Coronavirus Megathread Part II

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NJA
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#21
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#21
Making money out of misery.
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Wōden
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#22
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(Original post by bj27)
Still lots of deaths and we've just opened up restrictions in England so every possibility it may rise.
Here's the conundrum. We can't stay locked down indefinitely, our economy is already on the brink of unprecedented ruin, and the virus will continue to be with us until a vaccine is found, which could very well be never (nobody has ever succeeded in making a vaccine for any of the other human coronaviruses).
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yeetouttawindow
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#23
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how are hundreds of people still dying everyday when we've been on lockdown for weeks?
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Scotney
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#24
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(Original post by Wōden)
Here's the conundrum. We can't stay locked down indefinitely, our economy is already on the brink of unprecedented ruin, and the virus will continue to be with us until a vaccine is found, which could very well be never (nobody has ever succeeded in making a vaccine for any of the other human coronaviruses).
Testing, testing, testing. Have you noticed how many adverts you have not seen to recruit contact tracers. Also they would need a lot more than 18000 to track and trace our population and it should not be done by people on minimum wage either. We will be back in lockdown in no time with these idiots running the country. Track test and trace was meant to be one of Mattie's pillars for coming out of lockdown. Did they forget that one?
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TheMcSame
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#25
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(Original post by steamed-hams)
how are hundreds of people still dying everyday when we've been on lockdown for weeks?
Takes time though. I'd suspect many of these may be old infections who've been clinging onto life for the last few weeks with a mix of people who've recently caught it.

And, as already mentioned, some of these deaths will have actually happened some weeks ago. Remember, these are just deaths that've been reported in the last 24 hrs, not deaths that have happened.

(Original post by Scotney)
Testing, testing, testing. Have you noticed how many adverts you have not seen to recruit contact tracers. Also they would need a lot more than 18000 to track and trace our population and it should not be done by people on minimum wage either. We will be back in lockdown in no time with these idiots running the country. Track test and trace was meant to be one of Mattie's pillars for coming out of lockdown. Did they forget that one?
Tis one of them. Though one could very much argue we're still not actually out lockdown since we have many restrictions still in place.

As for contact tracers, it's kinda hard to say atm. I suspect they might be banking on the new app to do the job for them and are merely waiting to see uptake for it.
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1st superstar
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#26
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(Original post by steamed-hams)
how are hundreds of people still dying everyday when we've been on lockdown for weeks?
Cause we ain't been on a "proper" harsh lockdown, schools, pubs, stadiums etc were shut too late, the lockdown started too late, tons of people are breaking the rules etc
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bj27
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#27
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(Original post by Wōden)
Here's the conundrum. We can't stay locked down indefinitely, our economy is already on the brink of unprecedented ruin, and the virus will continue to be with us until a vaccine is found, which could very well be never (nobody has ever succeeded in making a vaccine for any of the other human coronaviruses).
Because none of the other coronaviruses have had anywhere near as much impact so less money is pumped into research for it. There's money to be made in a Covid Vaccine though so people will work to find vaccines much more aggressively.

Our economy will be in more ruin if more people die and if outbreaks overwhelm our healthcare systems. We have 34k deaths officially, probably double that unofficially when you look at excess deaths and covid deaths outside of care homes and hospitals. So possibly 60k+ people dead in this country and will rise. We could be looking at 100k people dead by July if there's a spike in cases due to the easing of restrictions.
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username402722
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#28
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(Original post by MrMusician95)
Look at date of death data. We are definitely way past the peak.
I agree we are past the peak. Too many people are dying still, and I have little confidence that the plan to return gradually to something approaching normality is a good one. Examples:
- The re-opening of shops could begin now, if as with supermarkets they have limited numbers, one-way systems and screens in from of tills. Dressing rooms closed, and reduced hours so shop workers do not have to travel in the morning peak. Much as I think the UK is an ill-dressed nation, being able to clothes shop would help mental health. Bookshops would also be valuable to many.
- School re-opening should start with years 12 and 6- no way should we start with small children who cannot manage social distancing.
- Testing figures should be the truth- sending testing kits out is not having a test, though the numbers sent out should be reported.
- Some of the restrictions should be more precise- so a journey to exercise should be on foot or cycle, to protect coastal communities.

If Jeremy Hunt had been PM, I am sure the reaction to the virus would have been quicker and fewer people would have died.
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TigerRoll
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#29
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(Original post by bj27)
Because none of the other coronaviruses have had anywhere near as much impact so less money is pumped into research for it. There's money to be made in a Covid Vaccine though so people will work to find vaccines much more aggressively.

Our economy will be in more ruin if more people die and if outbreaks overwhelm our healthcare systems. We have 34k deaths officially, probably double that unofficially when you look at excess deaths and covid deaths outside of care homes and hospitals. So possibly 60k+ people dead in this country and will rise. We could be looking at 100k people dead by July if there's a spike in cases due to the easing of restrictions.
More people are going to die because the virus isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Just like people died and have continued to die from all the other diseases caused by viruses (except of course good old smallpox). This will likely keep going even after a vaccine is found (IF one is found) like people still die from chicken pox, flu, etc. We have to learn to live with covid-19 and those who wish to carry on isolating themselves are free to do so.
Last edited by TigerRoll; 11 months ago
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Occitanie
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#30
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IMHO schools shouldn’t open at all till September.
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MrMusician95
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#31
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(Original post by Occitanie)
IMHO schools shouldn’t open at all till September.
And parents that need to go back to work?
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fallen_acorns
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#32
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(Original post by Occitanie)
IMHO schools shouldn’t open at all till September.
I agree..

My other thought is that schools should be being shamed for how awfully they are adapting to online teaching. I was talking to a family member who is a teacher, who was telling me how awful teaching online is going.. the schools have no plan, and no desire to sort things out quickly. They use all sorts of awful excuses 'so many of my students don't have a PC!!' *******s, almost every family with kids has a smart-phone, which is enough to communicate with. And then when they do set work, the lazy parents complain to the school about their kids being stressed because in reality the parents don't want to have to force their kids to study for 3-4 hours a day. Its much easier to just to let them play games/watch tv, and not bother with the hassle.

Maybe its just my perspective, but I came from working in a poor part of China, where schools managed to get full lessons taught online to their kids in around 3 weeks. All done through smart-phones or tablets, administered through the many apps that exist for online teaching. They got it set up, made sure every parent/grandparent knew what was going on, and then after that all the kids sat down for their classes like normal each day, and did their work - and if the parents let the kids misbehave, they were shamed by the other parents/teachers. Within a month you had all kids receiving a pretty good education from their home. Job done, no stressing about needing to urgently go back to school, or kids missing their education.


I don't have any sympathy for the UK, when my part of China which is 8x poorer on average, with schools that have so much less money and facilities, and families who have much less technology or time, can make it work.

If everyone was being honest.. the teachers don't want to do online lessons in the UK because its more work from home, and it means entirely new lesson plans/ideas.. the parents don't want the hassle of managing their kids behavior all day.. the kids want to have fun and don't want to learn.. the schools don't want the administrative burden and hassle of organizing and paying for a new online service..

So its very convenient for all of them to pretend that its not really possible or a good idea.
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TigerRoll
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#33
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(Original post by Occitanie)
IMHO schools shouldn’t open at all till September.
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand I don't see what's going to be different in September, the virus will still be here. On the other hand though, damage has already been done to a lot of children's education and I don't see the point in all this hassle about opening schools in June, when they will be closed for the summer in July anyway, and the last few weeks of term are hardly full on. It's not like every year group is starting together either so some will literally just end up going back for a few weeks.
(Original post by MrMusician95)
And parents that need to go back to work?
What do these parents do with their children in the summer holiday?
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username963570
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#34
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(Original post by Smack)
The deaths reported in the previous 24 hours didn't all occur in that period. Sometimes the deaths reported can go back several weeks, sometimes even into March.

The below graph from the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine gives a clearer picture of the situation in NHS hospitals in England.

Image
Yeah, agreed with this - deaths reported per day gives a very misleading picture, I unfortunately know of somebody who passed away from COVID-19 very recently however this person was admitted to hospital in late March. So time to death can vary substantially.

The govt have generally been extremely poor with the messaging to the public throughout the crisis. It’s like they’re trying to combine the scientific advice with what they think the public want to hear, or they think the public are so dumb (tbh some people in this country the way they act I wouldn’t blame them for thinking this) that they have to try dumb down the messaging as much as possible.

media also to blame heavily for the mixed messages but would’ve been avoided if clear directives from the government in the slightly more complex areas (not just the stay at home message) were provided.
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bj27
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#35
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(Original post by TigerRoll)
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand I don't see what's going to be different in September, the virus will still be here. On the other hand though, damage has already been done to a lot of children's education and I don't see the point in all this hassle about opening schools in June, when they will be closed for the summer in July anyway, and the last few weeks of term are hardly full on. It's not like every year group is starting together either so some will literally just end up going back for a few weeks.

What do these parents do with their children in the summer holiday?
What do the parents do with their children now?

Also the Virus would still be here but would be in a better situation if we social distanced and don't open up too early.

Does it really matter losing 3 months of education in the grand scheme of things, what do people learn in July anyway and in June? Exams usually are around May/June time.
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TigerRoll
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#36
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(Original post by Fas)
they think the public are so dumb (tbh some people in this country the way they act I wouldn’t blame them for thinking this) that they have to try dumb down the messaging as much as possible.
Yeah they got it well wrong by going with the 'common sense' method.
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bj27
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#37
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I agree..

My other thought is that schools should be being shamed for how awfully they are adapting to online teaching. I was talking to a family member who is a teacher, who was telling me how awful teaching online is going.. the schools have no plan, and no desire to sort things out quickly. They use all sorts of awful excuses 'so many of my students don't have a PC!!' *******s, almost every family with kids has a smart-phone, which is enough to communicate with. And then when they do set work, the lazy parents complain to the school about their kids being stressed because in reality the parents don't want to have to force their kids to study for 3-4 hours a day. Its much easier to just to let them play games/watch tv, and not bother with the hassle.

Maybe its just my perspective, but I came from working in a poor part of China, where schools managed to get full lessons taught online to their kids in around 3 weeks. All done through smart-phones or tablets, administered through the many apps that exist for online teaching. They got it set up, made sure every parent/grandparent knew what was going on, and then after that all the kids sat down for their classes like normal each day, and did their work - and if the parents let the kids misbehave, they were shamed by the other parents/teachers. Within a month you had all kids receiving a pretty good education from their home. Job done, no stressing about needing to urgently go back to school, or kids missing their education.


I don't have any sympathy for the UK, when my part of China which is 8x poorer on average, with schools that have so much less money and facilities, and families who have much less technology or time, can make it work.

If everyone was being honest.. the teachers don't want to do online lessons in the UK because its more work from home, and it means entirely new lesson plans/ideas.. the parents don't want the hassle of managing their kids behavior all day.. the kids want to have fun and don't want to learn.. the schools don't want the administrative burden and hassle of organizing and paying for a new online service..

So its very convenient for all of them to pretend that its not really possible or a good idea.
Basically people are ****ing lazy.

It's really not hard to learn from home and to make your kid learn from home. Especially since the parents are going to be working from home or furloughed. You tell them no PS4 until they've done their sums and check up on them.
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NJA
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#38
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TigerRoll
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#39
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(Original post by bj27)
What do the parents do with their children now?

Also the Virus would still be here but would be in a better situation if we social distanced and don't open up too early.

Does it really matter losing 3 months of education in the grand scheme of things, what do people learn in July anyway and in June? Exams usually are around May/June time.
I don't know. I'm not the one worrying about what to do with my kids when I want to work. All I know is that most parents find somewhere to dump their kids while they are working during the holidays.

Maybe, maybe not. We're going to spike when we fully reopen anyway.

Exactly. This whole opening schools in June for a months is just hassle that isn't really needed considering nothing has been planned out very well. All I can say is I'm glad I'm not at school and even more glad I didn't follow through with that three second consideration I had of becoming a teacher lol.
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Smack
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#40
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There's been talk of having schools open over the summer holidays in some capacity, probably in an effort to allow pupils to catch up for what they've missed so far.
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