CUG league tables 2021 - winners & losers

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swanseajack1
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#41
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(Original post by PQ)
When I was 17 there were only 2 UK league tables and they were only available in newsprint. Although I did rule out one university because they ranked close to bottom for “quality of accommodation” in one of those newspaper rankings (iirr it was the Sunday times ranking back when they were separate from the times).

But then back then the “brand name” to go for was red brick not russell group

The UCAS “big book” was the source of stats. All focused on student population and the physical/city environment. Plus the careers library (a book shelf) stock of prospectuseseses.

I don’t know where I would have ended up studying if I’d had access to the information now available online.
Wasnt the redbrick what the Russell Group came from. All the older universities in bigger cities UCL, LSE, Imperial, Kings, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool etc.
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PQ
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
Wasnt the redbrick what the Russell Group came from. All the older universities in bigger cities UCL, LSE, Imperial, Kings, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool etc.
London unis weren’t red brick (technically).
Although like RG red brick was just used as a synonym for “old unis that I like” by people who had no idea which universities were or weren’t red bricks.

The actual list is odd With a modern view - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university (Reading for example is a red brick but has never been close to becoming a RG member).
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by PQ)
London unis weren’t red brick (technically).
Although like RG red brick was just used as a synonym for “old unis that I like” by people who had no idea which universities were or weren’t red bricks.

The actual list is odd With a modern view - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university (Reading for example is a red brick but has never been close to becoming a RG member).
These are largely the ones that formed the Russell Group with Oxford and Cambridge and the London ones. I think Reading was part of the 1994 group when Durham, Exeter, York and Queen Mary left to join the RG. Reading also split from the group before it closed down. I will never understand how any group claiming to represent the best universities didnt get St Andrews and Bath in.
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harrysbar
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#44
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#44
(Original post by PQ)
When I was 17 there were only 2 UK league tables and they were only available in newsprint. Although I did rule out one university because they ranked close to bottom for “quality of accommodation” in one of those newspaper rankings (iirr it was the Sunday times ranking back when they were separate from the times).

But then back then the “brand name” to go for was red brick not russell group

The UCAS “big book” was the source of stats. All focused on student population and the physical/city environment. Plus the careers library (a book shelf) stock of prospectuseseses.

I don’t know where I would have ended up studying if I’d had access to the information now available online.
I don’t think league tables even existed back in the dark ages when I was at school... or if they did I didn’t know about them. I just flicked through the ragged prospectuses on the sixth form shelves (half of them missing) and picked out a couple with the nicest pictures.
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PQ
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I don’t think league tables even existed back in the dark ages when I was at school... or if they did I didn’t know about them. I just flicked through the ragged prospectuses on the sixth form shelves (half of them missing) and picked out a couple with the nicest pictures.
The first uk league table was the times in 1993. To prove the “superiority” of older universities compared to the polytechnics granted university status in 1992.
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I don’t think league tables even existed back in the dark ages when I was at school... or if they did I didn’t know about them. I just flicked through the ragged prospectuses on the sixth form shelves (half of them missing) and picked out a couple with the nicest pictures.
They werent when I was in school and Poly's had only just started. There were only 5 universities in Wales, Aber, Bangor, Cardiff, Lampeter and Swansea and Treforest Poly now University of South Wales. Cardiff Met was still Cardiff college of education and Cardiff the other was a catering or needlework college.
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
Bath is a flop whose graduates have the 5th highest starting rate amongst UK universities £5000 per annum above Nottingham. It also ranks 5th for graduate prospects. Loughborough is 6th Nottingham 9th. It must be a flop but a good flop at that.

https://www.cityam.com/average-gradu...ubject-go-and/
https://www.gradtouch.com/advice/art...pects-for-2020
Loughborough is a tiny uni 😂.

Sure, i guess Bath could be seen as better... But what do they teach at Bath that they don't teach at the founding Russell group uni's.....absolutely nothing m8.

That's my main point.

Not to mention alot of that data is built upon surveys... Nottingham grads rarely do surveys in general... 😂. Something i found out trying to make £60 doing surveys lmao...alot of work to just get 20 ppl to do it 😂.
Last edited by Realitysreflexx; 4 weeks ago
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Realitysreflexx
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#48
(Original post by PQ)
London unis weren’t red brick (technically).
Although like RG red brick was just used as a synonym for “old unis that I like” by people who had no idea which universities were or weren’t red bricks.

The actual list is odd With a modern view - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university (Reading for example is a red brick but has never been close to becoming a RG member).
It's business school does have the triple crown though 😂... But besides that i find it funny that Nottingham and Leed's are "Red bricks" when clearly their built from white brick.
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Loughborough is a tiny uni 😂.

Sure, i guess Bath could be seen as better... But what do they teach at Bath that they don't teach at the founding Russell group uni's.....absolutely nothing m8.

That's my main point.

Not to mention alot of that data is built upon surveys... Nottingham grads rarely do surveys in general... 😂. Something i found out trying to make £60 doing surveys lmao...alot of work to just get 20 ppl to do it 😂.
Perhaps you need to look into why the Russell Group was formed. It was formed because these so called leading universities feared losing their research council funding to former polytechnics. Why if these universities are so good did they fear this and gang up to set up this group to represent their interests.

The Russell Group really means nothing about standards. It is a marketing body set up to represent these university's interests. Being in or out of the RG means nothing. It doesnt make you a better university if you are in it or a worse one if you not. When the RG was formed it was a group of 17 and over the following years another 3 institutions joined, Then in 2012 Durham, Exeter, York and Queen Mary left the 1994 group to join RG. At that time Bath was one of the strongest of the 1994 groups yet RG decided to take Queen Mary. Bath for many years has been one of the top universities in the UK and in future check your facts before making the kind of statement you did,
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
It's business school does have the triple crown though 😂... But besides that i find it funny that Nottingham and Leed's are "Red bricks" when clearly their built from white brick.
Red bricks is a term used many years back for universities that at the time were considered below London and Oxbridge universities.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Sure, i guess Bath could be seen as better... But what do they teach at Bath that they don't teach at the founding Russell group uni's.....absolutely nothing m8.

That's my main point.
For a small uni, Bath do pretty well. League tables aren't everything as we all agree but they all like Bath

https://www.bath.ac.uk/corporate-inf...nd-reputation/
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
Perhaps you need to look into why the Russell Group was formed. It was formed because these so called leading universities feared losing their research council funding to former polytechnics. Why if these universities are so good did they fear this and gang up to set up this group to represent their interests.

The Russell Group really means nothing about standards. It is a marketing body set up to represent these university's interests. Being in or out of the RG means nothing. It doesnt make you a better university if you are in it or a worse one if you not. When the RG was formed it was a group of 17 and over the following years another 3 institutions joined, Then in 2012 Durham, Exeter, York and Queen Mary left the 1994 group to join RG. At that time Bath was one of the strongest of the 1994 groups yet RG decided to take Queen Mary. Bath for many years has been one of the top universities in the UK and in future check your facts before making the kind of statement you did,
You know you've always had a big flap, and you continue to jabber on. I know everything your saying I'm a Russell Group graduate, who did his private A level foundation at Russell Square, at the hotel they met at. Don't patronise me like I'm some kid whose fresh out of A level.

Frankly, Bath might be a domestic hit, but it's an international flop.

https://www.topuniversities.com/node...-rankings/2013

That's 173 and not ascending....

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...niversity-bath

251-300.... And somehow in the young university rankings?

It's a decent uni, but it's not anything like the top of the Russell group.. And in reality finds it's place in heirarchy of Nottingham at best. 😂
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by harrysbar)
For a small uni, Bath do pretty well. League tables aren't everything as we all agree but they all like Bath

https://www.bath.ac.uk/corporate-inf...nd-reputation/
Yeah Bath is ok, it's a very likeable uni...but it's hardly a global heavy hitter. I will continue to see at as level with Nottingham, to marginally better.

At 173 in the QS
And 250-300 in the THE rankings..
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harrysbar
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#54
(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
You know you've always had a big flap, and you continue to jabber on. I know everything your saying I'm a Russell Group graduate, who did his private A level foundation at Russell Square, at the hotel they met at. Don't patronise me like I'm some kid whose fresh out of A level.

Frankly, Bath might be a domestic hit, but it's an international flop.

https://www.topuniversities.com/node...-rankings/2013

That's 173 and not ascending....

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...niversity-bath

251-300.... And somehow in the young university rankings?

It's a decent uni, but it's not anything like the top of the Russell group.. And in reality finds it's place in heirarchy of Nottingham at best. 😂
Oh stop rabbiting on about Nottingham, it's not that great according to CUG

Bath is better than Nottingham, deal with it and no one cares if they only recognise RG in Germany
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Oh stop rabbiting on about Nottingham, it's not that great according to CUG

Bath is better than Nottingham, deal with it and no one cares if they only recognise RG in Germany
Nope, disagree. But everyone has their own view. 👏👏

But thankfully, we have different league tables to point out different views.
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mnot
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Loughborough is a tiny uni 😂.

Sure, i guess Bath could be seen as better... But what do they teach at Bath that they don't teach at the founding Russell group uni's.....absolutely nothing m8.

That's my main point.

Not to mention alot of that data is built upon surveys... Nottingham grads rarely do surveys in general... 😂. Something i found out trying to make £60 doing surveys lmao...alot of work to just get 20 ppl to do it 😂.
I consider Bath pretty comparable to Notts/Bristol academically in most subjects, Bath has far less high impact research, but lots of UG students aren't there for that (this is also probably why its less known internationally).
Im not surprised Bath students have a slightly higher average salary then Notts grads, Notts has huge undergrad population & large number of courses and this effects the academic standards of the intake in some less competitive courses.

Loughborough Ive always seen as strong in STEM & sports & very comparable reputation wise to lots of RG unis its a bit variable academically & research wise in some areas but in others like engineering (my area) they have an excellent reputation (as does Bath).
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by mnot)
I consider Bath pretty comparable to Notts/Bristol academically in most subjects, Bath has far less high impact research, but lots of UG students aren't there for that (this is also probably why its less known internationally).
Im not surprised Bath students have a slightly higher average salary then Notts grads, Notts has huge undergrad population & large number of courses and this effects the academic standards of the intake in some less competitive courses.

Loughborough Ive always seen as strong in STEM & sports & very comparable reputation wise to lots of RG unis its a bit variable academically & research wise in some areas but in others like engineering (my area) they have an excellent reputation (as does Bath).
I can agree with that .
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swanseajack1
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The fact is that is your opinion and your opinion isnt shared by many other bodies who have rated Bath highly so the Complete University Guide is wrong as is the Guardian and Times. The fact its average graduate salary is £5000 higher than those in Nottingham and it has higher graduate prospects means nothing because it doesnt fit with your belief. The international rankings have always favoured older universities in large cities. Check out Durham and Exeter to see that.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
The fact is that is your opinion and your opinion isnt shared by many other bodies who have rated Bath highly so the Complete University Guide is wrong as is the Guardian and Times. The fact its average graduate salary is £5000 higher than those in Nottingham and it has higher graduate prospects means nothing because it doesnt fit with your belief. The international rankings have always favoured older universities in large cities. Check out Durham and Exeter to see that.
International rankings favour cities everyone has heard of, mainly London because it's London and Manchester because of the football club :rolleyes:
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
The fact is that is your opinion and your opinion isnt shared by many other bodies who have rated Bath highly so the Complete University Guide is wrong as is the Guardian and Times. The fact its average graduate salary is £5000 higher than those in Nottingham and it has higher graduate prospects means nothing because it doesnt fit with your belief. The international rankings have always favoured older universities in large cities. Check out Durham and Exeter to see that.
No your opinion is pressed on by domestic rankings, mine is pressed on by international rankings...all are forms of media. Your not any more correct then i am, you don't just get to take the specific rankings you want to meet your argument and then discount other rankings just because they don't fit your argument.

Guardian is literally about student satisfaction and is a joke.
CUG is ok, but it's domestic....you don't just judge a university on domestic rankings alone. You must look at the whole pie...as one famous european stated you don't get to Cherry Pick.

I could offer an independent tiebreaker......

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...of-bath-506373 Bath at 408....

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...andrews-503328 - St. Andrews 266

St. Andrews is a significantly smaller city and gets more respect. Your myths debunked in live color once again. Let's take it further.

The ARWU ranking ignores alot and primarily focuses on research intensity...often seen as one of the more trustworthy pure rankings.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World...20universities.

Ranking 500...........

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World...ottingham.html Nottingham 150....

Nottingham also has multiple campuses and is a truly global university...China, Malaysia, UK.

Like i said, Bath is a decent regional university, but it is not a international heavy hitter by any means. The UK education system is built upon internationalism, so discounting it, is a false fallacy.

And your opinion on graduate employability might also be unproven with this image from the highfliers research.....Name:  lol.PNG
Views: 30
Size:  123.0 KB

Which has Bath at a respectable 15th and Nottingham at 6.

The guardian is one of the dodgiest sources about in unirankings.
Last edited by Realitysreflexx; 4 weeks ago
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