Do Black Lives Matter? Then Make Votes Matter!

Watch
Reformed2019
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#1
I am Black British and welcome people tweeting Black Lives Matter. But there is an element of racial injustice built into our electoral system as a result of the unfair voting system, First Past Post The Post.

It is harder to make an effective change as a racial minority when the voting system used in the United Kingdom (UK) continues to elect governments with a minority of support. For example, the UK Conservative Party are in government with a 43% minority of the popular vote.

Also, racial and religious minorities are more likely to be born in densely populated urban areas. The UK voting system and constituency boundaries give a rural area voter, more power. PR gives rural & urban citizen fair & equal-weighted votes. Lastly, PR increases the number of BAME MPs and Government Ministers.

So, therefore, PR & racial justice are linked.

Do Black Lives Matter?

Then Make Votes Matter!

Start demanding PR voting now.

(AV is not PR)

Make Votes Matter
Electoral Reform Society
Labour Campaign For Electoral Reform
Last edited by Reformed2019; 4 weeks ago
5
reply
Surnia
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#2
Report 4 weeks ago
#2
There was a legally binding referendum held and the result of that gives us out current voting system:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011...ote_referendum

There are other ways of effecting change than just wanting a different number of BAME MPs. What are the actual issues you want addressed?
6
reply
Napp
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3
Report 4 weeks ago
#3
Can honestly say this is the first time i've heard anyone accuse the voting system itself of being racist :lol:
5
reply
Reformed2019
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#4
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#4
(Original post by Surnia)
There was a legally binding referendum held and the result of that gives us out current voting system:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011...ote_referendum

There are other ways of effecting change than just wanting a different number of BAME MPs. What are the actual issues you want addressed?
AV is not PR, what points did you disagree with and why? Thanks.
Last edited by Reformed2019; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
Reformed2019
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#5
(Original post by Napp)
Can honestly say this is the first time I've heard anyone accuse the voting system itself of being racist :lol:
I think you are smart enough to understand racial bias and institutional designs that have it. You don't have to play dumb for laughs. I have seen your posts, you can do so much better.
1
reply
Napp
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#6
Report 4 weeks ago
#6
(Original post by Reformed2019)
I think you are smart enough to understand racial bias and institutional designs that have it. You don't have to play dumb for laughs. I have seen your posts, you can do so much better.
Not sure what "playing dumb" has to do with this. You can accuse the political establishment and its mechanisms of action of being racist (whether those are justified being another argument) but the idea that FPTP is inherently designed to be racist is bunk in ones view.
Take your dual arguments about ethnics tending to live in the city and rural people being in a position of disproportionate power. The former of which seems to have rather little to do with Britains system of voting.. whether various minorities tend to live in the metropolitan areas seems rather irrelevant to the national voting system. On the second though, and more broadly, your inference that we need ethnic MPs simply for the sake of it seems somewhat disingenuous. Last time i checked the MPs were meant to be elected based on their suitability for the job, not some petty box ticking exercise..
However, if we take it to its logical conclusion, you want precisely 3.4% of MPs to be of african decent (and so on so forth) so as to be completely equitably? Forgive me for finding such policies based entirely on race distasteful for the nation.
0
reply
Surnia
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#7
Report 4 weeks ago
#7
(Original post by Reformed2019)
AV is not PR, what points did you disagree with and why? Thanks.
1. The public has already decided it doesn't want AV and it was agreed to abide by this.

2. A starting point for potentially inceasing the number of BAME MPs is for candidates to stand in the first place, so is that happening? Does that make them the best person for job? Why can't any MP deal with matters of racial injustice; didn't a white American President abolish slavery?

3. What racial injustice matters do you want addressing?
0
reply
Reformed2019
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#8
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#8
(Original post by Surnia)
1. The public has already decided it doesn't want AV and it was agreed to abide by this.

2. A starting point for potentially inceasing the number of BAME MPs is for candidates to stand in the first place, so is that happening? Does that make them the best person for job? Why can't any MP deal with matters of racial injustice; didn't a white American President abolish slavery?

3. What racial injustice matters do you want addressing?
AV is not PR. How many times do I have to repeat myself? If you can stop avoiding me, I will readily engage.
1
reply
Dee-Emma
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#9
Report 4 weeks ago
#9
Our current first-past-the-post system does tend to hand 100% of the power to the largest minority. Proportional systems give a voice and power to a wider range of opinions and backgrounds. But how to get from here to there when it would involve the current ruling elites relinquishing their power?
Last edited by Dee-Emma; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
Napp
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#10
Report 4 weeks ago
#10
(Original post by Dee-Emma)
Our current first-past-the-post system does tend to hand 100% of the power to the largest minority. Proportional systems give a voice and power to a wider range of opinions and backgrounds. But how to get from here to there when it would involve the current ruling elites relinquishing their power?
What does the 'current ruling elite' have to do with this? The public were given a referendum on this recently and they rejected it quite handily.
0
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#11
Report 4 weeks ago
#11
(Original post by Napp)
Can honestly say this is the first time i've heard anyone accuse the voting system itself of being racist :lol:
Bizarre even for this cesspit.

In regards to OP's post, I disagree, with one point you've made. I am absolutely sick to death of jobs been given out based on race, gender, sexual orientation. I agree that discrimination must be stopped, however, it should not be replaced by positive discrimination which allows sometimes absolute plonkers to get into jobs that they don't deserve just because they tick a box. That is not positive. Don't start drilling away at getting more BAME politicians into parliament. The best person should be chosen, regardless of race, gender or anything else. As soon as you go cherry picking, it does not help your cause; it gets other peoples backs up.

It is a case of every life matters.
7
reply
Funkinwolf
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#12
Report 4 weeks ago
#12
(Original post by Napp)
Not sure what "playing dumb" has to do with this. You can accuse the political establishment and its mechanisms of action of being racist (whether those are justified being another argument) but the idea that FPTP is inherently designed to be racist is bunk in ones view.
Take your dual arguments about ethnics tending to live in the city and rural people being in a position of disproportionate power. The former of which seems to have rather little to do with Britains system of voting.. whether various minorities tend to live in the metropolitan areas seems rather irrelevant to the national voting system. On the second though, and more broadly, your inference that we need ethnic MPs simply for the sake of it seems somewhat disingenuous. Last time i checked the MPs were meant to be elected based on their suitability for the job, not some petty box ticking exercise..
However, if we take it to its logical conclusion, you want precisely 3.4% of MPs to be of african descent (and so on so forth) so as to be completely equitably? Forgive me for finding such policies based entirely on race distasteful for the nation.
I have never read such a complete lack of misunderstanding of basic Politics. This is A level grade level stuff and your rant was not good, sorry. It was not good at all.

Institutional biases can be on purpose by design or an accident. The reason why the UK voting system disenfranchises Ethnic minorities in the UK is through the combination of most being born into dense urban areas. They have a higher population density and so their lack of geographical spread decreases their vote if they for example wish to vote for a party that is anti-racist. It requires more to do so.

You should take a political class.
0
reply
Dee-Emma
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#13
Report 4 weeks ago
#13
(Original post by Napp)
What does the 'current ruling elite' have to do with this? The public were given a referendum on this recently and they rejected it quite handily.
Not the point I was making. I was expressing my support for a different voting system and postulating on the difficulties of achieving that. The fact that a public referendum rejected one form of this alters neither.
0
reply
Unlucki
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#14
Report 4 weeks ago
#14
(Original post by Napp)
What does the 'current ruling elite' have to do with this? The public were given a referendum on this recently and they rejected it quite handily.
The referendum was for AV, which isn't even proportional, plus it had a bad turnout & bad campaigning. I'd hazard a guess that most people aren't even aware of our current system or how flawed it is, and I think that awareness needs to come first before we can ever hope to change to a fairer, more proportional system
1
reply
glassalice
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#15
Report 4 weeks ago
#15
(Original post by Reformed2019)
I am Black British and welcome people tweeting Black Lives Matter. But there is an element of racial injustice built into our electoral system as a result of the unfair voting system, First Past Post The Post.

It is harder to make an effective change as a racial minority when the voting system used in the United Kingdom (UK) continues to elect governments with a minority of support. For example, the UK Conservative Party are in government with a 43% minority of the popular vote.

Also, racial and religious minorities are more likely to be born in densely populated urban areas. The UK voting system and constituency boundaries give a rural area voter, more power. PR gives rural & urban citizen fair & equal-weighted votes. Lastly, PR increases the number of BAME MPs and Government Ministers.

So, therefore, PR & racial justice are linked.

Do Black Lives Matter?

Then Make Votes Matter!

Start demanding PR voting now.

(AV is not PR)

Make Votes Matter
Electoral Reform Society
Labour Campaign For Electoral Reform
The Conservative Party held the greatest share of the vote, it met the threshold to form a government. Would you prefer Coalition government? In this country they don't have a great trake record.
Can you accept the consequences of PR? As it is more representative you are going to end up with MP's that represent parties that you may view as being 'undesirable'- the brexit party got 2% of the vote in 2019.
All religions are a minority in the UK.

How would PR increase the amount of people with BAME backgrounds in government?
0
reply
Surnia
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#16
Report 4 weeks ago
#16
(Original post by Reformed2019)
AV is not PR. How many times do I have to repeat myself? If you can stop avoiding me, I will readily engage.
I'm not avoiding you, I've made points and asked questions that you havent answered.

I can't answer 'AV is not PR' because it's a true statement, not a question. Why do you keep repeating it?
0
reply
Napp
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#17
Report 4 weeks ago
#17
(Original post by Funkinwolf)
I have never read such a complete lack of misunderstanding of basic Politics. This is A level grade level stuff and your rant was not good, sorry. It was not good at all.
Yeah, your limited opinion on the matter doesnt make that true :lol:

Institutional biases can be on purpose by design or an accident. The reason why the UK voting system disenfranchises Ethnic minorities in the UK is through the combination of most being born into dense urban areas. They have a higher population density and so their lack of geographical spread decreases their vote if they for example wish to vote for a party that is anti-racist. It requires more to do so.
Read the post i was replying to and then reread mine again, you seem to have gotten a little confused along the way . Either that or you're just going off on some odd irrelevant tangent.

Either way, the fact remains the FPTP voting system is not "racist" in any conceivable way and it most certainly wasnt introduced as such. You should probably try and educate yourself a little better before making such quaint comments.

You should take a political class.
I'd be willing to put money on me being more educated in politics than you :lol:
0
reply
Napp
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#18
Report 4 weeks ago
#18
(Original post by Unlucki)
The referendum was for AV, which isn't even proportional, plus it had a bad turnout & bad campaigning. I'd hazard a guess that most people aren't even aware of our current system or how flawed it is, and I think that awareness needs to come first before we can ever hope to change to a fairer, more proportional system
Indeed it did, that doesnt quite detract from the point though.

Indeed you're right, the system naturally has its own flaws, as well as strengths. However, that doesnt mean the system is unfit for purpose and it certainly doesnt mean the OP is right in its assertions.
0
reply
Gundabad(good)
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#19
Report 4 weeks ago
#19
(Original post by Napp)
Indeed it did, that doesnt quite detract from the point though.

Indeed you're right, the system naturally has its own flaws, as well as strengths. However, that doesnt mean the system is unfit for purpose and it certainly doesnt mean the OP is right in its assertions.
First past the post benefits the Tories. That's the only reason I like it.
0
reply
Napp
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#20
Report 4 weeks ago
#20
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
First past the post benefits the Tories. That's the only reason I like it.
Good for you ?
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you finding researching unis for 2021 entry?

I have been able to get all the information I need from online research (65)
19.35%
I have tried virtual events and found them useful (72)
21.43%
I have tried virtual events and did not find them useful (62)
18.45%
I would be interested in trying socially distanced or scaled down in person events (70)
20.83%
I want to but don't know where to start with researching unis for 2021 entry (34)
10.12%
I haven't started researching yet (33)
9.82%

Watched Threads

View All