The Student Room Group

All lives matter debate

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Reply 21
Original post by In Time
Black Lives Matter obviously, but they matter as much as anyone else. It should be all lives matter. Anyone who disagrees believe that black people have the superior race, and everyone else, particularly white people are less important.

We're all human. We all matter. We all share the same amount of importance.

Just out of interest, do you support blue/police lives matter in terms of protecting police officers lives?

Was about to say the exact same thing and all these threads seem to be suspiciously started by new accounts. I smell right winger trolls alert.
Original post by zacn01
Obviously you have a certain opinion on the matter. The main advocacy of “Black Lives Matter” is that All Lives do not matter until Black Lives do.


I think the main advocacy of “All Lives Matter” is that, not only do Black Lives have to matter to make this true, but so do the lives of many other oppressed groups.

Of course Black people are oppressed in America and that oppression needs to be eliminated. But is the same not true, perhaps even more so, of Uighurs in China or Rohingyas in Burma? When we are capable of protesting en masse in such a scale to stand up for injustices against a certain group, why not these groups?

There is a history of injustices against black people in our societies and the murder of George Floyd has riled up black people and supporters all over the world - they are treated as if black lives don’t matter; a teenager was found dead wrapped up in a gymnasium mat with his organs removed, and his assailants convinced everyone that it was a suicide. This obvious lack of concern for black lives universally, (there are many more examples, all over the internet, such as another BLM movement mantra, “say their names”, has brought the movement to attention yet again.


I agree with what you say. But once again I would point out that the same is also true of other groups of people too.

For example only a few days ago, an innocent, unarmed and autistic Palestinian man called Iyad Halak was shot dead by Israeli police, whilst he was trying to run away from them due to fear, and shortly after his career had made it clear to them that he was disabled.

But the thing is, this doesn’t tug on our emotional heartstrings as much as the death of George Floyd. Perhaps it’s because it occurred in a part of the world that Westerners don’t culturally identify with so much. Perhaps we in the UK live and work amongst many black people but haven’t ever met very many Palestinians. Perhaps it’s just because such occurrences are so common that they’re not even deemed that newsworthy anymore, and it’s almost seen as normal.

But objectively speaking, a death is a death, a life is a life, and this one mattered too. Objectively speaking, this is systemic racism as well, heavily embedded in daily life in that part of the world. Objectively speaking, huge numbers of innocent people have been killed for reasons like this, on the basis of being Palestinian. And if we naturally turn turn a blind eye to this for any of the reasons I mentioned above, we too are guilty of the same systemic racism that we are fighting against on behalf of black people.

But there is no hashtag or protest for “Palestinian Lives Matter”. In fact I said this recently on another (American) forum and received comments like:
- “No they don’t” and when asked why: “Terrorism”
- “Um sure but not as much as the lives of civilised people”
- “That’s one less Muslim in the world to deal with”

We’re able to dehumanise such people and trivialise their death’s so easily just because, on the basis of which part of the world they belonged to, lived in and were killed in, we don’t see them as “one of us”, in the same way that we do for African Americans. We’re not that emotionally traumatised by it. If that isn’t systemic racial bias then I don’t know what is.

There are many other injustices just like this going on all over the world every single day. And whilst I heavily applaud the fact that today, we are standing up against this on behalf of black people, “All Lives Matter” should remind us that these other injustices that we barely pay 2 seconds of attention to when we read it in the news are deserving of our outrage and mass protest too.

Another criticism of all lives matter is within an analogy, if you had 4 houses, and one was on fire, an “all lives matter” advocate would make sure all 4 houses were doused with water, instead of the house that is burning down. I hope you look up the BLM movement and re-educate yourself accordingly :smile:


A more accurate analogy would be to say that, there is not just one house on fire. There are multiple houses on fire. But at this particular moment in time, only the house of the black man is getting the firefighters’ attention. The rest of them are constantly on fire but routinely overlooked.

TL:biggrin:R
All lives matter is a statement that opposes black lives matter, because all lives matter does not support those who are most prevalently oppressed.


I don’t think the purpose of “All Lives Matter” is to brush over the fact that Black Lives in particular are heavily oppressed.

The point is to say that there are several other groups of people which are routinely oppressed, but we tend to turn a blind eye to it. Their houses are on fire too, and we need firefighters there as well.
‘All lives matter’ wasn’t a movement until someone said black lives matter.’
Of course all lives matter, but the movement is about getting equal opportunity / less discrimination For people of colour . It’s not devalue other lives, it’s about bringing support to black lives on the same grounds.
Original post by zacn01
Obviously you have a certain opinion on the matter. The main advocacy of “Black Lives Matter” is that All Lives do not matter until Black Lives do.

There is a history of injustices against black people in our societies and the murder of George Floyd has riled up black people and supporters all over the world - they are treated as if black lives don’t matter; a teenager was found dead wrapped up in a gymnasium mat with his organs removed, and his assailants convinced everyone that it was a suicide. This obvious lack of concern for black lives universally, (there are many more examples, all over the internet, such as another BLM movement mantra, “say their names”, has brought the movement to attention yet again.

Another criticism of all lives matter is within an analogy, if you had 4 houses, and one was on fire, an “all lives matter” advocate would make sure all 4 houses were doused with water, instead of the house that is burning down. I hope you look up the BLM movement and re-educate yourself accordingly :smile:

TL:biggrin:R
All lives matter is a statement that opposes black lives matter, because all lives matter does not support those who are most prevalently oppressed.


I'd like you to know that this was incredibly well put and I'm saving it for all the other racists that say "All Lives Matter", thank you
Original post by In Time
All Lives = Everyone in the world, regardless of race. So I have an excellent point because all lives matter.

Would you agree that only black lives matter and nobody else?


tbh you dont give a excellent point at all. if your saying all lives matter. its not then just about race. its about sexual orientation, gender. race.
Reply 27
Original post by tazarooni89
I think the main advocacy of “All Lives Matter” is that, not only do Black Lives have to matter to make this true, but so do the lives of many other oppressed groups.

Of course Black people are oppressed in America and that oppression needs to be eliminated. But is the same not true, perhaps even more so, of Uighurs in China or Rohingyas in Burma? When we are capable of protesting en masse in such a scale to stand up for injustices against a certain group, why not these groups?



I agree with what you say. But once again I would point out that the same is also true of other groups of people too.

For example only a few days ago, an innocent, unarmed and autistic Palestinian man called Iyad Halak was shot dead by Israeli police, whilst he was trying to run away from them due to fear, and shortly after his career had made it clear to them that he was disabled.

But the thing is, this doesn’t tug on our emotional heartstrings as much as the death of George Floyd. Perhaps it’s because it occurred in a part of the world that Westerners don’t culturally identify with so much. Perhaps we in the UK live and work amongst many black people but haven’t ever met very many Palestinians. Perhaps it’s just because such occurrences are so common that they’re not even deemed that newsworthy anymore, and it’s almost seen as normal.

But objectively speaking, a death is a death, a life is a life, and this one mattered too. Objectively speaking, this is systemic racism as well, heavily embedded in daily life in that part of the world. Objectively speaking, huge numbers of innocent people have been killed for reasons like this, on the basis of being Palestinian. And if we naturally turn turn a blind eye to this for any of the reasons I mentioned above, we too are guilty of the same systemic racism that we are fighting against on behalf of black people.

But there is no hashtag or protest for “Palestinian Lives Matter”. In fact I said this recently on another (American) forum and received comments like:
- “No they don’t” and when asked why: “Terrorism”
- “Um sure but not as much as the lives of civilised people”
- “That’s one less Muslim in the world to deal with”

We’re able to dehumanise such people and trivialise their death’s so easily just because, on the basis of which part of the world they belonged to, lived in and were killed in, we don’t see them as “one of us”, in the same way that we do for African Americans. We’re not that emotionally traumatised by it. If that isn’t systemic racial bias then I don’t know what is.

There are many other injustices just like this going on all over the world every single day. And whilst I heavily applaud the fact that today, we are standing up against this on behalf of black people, “All Lives Matter” should remind us that these other injustices that we barely pay 2 seconds of attention to when we read it in the news are deserving of our outrage and mass protest too.



A more accurate analogy would be to say that, there is not just one house on fire. There are multiple houses on fire. But at this particular moment in time, only the house of the black man is getting the firefighters’ attention. The rest of them are constantly on fire but routinely overlooked.



I don’t think the purpose of “All Lives Matter” is to brush over the fact that Black Lives in particular are heavily oppressed.

The point is to say that there are several other groups of people which are routinely oppressed, but we tend to turn a blind eye to it. Their houses are on fire too, and we need firefighters there as well.

Let's not kid ourselves, it's obfuscation. Designed primarily to take focus away from the issue at hand.
Original post by DSilva
Let's not kid ourselves, it's obfuscation. Designed primarily to take focus away from the issue at hand.


But then my question is simply this:

If Black Lives are the “issue at hand” right now, given that George Floyd has been killed so recently, why is it that systematic injustices against particular groups of people outside the West pretty much never become the “issue at hand”?

Palestinians, Rohingyas and Uighurs (to name a few) have been institutionally and systematically oppressed and killed on a regular basis for years without their plight ever becoming the “issue at hand” to the same extent. You hardly ever see a social media hashtag for any of them, even in the days following major incidents. Why?
Reply 29
Original post by tazarooni89
But then my question is simply this:

If Black Lives are the “issue at hand” right now, given that George Floyd has been killed so recently, why is it that systematic injustices against particular groups of people outside the West pretty much never become the “issue at hand”?

Palestinians, Rohingyas and Uighurs (to name a few) have been institutionally and systematically oppressed and killed on a regular basis for years without their plight ever becoming the “issue at hand” to the same extent. You hardly ever see a social media hashtag for any of them, even in the days following major incidents. Why?


I agree and they should be, though I do see a lot of support for Palestinians.

But the 'all lives matter' stuff just seems to be obfuscation. If you were to campaign against child poverty but then someone went 'but what about social care - do you not care about that?' you'd rightly complain about people trying to change the subject.
Original post by DSilva
I agree and they should be, though I do see a lot of support for Palestinians.


Most of the support I see for Palestinians (or even Uighurs or Rohingyas for that matter) seems to come from Muslims. Perhaps because we have a tendency to care most about the people whom we perceive to be “one of us”?

Or even when it comes to Black people; would we have gone out in such a large scale protest if exactly the same thing had happened in say Brazil, or Colombia, or South Africa? Racism against Black people is just as big a problem in these countries, if not bigger. But it seems we’re not as emotionally invested in these places as much as a majority white, wealthy Western country like ours.

But the 'all lives matter' stuff just seems to be obfuscation. If you were to campaign against child poverty but then someone went 'but what about social care - do you not care about that?' you'd rightly complain about people trying to change the subject.


I think it just depends on who’s saying it. Everybody’s intentions are a bit different. I certainly don’t want the BLM campaign against police brutality or racism against black people in general to lose momentum at all.

I just think that when we’re capable of putting pressure on governments, businesses and society at large to enact positive change in this manner, we should also remember to use this collective power next time we spot this kind of oppression anywhere else at all; not just solely focus on the specific instances that the media and social media give the most attention to, which are very West-centric, and then pass over the rest of them.
yo my boy joey salads made a social experiment
Reply 32
Original post by tazarooni89
I just think that when we’re capable of putting pressure on governments, businesses and society at large to enact positive change in this manner, we should also remember to use this collective power next time we spot this kind of oppression anywhere else at all; not just solely focus on the specific instances that the media and social media give the most attention to, which are very West-centric, and then pass over the rest of them.

The dream of an international humanism has been staggering since the rise of populists and nationalists - the killing of an independent DfID is just the latest blow. However, it is still the Western human rights organisations that have been giving attention to just about every problematic issue around the world, including Uigurs and Palestinians among many others who are even more ignored.

The truth is that human capacity for caring is limited and requires real effort to expand it beyond local or tribal concerns. But the fact remains that it is the West (specifically liberal democracies, even with all their shortcomings, hypocrisies and power plays) who have done more to maximise this than any other societies.
Original post by Ascend
The dream of an international humanism has been staggering since the rise of populists and nationalists - the killing of an independent DfID is just the latest blow. However, it is still the Western human rights organisations that have been giving attention to just about every problematic issue around the world, including Uigurs and Palestinians among many others who are even more ignored.

The truth is that human capacity for caring is limited and requires real effort to expand it beyond local or tribal concerns. But the fact remains that it is the West (specifically liberal democracies, even with all their shortcomings, hypocrisies and power plays) who have done more to maximise this than any other societies.


That’s great if human rights organisations are looking to change this, and to address human rights violations which occur outside of their immediate cultural or geographic vicinity.

My point is that this is an effort we all need to consciously make as individuals; to care about people who don’t necessarily look like us, aren’t culturally similar to us, aren’t from the same geographic origins as us etc. rather than just thinking it’s Amnesty International or someone else’s problem. I’d have thought that, whilst it seems to be quite specific to Black people in the West, this is exactly what BLM is trying to teach us as well.

In my view it is precisely because we are failing to do this as individuals that things like populism and right-wing nationalism are being allowed to rise at all. Tribalism may be a natural human/animal instinct, but it is anathema to the success of civilisation; a remnant from eras that we’re trying to progress from rather than revert back to.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by tazarooni89
That’s great if human rights organisations are looking to change this, and to address human rights violations which occur outside of their immediate cultural or geographic vicinity.

My point is that this is an effort we all need to consciously make as individuals; to care about people who don’t necessarily look like us, aren’t culturally similar to us, aren’t from the same geographic origins as us etc. rather than just thinking it’s Amnesty International or someone else’s problem. I’d have thought that, whilst it seems to be quite specific to Black people in the West, this is exactly what BLM is trying to teach us as well.

yo u tripping hard bro check out saladinos experiment
Original post by Sports10 birthx3
yo u tripping hard bro check out saladinos experiment


I saw it. I don’t really understand what the experiment is supposed to show though?
all lives cant matter until black lives do
Original post by In Time
I see a post about black lives matter, I will forever state that all lives matter and not only black lives. People could deem me a racist all they like, doesn't make it true. If I were a racist, why would I say all lives matter?

You’re right saying all lives matter, because they do and that’s true. But, when people say black lives matter, they aren’t saying white lives don’t, they are just saying that currently police brutality happens less to white people and more often (and more violently) to blacks. They are saying that for all lives to matter, black lives needs to matter also because the brutality made it seem as if only white lives matter.
Reply 38
Original post by tazarooni89
That’s great if human rights organisations are looking to change this, and to address human rights violations which occur outside of their immediate cultural or geographic vicinity.

My point is that this is an effort we all need to consciously make as individuals; to care about people who don’t necessarily look like us, aren’t culturally similar to us, aren’t from the same geographic origins as us etc. rather than just thinking it’s Amnesty International or someone else’s problem. I’d have thought that, whilst it seems to be quite specific to Black people in the West, this is exactly what BLM is trying to teach us as well.

In my view it is precisely because we are failing to do this as individuals that things like populism and right-wing nationalism are being allowed to rise at all. Tribalism may be a natural human/animal instinct, but it is anathema to the success of civilisation; a remnant from eras that we’re trying to progress from rather than revert back to.

I agree with everything you've said. Unfortunately, the popular proponents of "all lives matter" don't seem to share in this beautiful vision and are instead purely reacting against the concentrated efforts of BLM. Tribe vs tribe.

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