Why Civil Rights Activists Should Support Furries

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AspiringUnderdog
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I wanted to discuss a stigma that I see and don't understand being on furries. I find it confusing how people can be so supportive of one group yet dehumanising of another using very similar arguments that they defended for the other group.

My opinion is always going to be that as long as a group isn't one promoting negativity or harming others/themselves I will never oppose them purely for being part of a community.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWCsIkkhFjY

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AspiringUnderdog
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Let me know your opinion
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londonmyst
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Some do.

But the peta 'speciesism' narrative has only been successful in terms of attracting support from the animal rights militant fringes, is ridiculed by most reasonable members of human society and has been very divisive within the vegan community as a whole.
It appear to embrace a fanatical dogma that equates racial supremacy with: having an assistance dog, drinking milk, keeping a pet animal or uttering a phrase like "be the guinea pig"/"bring home the bacon".
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Theloniouss
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Two reasons:
1. Furries aren't actually oppressed
2. Some of those guys actually want to do a sex on animals
3. It's weird
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Some do.

But the peta 'speciesism' narrative has only been successful in terms of attracting support from the animal rights militant fringes, is ridiculed by most reasonable members of human society and has been very divisive within the vegan community as a whole.
It appear to embrace a fanatical dogma that equates racial supremacy with: having an assistance dog, drinking milk, keeping a pet animal or uttering a phrase like "be the guinea pig"/"bring home the bacon".
I think the argument "some do" is pretty unfair. It's the same excuse people use for racism and just a way to belittle a group. There are people in every group that does bad stuff but that doesn't make them define the group.

I'm kind of confused with the second paragraph has to do with this, am I misunderstanding? With regards to Peta I do agree that they do a lot that can harm their cause which is a shame but at least there is the RSPCA doing a good job on this.
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
Two reasons:
1. Furries aren't actually oppressed
2. Some of those guys actually want to do a sex on animals
3. It's weird
1. I mentioned that it is different, there aren't cases of police brutality against them or institutions stopping their rights for being who they are. However I am trying to talk about the idea of promoting a stigma on groups.

2. The point I make is that being a furry by definition doesn't mean you do so to identify them all that way is cruel. People who do sex crimes on animals are not okay by any standing.

3. There's a lot of weird things but bullying isn't okay.
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
1. I mentioned that it is different, there aren't cases of police brutality against them or institutions stopping their rights for being who they are. However I am trying to talk about the idea of promoting a stigma on groups.

2. The point I make is that being a furry by definition doesn't mean you do so to identify them all that way is cruel. People who do sex crimes on animals are not okay by any standing.

3. There's a lot of weird things but bullying isn't okay.
1. There will always be a stigma around pretending to be a dog (It's because we aren't dogs). If you don't want the stigma, don't do it.

2. Did anyone identify them all that way? The fact remains that at least some of those guys want to **** animals.

3. That's true, but nobody really cares. If you make a decision that you didn't need to make (knowing it will get you bullied), I don't care. I'll save my activism for people who didn't choose to get bullied.
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
1. There will always be a stigma around pretending to be a dog (It's because we aren't dogs). If you don't want the stigma, don't do it.

2. Did anyone identify them all that way? The fact remains that at least some of those guys want to **** animals.

3. That's true, but nobody really cares. If you make a decision that you didn't need to make (knowing it will get you bullied), I don't care. I'll save my activism for people who didn't choose to get bullied.
1. Hey well if you don't want to be an ******* on the internet don't be one.

2. Okay and there are people in all communities who want to **** animals, why is that group specifically you target for that?

3. Your argument could literally be used for racism. You could say something like "if a black person chooses to embrace their culture knowing white people don't like it they deserve it". All you're saying is that people who get bullied deserve it. And again why are you saying about saving activism, in the video I literally said you don't need to do anything for them just don't oppress as they aren't institutionally oppressed. But it's okay act like you're smart when you criticise arguments you didn't even listen to.
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Justvisited
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(Original post by londonmyst)
It appear to embrace a fanatical dogma
Today's fanatical dogma is tomorrow's equally fanatical and rigid orthodoxy. Historical examples are legion.
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
1. Hey well if you don't want to be an ******* on the internet don't be one.

2. Okay and there are people in all communities who want to **** animals, why is that group specifically you target for that?

3. Your argument could literally be used for racism. You could say something like "if a black person chooses to embrace their culture knowing white people don't like it they deserve it". All you're saying is that people who get bullied deserve it. And again why are you saying about saving activism, in the video I literally said you don't need to do anything for them just don't oppress as they aren't institutionally oppressed. But it's okay act like you're smart when you criticise arguments you didn't even listen to.
2. Because the community who dresses up as animals and often do weird sex stuff in their animal costumes are more likely to be the animal sexers.

3. Nope, because race isn't a choice, and furry isn't a culture that you're born into, it's a culture you choose.

I didn't listen to your argument because I don't care. Civil rights activists shouldn't 'support' furries for one major reason: furries aren't oppressed. There's no argument that changes that
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
2. Because the community who dresses up as animals and often do weird sex stuff in their animal costumes are more likely to be the animal sexers.

3. Nope, because race isn't a choice, and furry isn't a culture that you're born into, it's a culture you choose.

I didn't listen to your argument because I don't care. Civil rights activists shouldn't 'support' furries for one major reason: furries aren't oppressed. There's no argument that changes that
2. Ultimately I don't believe you actually know that. When they dress up this way there are distinct differences between this, the animals have a humanoid physique differentiating them. When there are TV shows that depict humanoid animals having sex, for example bojack horseman, understanding and appreciating the show does that not mean that you promote actual sex between humans and animals.

3. But the issue I have with this, and is what I explained in my video which you claim not to care about yet argue with anyway, is that whilst they have nowhere near the treatment that certain races being oppressed have, the arguments used to oppress are the same. There is the need to stamp out these excuses so that no group suffers from it. People claim that black people don't face oppression which is a fallacy made by people who don't want to believe or just don't see it as they are able to not be a part of it. By absolutely denying an oppression is enabling. Yes they are not systematically oppressed, they are ostracised by a large portion of society with similar forms of argument. Throughout history people have been doing this to different groups, be it for race or interest as examples, if we have to keep fighting to make people even acknowledge there is an interest the same will happen to a different group, over and over again.

Now, I leave you with this. Either stop replying or watch my video and argue with the points. I'm tired of having to argue points I brought up already because of you making opinions on something you haven't taken 10 minutes to hear out.
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Daveological
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I don't really think we can afford to risk our cause by adding things that are 1) a choice and 2) a niche subculture that is not oppressed and never has been.
Sorry
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
2. Ultimately I don't believe you actually know that. When they dress up this way there are distinct differences between this, the animals have a humanoid physique differentiating them. When there are TV shows that depict humanoid animals having sex, for example bojack horseman, understanding and appreciating the show does that not mean that you promote actual sex between humans and animals.

3. But the issue I have with this, and is what I explained in my video which you claim not to care about yet argue with anyway, is that whilst they have nowhere near the treatment that certain races being oppressed have, the arguments used to oppress are the same. There is the need to stamp out these excuses so that no group suffers from it. People claim that black people don't face oppression which is a fallacy made by people who don't want to believe or just don't see it as they are able to not be a part of it. By absolutely denying an oppression is enabling. Yes they are not systematically oppressed, they are ostracised by a large portion of society with similar forms of argument. Throughout history people have been doing this to different groups, be it for race or interest as examples, if we have to keep fighting to make people even acknowledge there is an interest the same will happen to a different group, over and over again.

Now, I leave you with this. Either stop replying or watch my video and argue with the points. I'm tired of having to argue points I brought up already because of you making opinions on something you haven't taken 10 minutes to hear out.
2. I am pretty confident I'm right. There isn't a great deal of data (find it here), but it seems like furries are at least twice as interested in sex with animals than regular people. Over 30% seem to have sexual interest in furry stuff. Bojack horseman is not a good example because nobody (or I hope nobody) actually gets turned on by the sex stuff.

3. Ostracising someone for their skin colour is not even remotely comparable to ostracising someone for dressing up as an animal and doing butt stuff. If you can't see how those are different I don't know what to tell you.
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by Daveological)
I don't really think we can afford to risk our cause by adding things that are 1) a choice and 2) a niche subculture that is not oppressed and never has been.
Sorry
Honestly I agree and I wasn't trying to take away from that. I'm a big supporter of the movement and I've tried to help in places. I think it's more about considering the argumentative methods that are used time over time in history.

(Original post by Theloniouss)
2. I am pretty confident I'm right. There isn't a great deal of data (find it here), but it seems like furries are at least twice as interested in sex with animals than regular people. Over 30% seem to have sexual interest in furry stuff. Bojack horseman is not a good example because nobody (or I hope nobody) actually gets turned on by the sex stuff.

3. Ostracising someone for their skin colour is not even remotely comparable to ostracising someone for dressing up as an animal and doing butt stuff. If you can't see how those are different I don't know what to tell you.
Can we change the numbers please?

1. I think the data point we should focus on is that "An anonymous survey in 2008 found 17% of respondents reported zoophilia" as being into furry is different to being into animals. This is higher than the average of communities, yes. It is also fair to assume that this could be a smaller number as people can be embarrassed to admit.
I would question if it is really fair to allow such a small part of a community to define the whole community. As long as the majority of community condemns this it should be fine. Looking at r/furry they ban all pornographic content.
You should also consider having a sexual attraction to animals doesn't mean they will harm animals and they are people born with a condition needing treatment.

2. Don't know what to say either, I'm just trying to say how through centuries in history people have used similar argumentative tactics to oppress others and stop progress. Please deny that.
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
Honestly I agree and I wasn't trying to take away from that. I'm a big supporter of the movement and I've tried to help in places. I think it's more about considering the argumentative methods that are used time over time in history.


Can we change the numbers please?

1. I think the data point we should focus on is that "An anonymous survey in 2008 found 17% of respondents reported zoophilia" as being into furry is different to being into animals. This is higher than the average of communities, yes. It is also fair to assume that this could be a smaller number as people can be embarrassed to admit.
I would question if it is really fair to allow such a small part of a community to define the whole community. As long as the majority of community condemns this it should be fine. Looking at r/furry they ban all pornographic content.
You should also consider having a sexual attraction to animals doesn't mean they will harm animals and they are people born with a condition needing treatment.

2. Don't know what to say either, I'm just trying to say how through centuries in history people have used similar argumentative tactics to oppress others and stop progress. Please deny that.
1. at least 1/6 of furries wanting to bang animals is not "such a small part". That's a huge amount of people. It's true that it doesn't mean they will harm animals, but that doesn't make it okay - just like being a paedophile. Should the civil rights movements be up in arms about the mistreatment of paedophiles too?

2. Not even remotely similar. In general, oppression is not "haha you're an idiot why are you dressed as an animal?", it's being killed disproportionately by police. Being enslaved. Being denied the same basic rights as the rest of the population. Those are not 'argumentative tactics".
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
1. at least 1/6 of furries wanting to bang animals is not "such a small part". That's a huge amount of people. It's true that it doesn't mean they will harm animals, but that doesn't make it okay - just like being a paedophile. Should the civil rights movements be up in arms about the mistreatment of paedophiles too?

2. Not even remotely similar. In general, oppression is not "haha you're an idiot why are you dressed as an animal?", it's being killed disproportionately by police. Being enslaved. Being denied the same basic rights as the rest of the population. Those are not 'argumentative tactics".
1. They should have the option to get help.

2. Yes but the video was focusing on the argumentative tactics not the whole thing to make a specific point. You're calling me out on a comparison that I didn't make.
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Daveological
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(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
Honestly I agree and I wasn't trying to take away from that. I'm a big supporter of the movement and I've tried to help in places. I think it's more about considering the argumentative methods that are used time over time in history.
What do you mean?
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certman
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you can choose not to be a furry. you can choose not to buy a £1200 costume, go to town centres and start making the population uncomfortable by pretending to be animals and making a **** ton of noise. you can't choose your skin colour, to not be gay, or to be a male or female.

i'm confident that 95% of furries are either really young teens or middle aged men who suffer from social or sexual issues accumulated in their life. you are essentially trying to make another person with a 'fursona'...

i genuinely believe there's something wrong with people who choose to be furries. something in there isn't right

bottom line is if you're gonna do something like this, i don't care, leave me out of it. but as soon as you want this to be 'normalised' in to society then there's an issue
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
1. They should have the option to get help.

2. Yes but the video was focusing on the argumentative tactics not the whole thing to make a specific point. You're calling me out on a comparison that I didn't make.
1. Sure. Doesn't mean I should care if they're "oppressed".

2. But the argumentative tactics aren't the same if different things are being argued for. What isn't a good argument for enslaving an entire group of people may well be a good argument for thinking they're a little weird. Also, civil rights activists don't care about issues based on the arguments made in favour of the status quo, so I'm not sure why "argumentative tactics" would be relevant anyway.
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AspiringUnderdog
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(Original post by Daveological)
What do you mean?
I explained in the video.

(Original post by certman)
you can choose not to be a furry. you can choose not to buy a £1200 costume, go to town centres and start making the population uncomfortable by pretending to be animals and making a **** ton of noise. you can't choose your skin colour, to not be gay, or to be a male or female.

i'm confident that 95% of furries are either really young teens or middle aged men who suffer from social or sexual issues accumulated in their life. you are essentially trying to make another person with a 'fursona'...

i genuinely believe there's something wrong with people who choose to be furries. something in there isn't right

bottom line is if you're gonna do something like this, i don't care, leave me out of it. but as soon as you want this to be 'normalised' in to society then there's an issue
With your argument you could also lead onto saying that you can choose not to embrace your culture which is the irony I'm trying to point out that this is NOT what we want to allow people to enforce. Also I mean you can choose your gender some people are trans. Also with regards to making a **** ton of noise outside that isn't acceptable but to make it seem like it's the whole group is the attitude I'm trying to dispute. You shouldn't stigmatise a whole group based on a minority of that group.

If there is mental health problem they have I can assure you that harassing and publicly humiliating them will not make them better. Also, making another person is pretty common, people make identities online for a range of things that aren't necessarily trying to avoid themselves.

I think the whole thing is though that you can be left out with them being normalised. They can exist in society without actually affecting you if you choose not to be offended to be the existence of another.

(Original post by Theloniouss)
1. Sure. Doesn't mean I should care if they're "oppressed".

2. But the argumentative tactics aren't the same if different things are being argued for. What isn't a good argument for enslaving an entire group of people may well be a good argument for thinking they're a little weird. Also, civil rights activists don't care about issues based on the arguments made in favour of the status quo, so I'm not sure why "argumentative tactics" would be relevant anyway.
1. I mean that's a mental health condition they don't choose to have, if they're avoiding temptation and doing what they can to behave in society respectfully and not being of harm to others why do they deserve to be oppressed?

2. Also, you can tell me what is and isn't a good argument to use for racism but that doesn't stop the fact that that happens. It doesn't stop the fact that people use crime statistics as an excuse to oppress those who are living as good people. But the thing is you're bringing up systematic racism which I think is different to the point I'm trying to make. The government enforcing racism is very different to the everyday person spreading hate by excusing actions of others. And I think you're wrong about them not caring, there are posts after posts of responses to use for people making excuses for the police that killed George Floyd because of how important it is to stamp out the hypocrisy.

Ultimately the video title was slightly exaggerated because there was something I wanted to bring attention to. However it clearly hasn't worked as you chose to be offended without hearing me out.
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