NJA
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Are there any examples where you believe the hand of God was seen?

I offfer Narvik, 8-9 June, 1940:

80 years ago, 24,500 allied troops (and 50 captured luftwaffe pilots) were on ships escaping from Narvik, Norway. They had no air support and being the Arctic Circle it was light 24 hours a day with no cloud cover. They were limited to 10 knots, the speed of the slowest ship.
A German Heinkel had spotted and circled them, battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were 100 miles south, the direction they wanted to go and were steaming towards them, eta 5-6 hours. They were a convoy of "lame ducks".
However, a sea mist, then fog appeared, so dense that they had to move together to maintain vision of each other and avoid collision. Through a gap in the low clouds they briefly saw the Nazis 1km away but escaped.When the fog cleared they saw 2 more ships, flying The Red Ensign.
Thousands of lives were either saved from death or years in Nazi prison camps. The timing of these events is as much a miracle as Dunkirk, yet it has been forgotten! (please try to find it on the web!) Those troops formed the core of the British 8th Army ("The Desert Rats").

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LuigiMario
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The old but great book Lord of the Rings has a few sky faeries popping up in battles too, here & there.

I suspect G_D has been present at many battles, where humans fought, since the dawn of time,
On one side or another, or often both sides. He/She did have an important rôle, before the invention of electric light, development of science, which was to keep individuals, camps, tribes spirits up, when early humans weren’t even sure that the sun would rise the next day, so devoted a tithe to a plausible sky faerie explainer, storyteller, who inspired confidence and kept humanity going, through the hardest times. Other points of view are equally welcomed.
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Napp
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No, giving a fictional creation credit (especially in your remark about Dunkirk) is lazy.

Equally, to take you example further, was it the hand of god who ordained the slaughter o nthe western front or in the camps?
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NJA
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(Original post by Napp)
No, giving a fictional creation credit (especially in your remark about Dunkirk) is lazy.

Equally, to take you example further, was it the hand of god who ordained the slaughter o nthe western front or in the camps?
I mentioned the above story to the guide at Bletchley Park, he responded "oh yes! there are many such stories, all for us, none for them". Similarly people like Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding and General Sir William Dobbie, Governor of Malta and Churchill who had overview of what was going on saw the hand of God, responding to the cry of faith for deliverance from evil. Also on a micro level, this is from a letter home from an American G.I. Joel serving in Patton’s Third Army describing how the entire platoon narrowly escaped being wiped out as it faced the Germans in Luxembourg.
“One of my best friends, Tom, with his whole platoon were pinned down by mortar and artillery fire. They were given the order to move but they couldn’t because the enemy had full view of them from a hill and were zeroing their fire on them accurately. Tom is the most conscientious Christian boy I have ever met in the services. He knew something had to be done to save the fifty men. He crawled from his foxhole and looked things over. Seeing the hopelessness of the situation, he lay down behind a tree and prayed earnestly for God to help him. This is true mother…after he prayed a mist or fog rolled down between the two hills, and the whole platoon got out of their foxholes and escaped."

However with lack of faith, and trust in self the hand of God is missed. I suggest it is no co-incidence that the nations that did horrific things to people in their colonies suffered in the trenches and camps.
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Napp
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(Original post by NJA)
I mentioned the above story to the guide at Bletchley Park, he responded "oh yes! there are many such stories, all for us, none for them". Similarly people like Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding and General Sir William Dobbie, Governor of Malta and Churchill who had overview of what was going on saw the hand of God, responding to the cry of faith for deliverance from evil. Also on a micro level, this is from a letter home from an American G.I. Joel serving in Patton’s Third Army describing how the entire platoon narrowly escaped being wiped out as it faced the Germans in Luxembourg.
“One of my best friends, Tom, with his whole platoon were pinned down by mortar and artillery fire. They were given the order to move but they couldn’t because the enemy had full view of them from a hill and were zeroing their fire on them accurately. Tom is the most conscientious Christian boy I have ever met in the services. He knew something had to be done to save the fifty men. He crawled from his foxhole and looked things over. Seeing the hopelessness of the situation, he lay down behind a tree and prayed earnestly for God to help him. This is true mother…after he prayed a mist or fog rolled down between the two hills, and the whole platoon got out of their foxholes and escaped."
So a quirk of the weather is actually the hand of god..?
However with lack of faith, and trust in self the hand of God is missed. I suggest it is no co-incidence that the nations that did horrific things to people in their colonies suffered in the trenches and camps.
Ah so you've moved from god to the hand of karma...? Also you seem to rather miss the point that, bar Britain and France, none of the other powers in WWI had colonies (or at least none worth a damn).
How do you explain the horrors experienced by colonials vested on them by each other then? Or is your argument everyone is evil and thus evil things happen to all people?
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NJA
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(Original post by Napp)
So a quirk of the weather is actually the hand of god..?

Ah so you've moved from god to the hand of karma...? Also you seem to rather miss the point that, bar Britain and France, none of the other powers in WWI had colonies (or at least none worth a damn).
How do you explain the horrors experienced by colonials vested on them by each other then? Or is your argument everyone is evil and thus evil things happen to all people?
When the timing of that "quirk" delivers the supplicant, as has happened many times in the past, you start to see statistical significance. I remember that it was a very strong east wind that "congealed the waters" of the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds, Yam Suph I believe), allowing the Israelites to cross at night.

"Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word" (Psa 148:8 )

The Belgians, under King Leopold did terrible things to the Congolese, and the Dutch treated the people of the Spice Islands and Indonesia very badly. My argument is that when people turn to God, and repent of past sins if needed, God delivers.
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Napp
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(Original post by NJA)
When the timing of that "quirk" delivers the supplicant, as has happened many times in the past, you start to see statistical significance. I remember that it was a very strong east wind that "congealed the waters" of the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds, Yam Suph I believe), allowing the Israelites to cross at night.

"Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word" (Psa 148:8 )

The Belgians, under King Leopold did terrible things to the Congolese, and the Dutch treated the people of the Spice Islands and Indonesia very badly. My argument is that when people turn to God, and repent of past sins if needed, God delivers.
What are you on about Israelites for? A quaint example given they were nearly exterminated but a few years later.
And?
Yeah, thats obviously a load of baseless twaddle :lol: Look how the Christian empires all fell, to godless heathens, Muslims, Asians and so on so forth.
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Calibrated.
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(Original post by NJA)
When the timing of that "quirk" delivers the supplicant, as has happened many times in the past, you start to see statistical significance. I remember that it was a very strong east wind that "congealed the waters" of the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds, Yam Suph I believe), allowing the Israelites to cross at night.

"Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word" (Psa 148:8 )

The Belgians, under King Leopold did terrible things to the Congolese, and the Dutch treated the people of the Spice Islands and Indonesia very badly. My argument is that when people turn to God, and repent of past sins if needed, God delivers.
You are depicting god that is vindictive, petty and malicious.

If you ever wish to understand why Christianity is being rapidly abandoned in the UK and other developed countries, this is a good place to start.
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NJA
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(Original post by Napp)
What are you on about Israelites for? A quaint example given they were nearly exterminated but a few years later.
And?
Yeah, thats obviously a load of baseless twaddle :lol: Look how the Christian empires all fell, to godless heathens, Muslims, Asians and so on so forth.
There was conflict between the Israelites and the Egyptians, God was seen in that conflict.

Wednesday or later Nation's turned from their god it is no surprise that they fell, this is the way it works.
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Napp
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There was conflict between the Israelites and the Egyptians, God was seen in that conflict.
Yeah, he really wasn't. Unless you would care tp provide some sort of evidence? A grass fire not withstanding.
Wednesday or later Nation's turned from their god it is no surprise that they fell, this is the way it works.
How is the day of the week relevant?

So on the one hand you say religion saves people on the next you say it damns them? You should make up your mind. Equally you should get your examples straight, the ones presented so far being ... somewhat less than good.
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NJA
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Yeah, he really wasn't. Unless you would care tp provide some sort of evidence? A grass fire not withstanding.

How is the day of the week relevant?

So on the one hand you say religion saves people on the next you say it damns them? You should make up your mind. Equally you should get your examples straight, the ones presented so far being ... somewhat less than good.
I didn't check the voice recognition "Wednesday" should say "when they" (referring to Israel)
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Napp
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(Original post by NJA)
I didn't check the voice recognition "Wednesday" should say "when they" (referring to Israel)
And the ones that never turned from their respective gods and still fell?
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Op1busy
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I am very confused about God, someone help?
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NJA
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(Original post by Napp)
And the ones that never turned from their respective gods and still fell?
They fall into the same category of unbelief so at the end of the day they don't see the hand of the one true living God
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(Original post by NJA)
They fall into the same category of unbelief so at the end of the day they don't see the hand of the one true living God
Oh come on, thats a damn lazy answer even for a bible thumper. "religious person gets a good thumping in war" Oh it must have meant they were the right sort of religious lot :rolleyes:
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