Is it fair for a Transgender female to take part in Women athletic sports
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Original post by Jamie_1712
Saying that a trans woman is biologically a male is transphobic? It’s factual.
It's a hate fact.
Original post by LiberOfLondon
PRSOM.
On the wider subject of the whole transgender debate, it seems to me that the transgenders want it both ways. According to them, being transgender is a death sentence, they'll literally kill themselves if a doctor doesn't operate and everyone apart from them is a TrAnSpHoBe. But then they go around convincing tomboys, effeminate men and gays of both sexes that they ”might be an egg uwu” and act as if giving yourself surgery is the solution to all your problems. Which is it?
On the wider subject of the whole transgender debate, it seems to me that the transgenders want it both ways. According to them, being transgender is a death sentence, they'll literally kill themselves if a doctor doesn't operate and everyone apart from them is a TrAnSpHoBe. But then they go around convincing tomboys, effeminate men and gays of both sexes that they ”might be an egg uwu” and act as if giving yourself surgery is the solution to all your problems. Which is it?
You seem to have a lot of hate stored up in there.
Original post by Tenacity Deshad
Any competitive sport like running, deadlifting etc
No.
Original post by Joe312
It's a hate fact.
What even is a hate fact? Facts are facts they do not love, they do not hate. I have nothing against trans people but from a biological perspective they can never change their sex.
Original post by Jamie_1712
What even is a hate fact? Facts are facts they do not love, they do not hate. I have nothing against trans people but from a biological perspective they can never change their sex.
It's more of a grey area than that, no?
Original post by Jamie_1712
What even is a hate fact? Facts are facts they do not love, they do not hate. I have nothing against trans people but from a biological perspective they can never change their sex.
Nobody ever said they could change their sex.
Sex is biological, while gender has become more of a social construct.
It's funny that if there is no difference except level of testosterone, trans men aren't breaking all the records in male sports. I wonder why.
Original post by Daveological
It's more of a grey area than that, no?
Nope not at all. Every cell in that persons body has chromosomes corresponding to the sex they were born as.
Original post by LovelyMrFox
Nobody ever said they could change their sex.
Sex is biological, while gender has become more of a social construct.
Sex is biological, while gender has become more of a social construct.
Ok great so we agree that trans women born as males are males from a biological standpoint. That’s what I was saying.
Original post by Jamie_1712
Ok great so we agree that trans women born as males are males from a biological standpoint. That’s what I was saying.
Correct. Did anyone on this thread say they could though?
Original post by LovelyMrFox
Correct. Did anyone on this thread say they could though?
No but that’s the point of the debate. If biological males are competing in women’s sport, regardless of hormone therapy, or surgery they have an inherent advantage.
Original post by Jamie_1712
No but that’s the point of the debate. If biological males are competing in women’s sport, regardless of hormone therapy, or surgery they have an inherent advantage.
Depends on the sport, but okay.
Original post by LovelyMrFox
Depends on the sport, but okay.
No I don’t think it does depend on the sport. I don’t know any sports where the women’s world record, or ability is better than men’s at the highest level. If you know of a few then I’d like to learn
Original post by Jamie_1712
Nope not at all. Every cell in that persons body has chromosomes corresponding to the sex they were born as.
Testosterone levels are a more reliable definition of sex in this context, but I still think that trans women are a grey area, similar to Caster Semenya who actually has XY chromosomes. The easiest solution is to ban trans people from sports but that's not really a good look.
Original post by Jamie_1712
No I don’t think it does depend on the sport. I don’t know any sports where the women’s world record, or ability is better than men’s at the highest level. If you know of a few then I’d like to learn
Track, pole vaulting, equestrian sports, maybe tennis if were stretching it. All of those I took part in at school, and the girls always placed high above the guys.
For track and cross country, women are generally better with endurance.
Equestrian sports, men generally are awful at it. I dont think I ever placed lower than a male in the show ring in all my 7 years of showing.
Many female tennis players have won over 20 grand slams. No male player has even reached 20.
No. Transgender women and women by birth are not biologically the same and are not on equal ground. This isn’t a social issue it is a biological and scientific issue, and transgender women are not lesser then women, they’re just biologically different which would give them an unfair advantage.
Original post by LovelyMrFox
Track, pole vaulting, equestrian sports, maybe tennis if were stretching it. All of those I took part in at school, and the girls always placed high above the guys.
For track and cross country, women are generally better with endurance.
Equestrian sports, men generally are awful at it. I dont think I ever placed lower than a male in the show ring in all my 7 years of showing.
Many female tennis players have won over 20 grand slams. No male player has even reached 20.
For track and cross country, women are generally better with endurance.
Equestrian sports, men generally are awful at it. I dont think I ever placed lower than a male in the show ring in all my 7 years of showing.
Many female tennis players have won over 20 grand slams. No male player has even reached 20.
No all the world records in track are faster for men than women. Men are on average faster than women. Men can pole vault more than 1 metre higher than the best female pole vaulter. Serena Williams has said herself that she would never be able to beat any of the top 1000 ranked men. The amount of grand slams won is irrelevant. Just because a couple of players are completely dominant during their careers, actually says more about the ability of their competitors than anything else.
Now I agree with you on equestrian however it helps to be a smaller lighter figure in that, and also the horse plays a big role.
Original post by Jamie_1712
No all the world records in track are faster for men than women. Men are on average faster than women. Men can pole vault more than 1 metre higher than the best female pole vaulter. Serena Williams has said herself that she would never be able to beat any of the top 1000 ranked men. The amount of grand slams won is irrelevant. Just because a couple of players are completely dominant during their careers, actually says more about the ability of their competitors than anything else.
Now I agree with you on equestrian however it helps to be a smaller lighter figure in that, and also the horse plays a big role.
Now I agree with you on equestrian however it helps to be a smaller lighter figure in that, and also the horse plays a big role.
Yes, while the horse does some of the work, its more of a 50 50 partnership. The rider doesnt just sit there as it is commonly believed. If you dont lift up in the corners, twopoint at the right time, support in the back, and make sure you dont fall in, the horse isnt going to move. Also just generally telling the horse where to go.
Your mind is obviously not going to be changed, so Im not even going to try with you.
Original post by LovelyMrFox
Yes, while the horse does some of the work, its more of a 50 50 partnership. The rider doesnt just sit there as it is commonly believed. If you dont lift up in the corners, twopoint at the right time, support in the back, and make sure you dont fall in, the horse isnt going to move. Also just generally telling the horse where to go.
Your mind is obviously not going to be changed, so Im not even going to try with you.
Your mind is obviously not going to be changed, so Im not even going to try with you.
I know full well what it’s like to ride a horse. I had lessons when I was younger and we also owned a horse until a few years ago. As I’ve said, I agree with you that women are better at horse riding, however there aren’t male and female categories in equestrian as far as I’m aware so it’s irrelevant to the debate.
The other things you brought up, men are far better at. As I said I’m happy to learn but you’re not providing much in the way of persuasion.
Original post by Jamie_1712
I know full well what it’s like to ride a horse. I had lessons when I was younger and we also owned a horse until a few years ago. As I’ve said, I agree with you that women are better at horse riding, however there aren’t male and female categories in equestrian as far as I’m aware so it’s irrelevant to the debate.
The other things you brought up, men are far better at. As I said I’m happy to learn but you’re not providing much in the way of persuasion.
The other things you brought up, men are far better at. As I said I’m happy to learn but you’re not providing much in the way of persuasion.
What kind of riding did you do, and did you compete? If so, what did you compete in?
Its irrelevant to debate? How so? If anything I would consider it more relevant to debate. It can easily be compared.
I give up on that part. I have no argument against you there.
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