CUG league tables 2021 - winners & losers

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Realitysreflexx
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#61
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#61
(Original post by harrysbar)
International rankings favour cities everyone has heard of, mainly London because it's London and Manchester because of the football club :rolleyes:
Yet London SouthBank doesn't do so hot .
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swanseajack1
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#62
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#62
ucl 8th London
Imperial 9th London
Edinburgh 20th big capital city
Manchester 29th big city
Kings 33rd London
LSE 44th London
Bristol 49th Big city
Glasgow 67th Big City
Sheffield 78th Big City
Birmingham 81 Big City
Leeds 93rd Big City
Nottingham 96 Big City
Southampton 97 Big City
St Andrews 100 Small Place
Lancaster 128th Small city
York 148th Small city
Exeter 163 Small city
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161BMW
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#63
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#63
Bath is a great university and very highly respected in U.K. Dont get the hate towards Bath I’ve worked with some smart people from Bath in the financial world and it is very highly regarded for engineering too. I’d pick it any day over Nottingham or Manchester for Engineering although Nottingham and Manchester are decent too.
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harrysbar
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#64
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#64
(Original post by 161BMW)
Bath is a great university and very highly respected in U.K. Dont get the hate towards Bath I’ve worked with some smart people from Bath in the financial world and it is very highly regarded for engineering too. I’d pick it any day over Nottingham or Manchester for Engineering although Nottingham and Manchester are decent too.
RR just gets upset at the idea that any uni could be better than Nottingham.

I don't why people get so defensive about the uni they attended, you wouldn't see me getting upset if someone suggested that Sussex was better than Kent :dontknow:
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Oxford Mum
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#65
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#65
(Original post by harrysbar)
RR just gets upset at the idea that any uni could be better than Nottingham.

I don't why people get so defensive about the uni they attended, you wouldn't see me getting upset if someone suggested that Sussex was better than Kent :dontknow:
Or Liverpool is better than Manchester uni for me.
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nulli tertius
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#66
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#66
(Original post by swanseajack1)
I think largely they are fairly accurate but they do need to be looked at carefully. There is no great difference between 10 and 20 so they should just be looked at for advice. However I think they are useful to say if a university is a better university. For example a top 20 university will usually be better than bottom 20.

As far as York is concerned it used to be far higher and dropped down for some reason so I an not surprised it has climbed again.

One of the problems with tables is they use student satisfaction rates and these really fluctuate. The student satisfaction rates in London in particular tend be very low and higher ranked universities sometimes suffer as the higher graded students tend to have higher satisfaction levels.

As far as the Russell Group universities are concerned I think the problem is that students are led to believe they are the only good universities and this isnt true. As the list shows St Andrews, Lancaster, Bath and Loughborough are all non RG universities and all top 10 in the rankings. Just because a university is in the RG doesnt mean it is automatically better than one outside. Royal Holloway and East Anglia rank higher than Liverpool and Queen Mary. One of the things I have never understood about the RG is why Bath, St Andrews and Lancaster weren't admitted when Queen Mary was along with Durham, Exeter and York back in 2011.
Durham, Exeter and York paid staggering amounts of money to join.
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harrysbar
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#67
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#67
Ooh I did not know that .....QMUL too acording to this source.

So it was 500k over 5 years, which according to the RG was “to cover the one-off costs of the expansion and in recognition of the investment made by existing members when developing the organisation”.

Expect they got a few nice dinners out of it too

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/104...russell-group/
Last edited by harrysbar; 3 weeks ago
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swanseajack1
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#68
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#68
Maybee places like Bath decided not to waste money
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PQ
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#69
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#69
(Original post by swanseajack1)
Maybee places like Bath decided not to waste money
Or to spend it on their VCs salary instead :ninjagirl:
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harrysbar
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#70
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#70
If the group get a bit cash strapped over the next year I wonder who they will invite to join next?
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Oxford Mum
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#71
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#71
(Original post by harrysbar)
If the group get a bit cash strapped over the next year I wonder who they will invite to join next?
Not much prestige if you have to pay to join, eh?
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harrysbar
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#72
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(Original post by Oxford Mum)
Not much prestige if you have to pay to join, eh?
Not so much, no - bet somewhere like Lancaster would still leap at it though
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swanseajack1
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#73
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Not so much, no - bet somewhere like Lancaster would still leap at it though
I dont know if they would. Why didnt they join when the gang of 4 joined in 2012. I would have thought that one or more of Bath, Lancaster or St Andrews would have been more fitting than Queen Mary if you are looking to claim you represent the best universities.
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harrysbar
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#74
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#74
(Original post by swanseajack1)
I dont know if they would. Why didnt they join when the gang of 4 joined in 2012. I would have thought that one or more of Bath, Lancaster or St Andrews would have been more fitting than Queen Mary if you are looking to claim you represent the best universities.
I don't know enough about the background of it all to say....was it because they were too small at the time and their medical school only became independent in 2012 :dontknow:

Agree that QMUL seems like one of the weaker members these days though
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swanseajack1
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#75
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Not really at the time Durham Exeter and York were ranked in the top dozen along with St Andrews, Bath and Lancaster. I think the vc of either Bath or Lancaster was the leader of the 1994 group at the time. I really dont understand why these universities joined the RG as the 1994 group was every bit as good. It is probably just that the RG is an extremely effective marketing body and included Oxbridge and the top London universities
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mnot
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#76
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#76
(Original post by PQ)
Or to spend it on their VCs salary instead :ninjagirl:
Ive never really thought VCs were excessively paid despite the hard time they get in the press, especially at research unis. Unis normally have a few thousand employees and manage an organisation head count of 20,000-30,000 people and the biggest unis total budgets are approaching or even upwards of a billion pounds.

I actually think paying an excellent VC £300K a year is worth it, you just need to make sure they are the right person for the job.
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PQ
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#77
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(Original post by mnot)
Ive never really thought VCs were excessively paid despite the hard time they get in the press, especially at research unis. Unis normally have a few thousand employees and manage an organisation head count of 20,000-30,000 people and the biggest unis total budgets are approaching or even upwards of a billion pounds.

I actually think paying an excellent VC £300K a year is worth it, you just need to make sure they are the right person for the job.
Bath’s old VC was paid nearly £500k pa and attracted a lot of negative press around it
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Lightning720
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#78
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
No your opinion is pressed on by domestic rankings, mine is pressed on by international rankings...all are forms of media. Your not any more correct then i am, you don't just get to take the specific rankings you want to meet your argument and then discount other rankings just because they don't fit your argument.

Guardian is literally about student satisfaction and is a joke.
CUG is ok, but it's domestic....you don't just judge a university on domestic rankings alone. You must look at the whole pie...as one famous european stated you don't get to Cherry Pick.

I could offer an independent tiebreaker......

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...of-bath-506373 Bath at 408....

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...andrews-503328 - St. Andrews 266

St. Andrews is a significantly smaller city and gets more respect. Your myths debunked in live color once again. Let's take it further.

The ARWU ranking ignores alot and primarily focuses on research intensity...often seen as one of the more trustworthy pure rankings.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World...20universities.

Ranking 500...........

http://www.shanghairanking.com/World...ottingham.html Nottingham 150....

Nottingham also has multiple campuses and is a truly global university...China, Malaysia, UK.

Like i said, Bath is a decent regional university, but it is not a international heavy hitter by any means. The UK education system is built upon internationalism, so discounting it, is a false fallacy.

And your opinion on graduate employability might also be unproven with this image from the highfliers research.....Attachment 916754

Which has Bath at a respectable 15th and Nottingham at 6.

The guardian is one of the dodgiest sources about in unirankings.
I think you need to take your own advice - you don't get to cherry-pick


You are basically saying that anything that doesn't support your opinion is useless, whilst really, all of the rankings have their pros and cons and it really just depends on what people care about. Many of the international rankings favour large universities in big cities which have a large research focus. Not all universities focus on this and not all students care about research intensity. You can carry on pretending that international rankings are the only type of rankings that matter, but you would be cherry-picking.
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mnot
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#79
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#79
(Original post by PQ)
Bath’s old VC was paid nearly £500k pa and attracted a lot of negative press around it
£500K is high, if they are the best person for the job then the uni needs to determine if the expense is justifiable. I know its a slippery slope and ultimately the executive committee need to make a business decision as to the value of the role but these low-mid 6 figure salaries are worth it if the VC is genuinely excellent.

The VCs need to be accountable and scrutinised but often I find these newspaper articles are just undergraduates complaining they are wasting fees on them.
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IQuitTSR
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Muttley79)
Look at how the tables are constructed and the validity of the way date is used and collected. Anyone that believes these tables needs to take a course in statistical analysis. It is perfectly possible to take one data set and prove two completely opposite viewpoints.
Reminds me of Simpson's paradox
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