting a CGPA higher than 3.0 in life sciences takes A LOT of work here- the target class average for most science courses are 60% - so this means that professors do end up having to curve down or just make exams harder. But it does depend on the type of courses as well - I found that the bio & health courses I took were fair and you can do well in those. Chem & math courses are the grade-droppers.

The courses you need to take in order to apply for PharmD in Canada, are notoriously difficult at UofT (organic chem 1 & 2, calculus 1 & 2, physical chem..etc). BUT If you are really enjoy & are good at math and chemistry then I think your GPA will be fine and you would be able to apply to PharmD in 2-4 years and get accepted (given your PCAT score is decent & you do well at the MMI). If not, then I would recommend getting your MPharm in the UK, then coming back to Canada to practice. The pay level for a pharmacist in Canada is really good ($80-$100k avg in Ontario) and you can easily find a job right away in community pharmacy after you complete your registration exams.

I myself, am finally trying to get a pharmacy degree (It took me a long time to decide lol), but did not finish all the prerequisites needed for the PharmD program in Canada and my undergraduate CGPA is kind of low (made some bad choices) so I applied and got accepted to the MPharm program in the UK for this year. My plan is to return to Canada to practice.

So my best advice would be, if you are truly committed to pharmacy, then doing an MPharm in the UK and returning to Canada to live/practice will save you a lot of time.

But if you are more interested in grad school/clinical psych then I think you should just do your undergrad at your cheapest option & where you can attain good academic results to later apply for grad school. If you avoid tough courses (organic chem, calc etc), then you can do that at UofT as well!

I'm glad that you got into MPharm in the UK and thanks for your advice!

Did you finish your undergrad at UofT or did you apply to the UK after your 2nd year? If you did, do you still need to take 4 years of pharmacy school in the UK? Have you heard anything about the exams to practise pharmacy in Canada with an overseas degree? - I wonder if it's difficult ~

I have been struggling to decide where to go for my undergraduate degree. I am interested in being a pharmacist/clinical psychologist or to work in the business field e.g. consulting. Ultimately, I would like to work in Canada or Hong Kong. Right now, Imperial, KCL and U of T are my top choices and I have received conditional offers from those institutions. I'd be really appreciated and grateful if anyone could give me some advice on this.

University of Toronto: Life sciences (BSc 4 years) -
Pros: I'm a domestic student in Canada so the tuition fee is very affordable. This is the only university that I have visited out of the three that I mentioned, and I like the environment there. I also have friends and family living in Toronto. This course is much more flexible than the other two as I am allowed to take courses outside of life sciences, which may be more beneficial for me in terms of figuring out which career path I want the most.
Cons: It is going to take longer for me to become a professional. It takes 6 years to complete PharmD (2 years of undergrad + 4 years of pharm). I have heard that U of T is a GPA killer, so I am worried that I won't be able to get into either their pharmacy program or graduate degree in clinical psychology. Also, I will need to take prereqs in my first year, including calculus and cell biology which I do not enjoy much.

Imperial: Medical Biosciences (BSc 3 years) -
Pros: Shorter duration compared to BSc in Canada. And I guess Imperial may be more reputable than U of T even though U of T is #1 in Canada? and it is the same league as Oxbridge? (correct me if I am wrong) This degree is pretty general so I can do my graduate degree in possibly any field, the career prospects are also very wide and graduates in the past have worked in IP laws and business.
Cons: I am an international student so it will cost me around £31,000 per year for the tuition fees, no scholarships are offered at the moment. The course is relatively new and it is extremely research-intensive, but I have no intention of going into a research career. Also, this course does not provide any traditional lectures, which basically means that I will need to self-study most of the time and I'm just paying for the name of "Imperial".

King's: Pharmacy (MPharm 4 years) -
Pros: I will be able to practise as a pharmacist in 4 years while it will take me around 6 years to do so if I go to U of T. Even though my dream isn't to become a pharmacist, I feel like it would be a good foundation for me and I won't have to worry too much about my graduate degree. I can still practise as a pharmacist if I don't get into clinical psychology - really HIGHLY competitive no matter which country I go to.
Cons: The tuition fee is around £24,000 per year for this course, still pretty expensive imo. KCL is not as reputable as Imperial but I'm considering it because pharmacy is the most professional degree out of the three that I have applied. Also, if I want to practise in Canada/HK, I will need to take exams and internships to be qualified.