Maybe, Maybe not. Outside of KSA and the Gulf those societies are truly ancient. Equally, the state of 'society' is rather subjective, no?
At any rate, the ME is a tiny little area with a minority of Muslims in it with Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc. having a vastly superior number of Muslims in them.

Reply 5

Megxn0

21

Lebanon, Turkey, Dubai, Qatar, Jordan etc. are not centuries behind at all.... “the west” shouldn’t be a bench mark or bar that other countries have to reach in order to be deemed acceptable by you..or Boris Johnson

Reply 6

username5271994

15

Original post by Napp

Maybe, Maybe not. Outside of KSA and the Gulf those societies are truly ancient. Equally, the state of 'society' is rather subjective, no?
At any rate, the ME is a tiny little area with a minority of Muslims in it with Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc. having a vastly superior number of Muslims in them.

They wield disproportionate power though due to natural gas and oil reserves. Still 411 million people, and countries such as Egypt, Iraq and Iran have extremely high population growth. I also would include Afghanistan and certain parts of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh in this ‘middle age society’ category. But they’ll modernise at some point

Reply 7

Napp

22

Original post by Kavala

They wield disproportionate power though due to natural gas and oil reserves. Still 411 million people, and countries such as Egypt, Iraq and Iran have extremely high population growth. I also would include Afghanistan and certain parts of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh in this ‘middle age society’ category. But they’ll modernise at some point

That they do, although their oil sword seems to be dulling of late.
If memory serves Irans population growth isnt particularly high at all? it having slowed markedly in recent years. I cant speak to the others though.
What exactly are you defining as 'modern'? Usually when people talk about this 'modern' they're almost exclusively referring to gay rights of all things, which nice and that, i wouldnt call particularly reflective nor relevant to society at large.

Reply 8

username5271994

15

Original post by Napp

That they do, although their oil sword seems to be dulling of late.
If memory serves Irans population growth isnt particularly high at all? it having slowed markedly in recent years. I cant speak to the others though.
What exactly are you defining as 'modern'? Usually when people talk about this 'modern' they're almost exclusively referring to gay rights of all things, which nice and that, i wouldnt call particularly reflective nor relevant to society at large.

As for Iran, it’s growing by over 1 million people per year, along with Iraq, Egypt and Turkey. No I don’t define ‘modern’ in that sense - gay rights were non-existent in the West until extremely recently. I actually balk at countries like the USA and the UK etc sitting on some sort of high horse lecturing other nations about ‘gay rights’...but anyway I define modern in terms of industry, women’s rights and participation in the work force (maybe you view this under the gay rights umbrella but they’re completely different imo) and rule of law.

Reply 9

Napp

22

Original post by Kavala

As for Iran, it’s growing by over 1 million people per year, along with Iraq, Egypt and Turkey. No I don’t define ‘modern’ in that sense - gay rights were non-existent in the West until extremely recently. I actually balk at countries like the USA and the UK etc sitting on some sort of high horse lecturing other nations about ‘gay rights’...but anyway I define modern in terms of industry, women’s rights and participation in the work force (maybe you view this under the gay rights umbrella but they’re completely different imo) and rule of law.

Indeed, relatively fast, but as far as its previous population charts show it is positively sluggish these days.
I'll happily agree with you on that. There has always been something bitterly ironic about their moralising.
Ah no i was merely checking on that, most people on this site seem to use that metric as gold stand, for whatever reason :lol:

But no, your definition is perfectly sound. I would note most of the ME (KSA excluded) is relatively good on womens inclusion in the work place and indeed Iran is exceptionally good at womens education (educating more women than men) despite its other failings.

At any rate, my salient point is quite simple on this one, i'm deeply reluctant to call most of the ME countries deeply retrograde to the point of being medieval simply for their differences. I may not like nor agree with many of the policies they exercise but to relegate them to savages is extreme. Equally, it does little but to cheaper the actual barbarous countries such as the offensive things going on in the Congo basis states etc.

Reply 10

username5129378

19

*laughs in muslim* wht do u want us to say loool

Reply 11

username5271994

15

Original post by Napp

Indeed, relatively fast, but as far as its previous population charts show it is positively sluggish these days.
I'll happily agree with you on that. There has always been something bitterly ironic about their moralising.
Ah no i was merely checking on that, most people on this site seem to use that metric as gold stand, for whatever reason :lol:

But no, your definition is perfectly sound. I would note most of the ME (KSA excluded) is relatively good on womens inclusion in the work place and indeed Iran is exceptionally good at womens education (educating more women than men) despite its other failings.

At any rate, my salient point is quite simple on this one, i'm deeply reluctant to call most of the ME countries deeply retrograde to the point of being medieval simply for their differences. I may not like nor agree with many of the policies they exercise but to relegate them to savages is extreme. Equally, it does little but to cheaper the actual barbarous countries such as the offensive things going on in the Congo basis states etc.

That is true for Iran as well as Turkey and Egypt, however after the 1979 revolution in Iran women’s rights have been fairly restrictive, such as banning women from watching sport in stadiums etc. I agree and I certainly don’t relegate any entire country to savages but there are certainly pockets of those countries which resemble life in the Middle Ages. Yes, certain areas of Sub-Saharan Africa definitely leave a lot to be desired. Papua New Guinea too

Reply 12

Underscore__

21

Original post by Megxn0

Lebanon, Turkey, Dubai, Qatar, Jordan etc. are not centuries behind at all.... “the west” shouldn’t be a bench mark or bar that other countries have to reach in order to be deemed acceptable by you..or Boris Johnson

You know kissing and being drunk in public is illegal in Dubai? You’re also aware that homosexuality is illegal in several of those countries you mentioned? Even in Turkey, which is comparatively liberal (which says a lot about the others you mentioned), gay people can’t marry, adopt, or openly serve in the army.

As someone pointed out, those countries are certainly on a technological footing with ‘Western countries’ but the countries you’ve listed have several laws and practices from a bygone era as far as ‘The West’ is concerned.

Reply 13

Megxn0

21

Original post by Underscore__

You know kissing and being drunk in public is illegal in Dubai? You’re also aware that homosexuality is illegal in several of those countries you mentioned? Even in Turkey, which is comparatively liberal (which says a lot about the others you mentioned), gay people can’t marry, adopt, or openly serve in the army.

As someone pointed out, those countries are certainly on a technological footing with ‘Western countries’ but the countries you’ve listed have several laws and practices from a bygone era as far as ‘The West’ is concerned.

Not being allowed to be drunk in public doesn’t sound that bad to me, different parts of the world are going to have different cultures, we can’t expect every country to be like the west.
Same-sex marriages were only legalized in the UK less than 10 years ago, and less than 5 years ago in the US. Only in 2017 were gay couples allowed to adopt in all 50 states. Hardly “centuries behind” like Boris Johnson apparently said. Obviously some countries are going to be a bit “behind” due to differing cultures

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 14

Napp

22

Original post by Underscore__

You know kissing and being drunk in public is illegal in Dubai? You’re also aware that homosexuality is illegal in several of those countries you mentioned? Even in Turkey, which is comparatively liberal (which says a lot about the others you mentioned), gay people can’t marry, adopt, or openly serve in the army.

Drinking in public is also illegal in large swathes of Britain. Nevermind being drunk and disorderly (they tend to go hand in hand) is itself an offence...

I am curious why people keep making reference to these laws on homosexuality - as if we didnt castrate them until very recently - what on earth do these laws have to do with western civilisation? (especially given we were the ones who installed many of them). This repeated bludgeoning of other countries for their apparent dim outlook on gays comes across as somewhat more than hollow to be frank.

Reply 15

RichPiana

21

I mean he’s not wrong if you measure it in terms of coronavirus related deaths...

Reply 16

Burton Bridge

15

Original post by Napp

Stupid quote picked up and believed by stupid people.

It's a silly pointless exaggerated quote, but I dont think it's stupid? It doesn't seem stupid when you look at the majority of Muslim countries equality records, gay rights for example.

I always find religion a strange thing, the funny thing is christianity is a left wing religion in its message that loved by right wing people and the Islamic faiths are abhorrenty right wing in their messages but are loved by left wing people. Strange old world

Reply 17

karelina

16

Original post by Megxn0

Lebanon, Turkey, Dubai, Qatar, Jordan etc. are not centuries behind at all.... “the west” shouldn’t be a bench mark or bar that other countries have to reach in order to be deemed acceptable by you..or Boris Johnson

Why not? We don't stone women to death for being raped, or throw gay people off of buildings or throw widows onto a funeral pyre with their dead husband, etc etc. There is so much harmony and acceptance of sexualities and lifestyles in the West, the Middle East has a long way to go before they reach our standards of safety and freedom.