That'sGreat
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https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...cett-s-statue-

Interesting. I’ve seen calls to remove statues for every white male under the sun, but as soon as it comes to a female - the rules change?
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glassalice
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...cett-s-statue-

Interesting. I’ve seen calls to remove statues for every white male under the sun, but as soon as it comes to a female - the rules change?
Its funny the statues aren't actually actively oppressing anyone, why is religion being ignored? Because criticising religion isn't woke
Last edited by glassalice; 7 months ago
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the bear
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...cett-s-statue-

Interesting. I’ve seen calls to remove statues for every white male under the sun, but as soon as it comes to a female - the rules change?
i have been a long time advocate of removing statues of Boadicea.... the kiddy killer
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londonmyst
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Don't worry, it's only a matter of time until the activists who bellowed out earache inducing renditions of "ding dong the witch is gone" remember all the statues of Mrs Thatcher. :laugh:
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...cett-s-statue-

Interesting. I’ve seen calls to remove statues for every white male under the sun, but as soon as it comes to a female - the rules change?
I'm out of free articles on the Speccie (I don't subscribe) - what does it say that's negative about her? She was a fine woman.
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Guru Jason
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I'm out of free articles on the Speccie (I don't subscribe) - what does it say that's negative about her? She was a fine woman.
That she was a hugh supporter of the British empire and was appointed to run/lead concentration camps in the Boer war in South Africa.
Last edited by Guru Jason; 7 months ago
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Guru Jason)
That she was a hugh supporter of the British empire and was appointed to run/lead concentration camps in the Boer war in South Africa.
Does it give a source? I've never heard that before about her - the sources I've read examine the Commission of Enquiry she was part of into the treatment of Boers and Africans in the camps and she was firmly critical.
https://www.sahistory.org.za/dated-e...s-south-africa

I wonder if the writer at the Spectator has simply misunderstood.
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Kaffee_1998
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I'm up for the removal of any Karl Marx statues since his ideology is responsible for a death count in the hundreds of millions. if we are going to be consistent which I suspect we arnt.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Kaffee_1998)
I'm up for the removal of any Karl Marx statues since his ideology is responsible for a death count in the hundreds of millions. if we are going to be consistent which I suspect we arnt.
Have you been reading Conservative Home? :teehee:
https://www.conservativehome.com/the...-tells-us.html
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Guru Jason
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Does it give a source? I've never heard that before about her - the sources I've read examine the Commission of Enquiry she was part of into the treatment of Boers and Africans in the camps and she was firmly critical.
https://www.sahistory.org.za/dated-e...s-south-africa

I wonder if the writer at the Spectator has simply misunderstood.
I do read it as an opinion piece. I cannot see any external links or references. The author states that 14k to 25k died and that she reported the camps are be favourable but I dont see any references. There is a quote from her but my phone wont copy it so maybe someone can copy paste it for you.

It does seem to have bias just on the fact I can find no link. If there was links to her reports or something I'd be able to tell more.

Edit: I'll try to copy when I'm home from work
Last edited by Guru Jason; 7 months ago
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Guru Jason)
I do read it as an opinion piece. I cannot see any external links or references. The author states that 14k to 25k died and that she reported the camps are be favourable but I dont see any references. There is a quote from her but my phone wont copy it so maybe someone can copy paste it for you.

It does seem to have bias just on the fact I can find no link. If there was links to her reports or something I'd be able to tell more.

Edit: I'll try to copy when I'm home from work
Oh thanks. I'm fairly sure it's utter nonsense, but I'd be interested to hear what the basis of the argument is.
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Guru Jason
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Oh thanks. I'm fairly sure it's utter nonsense, but I'd be interested to hear what the basis of the argument is.
"London mayor Sadiq Khan promised today that he will begin the process of pulling down ‘inappropriate’ statues around London – after Bristolians dumped the statue of slave trader Edward Colston in the river at the weekend. To investigate London’s landmarks, Khan has created a ‘Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm’ which will review statues and street names in the capital to make sure they reflect the diversity of its people. Khan said he expected the commission to find that it’s ‘not appropriate to be memorialising, or to be celebrating’ certain figures, especially those with a racist past and links to the slave trade. Mr S wonders though if Khan’s commission should perhaps start with statues erected by the London mayor himself.In 2018, he proudly unveiled a statue of the suffragist Millicent Fawcett – the first-ever statue in Parliament Square of a woman. At the time, Khan declared that ‘from the very first week of my Mayoralty, I supported Caroline Criado Perez’s campaign to put up a statue of a woman in Parliament Square, and I’m so proud that the day of its unveiling is now upon us.’But while Fawcett is mostly celebrated today for the campaign for women’s suffrage, less well-known is her ardent support of the British Empire. Fawcett was such a fan of Empire, that in 1901 she was commissioned by the government to lead an investigation into British concentration camps in South Africa during the second Boer war, after high mortality rates and appalling conditions were reported there.The camps had been created after the British began conducting a scorched earth policy during the war, which involved burning down villages, homes and crops to root out a guerrilla campaign. As a result tens of thousands of men, women and children were displaced and forcibly moved into the camps. When she arrived, Fawcett thought the camps were deeply necessary for the war, and her eventual report said the commission had a ‘generally favourable’ view of them. She also suggested that many of the deaths were caused by the ‘unsanitary habits’ of the Boers. Around 28,000 Boers died in the camps.But if the Boers were unfairly maligned by Fawcett, at least they were mentioned in her eventual report. When she returned to England, Fawcett said that she had investigated ‘every camp’ in the country. In fact, she failed to visit a single camp which held Black Africans, nor did her report address the conditions in which they were held. In total, an estimated 14,000 to 25,000 Africans are thought to have died in the camps that Fawcett ignored. Fawcett didn’t have much thought for the participation of Black Africans in society after the war either. In 1899, she wrote that after the settlement of the war,“‘I hope we are too deeply pledged to the principle of equal privileges for all white races to abandon it.’In short, Fawcett is exactly the kind of person you would expect Sadiq Khan’s statue-toppling commission to take aim at. Or perhaps the London mayor will suddenly understand the value of historical nuance when it comes to his own pet project…"


I don't know how to spoiler but yeah, here it is.
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Notnek
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(Original post by Kaffee_1998)
I'm up for the removal of any Karl Marx statues since his ideology is responsible for a death count in the hundreds of millions. if we are going to be consistent which I suspect we arnt.
Also Einstein for being responsible for the atomic bomb and thus killing hundreds of thousands of people.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Guru Jason)
"London mayor Sadiq Khan promised today that he will begin the process of pulling down ‘inappropriate’ statues around London – after Bristolians dumped the statue of slave trader Edward Colston in the river at the weekend. To investigate London’s landmarks, Khan has created a ‘Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm’ which will review statues and street names in the capital to make sure they reflect the diversity of its people. Khan said he expected the commission to find that it’s ‘not appropriate to be memorialising, or to be celebrating’ certain figures, especially those with a racist past and links to the slave trade. Mr S wonders though if Khan’s commission should perhaps start with statues erected by the London mayor himself.In 2018, he proudly unveiled a statue of the suffragist Millicent Fawcett – the first-ever statue in Parliament Square of a woman. At the time, Khan declared that ‘from the very first week of my Mayoralty, I supported Caroline Criado Perez’s campaign to put up a statue of a woman in Parliament Square, and I’m so proud that the day of its unveiling is now upon us.’But while Fawcett is mostly celebrated today for the campaign for women’s suffrage, less well-known is her ardent support of the British Empire. Fawcett was such a fan of Empire, that in 1901 she was commissioned by the government to lead an investigation into British concentration camps in South Africa during the second Boer war, after high mortality rates and appalling conditions were reported there.The camps had been created after the British began conducting a scorched earth policy during the war, which involved burning down villages, homes and crops to root out a guerrilla campaign. As a result tens of thousands of men, women and children were displaced and forcibly moved into the camps. When she arrived, Fawcett thought the camps were deeply necessary for the war, and her eventual report said the commission had a ‘generally favourable’ view of them. She also suggested that many of the deaths were caused by the ‘unsanitary habits’ of the Boers. Around 28,000 Boers died in the camps.But if the Boers were unfairly maligned by Fawcett, at least they were mentioned in her eventual report. When she returned to England, Fawcett said that she had investigated ‘every camp’ in the country. In fact, she failed to visit a single camp which held Black Africans, nor did her report address the conditions in which they were held. In total, an estimated 14,000 to 25,000 Africans are thought to have died in the camps that Fawcett ignored. Fawcett didn’t have much thought for the participation of Black Africans in society after the war either. In 1899, she wrote that after the settlement of the war,“‘I hope we are too deeply pledged to the principle of equal privileges for all white races to abandon it.’In short, Fawcett is exactly the kind of person you would expect Sadiq Khan’s statue-toppling commission to take aim at. Or perhaps the London mayor will suddenly understand the value of historical nuance when it comes to his own pet project…"


I don't know how to spoiler but yeah, here it is.
Where was that quote from please?
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Guru Jason
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Where was that quote from please?
Dont where its from. That is the whole article i just copied and pasted lol.

Like I said, no references or anything. it looks like an amateur blog more than anything.

Edit: The author is labeled as a gossip columnist. Not very helpful.
Last edited by Guru Jason; 7 months ago
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username402722
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There are other suffragettes who could be commemorated, as Millicent Fawcett is there to remember the struggle for votes for women.
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Oxford Mum
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(Original post by Sir Cumference)
Also Einstein for being responsible for the atomic bomb and thus killing hundreds of thousands of people.
I have often thought that.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Sir Cumference)
Also Einstein for being responsible for the atomic bomb and thus killing hundreds of thousands of people.
He really wasn't. That was people like Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project scientists. Einstein's mathematical visions were works of beautiful art. It's not his fault that others immediately tried to utilise them to develop monstrous bombs.
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Notnek
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
He really wasn't. That was people like Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project scientists. Einstein's mathematical visions were works of beautiful art. It's not his fault that others immediately tried to utilise them to develop monstrous bombs.
I was being ironical.
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Napp
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(Original post by Sir Cumference)
Also Einstein for being responsible for the atomic bomb and thus killing hundreds of thousands of people.
Shall we also ban the mention of any China person as they invented gunpowder? Killing untold millions
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