Who should we honour with statues in place of the 80 statues on the hit-list?

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wheelbarrow-man
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#1
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#1
I'm interested in hearing imaginative suggestions for British and/or foreign figures - living or dead - who you believe would be appropriate replacements for Winston Churchill, Queen Victoria, Sir Robert Peel, et al.
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ecolier
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Teletubbies

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Last edited by ecolier; 1 year ago
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Woody102
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spongebob
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username5170274
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(Original post by wheelbarrow-man)
I'm interested in hearing imaginative suggestions for British and/or foreign figures - living or dead - who you believe would be appropriate replacements for Winston Churchill, Queen Victoria, Sir Robert Peel, et al.
David Attenborough. 'Nuff said.
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wheelbarrow-man
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(Original post by Freezeonaut)
David Attenborough. 'Nuff said.
I'm sure he'll get one, to be fair.
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wheelbarrow-man
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(Original post by ecolier)
Teletubbies

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TInkywinky was apparently gay, which I suppose captures the zeitgeist. However, I don't know his position on internment camps during the Boer War, the British occupation of the Gold Coast, or what he thought of Dipsy.
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artful_lounger
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Well the UK could do what Germany did post WWII when they removed all Nazi iconographia and statues of Nazi leaders, not commemorate notable locations for the Nazis at all (and in fact built a parking lot over where Hitler died), and instead create monuments, statues, and memorials to the victims of their atrocities while also making the history of that mandatory in school syllabuses. Instead of idolising slavers and the architects of Imperialism and colonialism, they could isntead create memorials to the Atlantic slave trade and remember those affected by it.

But the UK doesn't want to remember or teach it's role in the Atlantic slave trade beyond "we said it was bad before America so we're pretty cool right?", and they don't want to memorialise those affected by it because that would draw attention to the continuing systemic racism which pervades British society, which affects those descended from "freed" slaves to this day. It would also require they teach students that while slavery was nominally illegal in Britain, British people still contributed to and profited from the Atlantic slave trade massively in British colonies, which would also require more nuanced approaches to British Imperialism and colonialism that might cause people to think "actually maybe the reason the Commonwealth hates the UK is because we were bad, actually".
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wheelbarrow-man
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Well the UK could do what Germany did post WWII when they removed all Nazi iconographia and statues of Nazi leaders, not commemorate notable locations for the Nazis at all (and in fact built a parking lot over where Hitler died), and instead create monuments, statues, and memorials to the victims of their atrocities while also making the history of that mandatory in school syllabuses. Instead of idolising slavers and the architects of Imperialism and colonialism, they could isntead create memorials to the Atlantic slave trade and remember those affected by it.

But the UK doesn't want to remember or teach it's role in the Atlantic slave trade beyond "we said it was bad before America so we're pretty cool right?", and they don't want to memorialise those affected by it because that would draw attention to the continuing systemic racism which pervades British society, which affects those descended from "freed" slaves to this day. It would also require they teach students that while slavery was nominally illegal in Britain, British people still contributed to and profited from the Atlantic slave trade massively in British colonies, which would also require more nuanced approaches to British Imperialism and colonialism that might cause people to think "actually maybe the reason the Commonwealth hates the UK is because we were bad, actually".
Interesting points. But to be fair, its a bit of an inaccuracy to say the commonwealth hates the UK. The commonweath is quite a thriving organisation which severl countries with no link to Britain have joined of their own accord - Rwanda, and Mozambique spring to mind. Angola (a former portuguese colony) is also hoping to join.
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by wheelbarrow-man)
Interesting points. But to be fair, its a bit of an inaccuracy to say the commonwealth hates the UK. The commonweath is quite a thriving organisation which severl countries with no link to Britain have joined of their own accord - Rwanda, and Mozambique spring to mind. Angola (a former portuguese colony) is also hoping to join.
Image

Believe me, commonwealth countries remember British Imperialism and they do not remember it favourably. Which you might know if you had lived in one and/or had any self-awareness of Britain's past, per my post...
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Woody102
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
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Believe me, commonwealth countries remember British Imperialism and they do not remember it favourably. Which might know if you had lived in one and/or had any self-awareness of Britain's past, per my post.
long live the empire!
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username5170274
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Woody102)
long live the empire!
Based.
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username402722
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#12
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#12
Think of all the things that were invented in the UK, right up to the world wide web. And all the musicians/singers who we could honour. We could have statues and memorials honouring events instead of individuals.

There should also be a memorial to remember all those who have died from Covid 19. Perhaps next to one of the Nightingale Hospital sites.
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wheelbarrow-man
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
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Believe me, commonwealth countries remember British Imperialism and they do not remember it favourably. Which might know if you had lived in one and/or had any self-awareness of Britain's past, per my post.
You speak of the population of commonwealth countries as if they have a very predictable, homogenous view of the world - which could be construed as rather condescending?

To lay my cards on the table, I am white, but I have lived in Zimbabwe and Mozambique for quite an extended period of time. From my experiences people's attitude towards the British here is diverse, perhaps positively illustrated by Mozambique's wish to join the commonwealth. Zimbabwe (which of course is not in the commonwealth!) is not a nation of brit-haters as perhaps you may expect. Of course there are definitely many people with anti British feelings, but there are equally many blacks in Zimbabwe who are ambivilent, or even rather positive towards Britain. I should add that there is plenty of anti British feeling amongst the old white Rhodesians! Additionaly, I have visited angola on a number of occasions, and I am aware that the government is very keen to join the commonwealth. I encountered no hostility as a British person, or towards Britain, whilst in Angola.

Looking at your map, I have travelled widely in Armenia and Georgia (which had British troops very briefly on the ground just beofre the first world war when the countries were part of the Russian Empire- that was very much an insignificant part of the region's history and there is absolutley no animosity towards the British! Elsewhere on your map I have been to pretty much all the european countries marked in blue - and as I'm sure you are aware, most of the British military presence that your map records was not as an agressor, and the modern day people of those countries are often rather positive towards the British. Certainly in Kosovo, where as you may recall British football fans (of all peope!) were welcomed very very warmly.
Last edited by wheelbarrow-man; 1 year ago
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BrDy
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#14
Personally I have a problem with the concept of statues in general really, it's not the most rational argument I'll give you- as I don't have a problem with people being noted in plaques or the history books, but I find having effigies of people really weird? Maybe it's the extra layer of glorification that having a model of you recreated.

People change, values change, new facts come to late. Obviously statues aren't permanent but they really give the impression that they are.

Commemorate their actions, not their face? Write about them, don't just stick up a massive model of them.
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ryukk
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#15
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#15
(Original post by wheelbarrow-man)
I'm interested in hearing imaginative suggestions for British and/or foreign figures - living or dead - who you believe would be appropriate replacements for Winston Churchill, Queen Victoria, Sir Robert Peel, et al.
The power rangers. Let's be honest, where would we be without them?:yeah:
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Napp
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Well the UK could do what Germany did post WWII when they removed all Nazi iconographia and statues of Nazi leaders, not commemorate notable locations for the Nazis at all (and in fact built a parking lot over where Hitler died), and instead create monuments, statues, and memorials to the victims of their atrocities while also making the history of that mandatory in school syllabuses. Instead of idolising slavers and the architects of Imperialism and colonialism, they could isntead create memorials to the Atlantic slave trade and remember those affected by it.
You'll have to indulge me, why would we scrub our nations history in exchange for another countries?
By all means show the warts of colonialism but to make out it was nothing but an evil endeavour that should be forgotten is, questionable.
Never mind the memorial to another countries history?
But the UK doesn't want to remember or teach it's role in the Atlantic slave trade beyond "we said it was bad before America so we're pretty cool right?", and they don't want to memorialise those affected by it because that would draw attention to the continuing systemic racism which pervades British society, which affects those descended from "freed" slaves to this day. It would also require they teach students that while slavery was nominally illegal in Britain, British people still contributed to and profited from the Atlantic slave trade massively in British colonies, which would also require more nuanced approaches to British Imperialism and colonialism that might cause people to think "actually maybe the reason the Commonwealth hates the UK is because we were bad, actually".
Since when does the commonwealth hate the UK? :lol: Bar a few tin pot dictatorships...
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ThomH97
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Naked randoms seemed to be quite popular back in the day, maybe some more of those to physically archive the expanding waistline for future generations to look back on?
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z-hog
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(Original post by Napp)
You'll have to indulge me, why would we scrub our nations history in exchange for another countries?
By all means show the warts of colonialism but to make out it was nothing but an evil endeavour that should be forgotten is, questionable.
Never mind the memorial to another countries history?
It's one of the many falsehoods perpetrated on the unsuspecting public, that the world would be such a better place had the empire never been. Those uneducated muppets in the US wanting to tear down Columbus want us to share with them a vision of a land of milk and honey that was fatally disturbed by the evil white man and that without it the Americas would by now be like a paradise on earth. Of course it would, in their world of dreams...
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wheelbarrow-man
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#19
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#19
(Original post by artful_lounger)
Well the UK could do what Germany did post WWII when they removed all Nazi iconographia and statues of Nazi leaders, not commemorate notable locations for the Nazis at all (and in fact built a parking lot over where Hitler died), and instead create monuments, statues, and memorials to the victims of their atrocities while also making the history of that mandatory in school syllabuses. Instead of idolising slavers and the architects of Imperialism and colonialism, they could isntead create memorials to the Atlantic slave trade and remember those affected by it.

But the UK doesn't want to remember or teach it's role in the Atlantic slave trade beyond "we said it was bad before America so we're pretty cool right?", and they don't want to memorialise those affected by it because that would draw attention to the continuing systemic racism which pervades British society, which affects those descended from "freed" slaves to this day. It would also require they teach students that while slavery was nominally illegal in Britain, British people still contributed to and profited from the Atlantic slave trade massively in British colonies, which would also require more nuanced approaches to British Imperialism and colonialism that might cause people to think "actually maybe the reason the Commonwealth hates the UK is because we were bad, actually".
The Germans rejected their Nazi past, but Nazism lasted little more than a decade and killed more people in that short period than the African slave trade did in two centuries. I KNOW this is not a matter of arithmetic, but the Germans were not asked to reject the very foundations of their history and centuries of their national heroes along with it – they rejected what could be regarded as a brief period of abomination in German society. This is a much easier process. So even if it were conceded that a rejection of 500 years of our history it is the morally correct action for the nation, it will not happen, as too many people will be too passionately opposed. The result would be an increasingly unbridgeable divide and the further enflaming of race relations.

Although I’m sure your views are consistent and you wish each country in the world would undertake a rejection of its historical figures who offend modern standards of decency – many British people will feel like we are being singled out for actions that are ubiquitous across all human history: violent conquest, war, the mistreatment of fellow humans for all manner of reasons. White people are being forced to accept original sin for something that happened generations before their birth, whilst at the same time the misdeeds of countless other murderous empires across human history are strangely ignored as they were committed by other ethnic groups. Why is it that there is a constant insinuation that white people have held a monopoly on conquest, slavery and exploitation?

Is it not interesting that for thousands of years of human history empires rose and fell across the world in waves of ignorance, violence, and slavery - but that we are fixated only on holding the British Empire to account for its crimes. Is it not ironic that this most hated of empires engendered the greatest age of liberal philosophy and scientific advancement human history has ever seen? Paradoxically, this liberal enlightenment that has led to a rejection of the Victorians is the culmination of an intellectual tradition fathered by the Victorians themselves !
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NJA
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